A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

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A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Jun 22nd, '13, 12:56

Yesterday was a good day - I cleaned my desctop by finishing of a heavy weathering for two mother stock cars and new I can restart my old project with the five "White Swan" reefers. Click my old description of former thread My duff challenge or start here with my last picture

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and my insight, that these models are too low - 2 foot to low! All!
I looked to use the reefer door latch kits by Grandt Line and I disregarded one of the primary dimensions of description - the inner height of these cars with 10' - 2". And this a very great and extraordinary height for reefers and boxed cars generally.
Next problem is come by a discussion with my friend who the models will paint and letter if these extra height is correct in such a train where nearly all cars will have a very similar height? Is the difference to other cars too big for brakemen at their walking over the roofs? Ok, I should build a test model on base of the old cars in order to solve this question. And this are my attempts.

First I built a cardboard model on base of one of my old models ...

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... and I have given it a "basic face" by a bit editing of picture before.

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And so the model will look in train between models of "ordinary" height.

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This picture now should be a the base for my questions.

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The catolog of Seattle car & Founrdy Co. said that this car has an inner high of 10' 2".
Question is at what for points should I set the marks? The floor level is ok. But what is the upper point when I can't see roof construction from outside? I should consider that there are ridge poles, beams and carlines, that the roof will have a double sheathing and an isolation. Where so will be the metering point?
I have set it at highest point for my test model where it could be - at underside of roof edge and so this model is a bit more than 2 foot higher as other models. What do you think? Is this assumption such one which you can accept? Would you define a different measuring point like I have set it on low edge of fascia board? I think that this could give problems because the jump on roof line or walk boards will be enlarged - and brakemen must conquer larger high differences on their way about roofs.
I hope that you understand my problem and interests to build maybe correct models. Can you accept my ideas and arguments? I'm very interested to read your answers and opinions.

I think you know my enthusiasm for my project and so I have played a bit more mit bits and bytes - and as result I have got these previews to models ...

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... also if the cars will have a red or boxcar red base paint.
Last edited by modelsof1900 on Jun 23rd, '13, 06:13, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby gbwdude » Jun 23rd, '13, 00:47

Zier gut Bernhard, prima! I love unique prototypes like this and your level of craftsmanship is outstanding. I'll definitely be watching this build thread.
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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Jun 24th, '13, 16:33

Tyler, thanks. Otherwise, unfortunately, no answers?
Ok, work has started a second time, the bodyies have got a 1/4" sub-construction and that is the value of left side of my sketch.
But now I must grind off all the wood sheating and this a lot of work.

I removed last picture again in order not to break possible rights of third persons. Sorry!
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby Puddlejumper » Jun 25th, '13, 16:55

I liked the cars the way they were, I think I would have left them as is.

However, if you go to the effort to fix the error, I am sure they will look great. As for the roofs, it would have been extremely uncommon for a train to have equal height roofs for the entire length of the train. Keep in mind that brakemen had to contend with flat cars, tank cars, and open topped hoppers as well. The height difference in your reefers is negligible and nothing to be worried about.

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Jun 26th, '13, 04:08

Thanks, Dave. Models make progress - in moment back to the roots.
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Jun 28th, '13, 15:12

First steps of my "white Swan" reefers are done. All sheetings are ground off - and my wife was very lucky with all that white dust.
After them I glued four thin layers under bottom and so car bodies raised for a 1/4 inch - the right dimension in order to get the 10' 2" inside height of these cars.

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Look picture a second time and you can see the light dark boundaries to additional layers below of bodies.

Here yet a link back to the very similar but old picture with the low bodies for comparison.
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Aug 18th, '13, 07:02

Long time back that I postet pictures of my "White Swan" reefers. But the job has taken good progress.

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Cars have got new wood sheating, doors are prepared and first grab irons are mounted. And the base for roofs with fascia boards and end plate is completed.

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In second picture I have tested dimensions of U-profiles for strengthening the end walls, where I do not know the right size. So I know now that I should remove them again and reduce them to 2" height. Next steps are to add a great number of details and yet more details.
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby faraway » Aug 18th, '13, 08:32

I knew you would get it done in your very special "standard" quality :P
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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Aug 18th, '13, 12:42

Reinhard, thank you very much.
But all your diesel loco projects are also very good modeling jobs! And about the high quality of your permanently changing layout I have written already in the respectively threads. Or how we would like to say in German - Nicht von schlechten Eltern! (Not made by bad parents!)
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby doctorwayne » Aug 18th, '13, 14:23

Bernhard, using the prototype photo of the Carsten's car, its exterior height scales-out to almost exactly 11', measured from the bottom of the siding to the upper edge of the fascia. (I based this on the 33" diameter of the car's wheels.)

Carstens Products refrigerator car

I also looked up those CPCX reporting marks in a 1938 version of the ORER (Official Railway Equipment Register), and by that time they belonged to the Cosden Petroleum Corporation, so the cars were likely no longer in service by that time.

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Aug 18th, '13, 16:45

Wayne, thanks for your calculation.
But one question, can you be sure that the picture is not stretched or compressed in one direction. I have looked and studied this picture and I did not find an answer to this question. However if I take your value of 11' for my model then I worked very close to original car. There is only a very small difference - I built the bodies only .01' smaller as I should do this.
In this reason, thanks again - for giving a good affirmation to my work.
And second I would like to use these cars only with my 1900 train and I think that most of all these cars were scrapped after 1930, the time of my second favored modeling time. Therefore no an occasion to run my White swans in my 1930 model train. But from time to time I should ask if I can use one or other 36' car together mit the 1930 cars - or should I build a few additional older 36' cars for this train?
However in moment I'm fascinated more and more by a 60' NP boxcar with two doors which I have found in 1922 Car Builders' Cyclopedia.
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby jwb » Aug 18th, '13, 17:23

36-foot cars were still common after 1930, although fewer and fewer had truss rods. Some truss rodded cars had steel-reinforced underframes and would have lasted longer. However, by the 1930s, all would have had upgraded safety appliances and modern lettering.
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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby modelsof1900 » Sep 21st, '13, 07:13

Small progress with my "White Swans".

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Deatis, deatails and more details!
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And if I do not have enough work, then I do that myself.
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But do you see them nor anything on the first picture?
Cheers, Bernd

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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby tetters » Sep 21st, '13, 09:55

Fantastic work as usual Bernhard. I'm guessing you made the pocket for the coupler deeper (or lower) so that the cars will sit lower. That's my guess. :D
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Re: A second start for my "White Swan" reefers

Postby Steamtrains » Sep 21st, '13, 10:23

Awesome..!! The quality of workmanship is out of this world..!!

One thing for sure...If I had to do all that detailing from scratch...The cars would soon find themselves in a crumpled heap...I haven't the skills or the patience to go about doing that... :oops:
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