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+--- Thread: GEC's Layout Progress (/showthread.php?tid=108)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 05-13-2010
Steamtrains Wrote:'Scuze my ignorance....So I take it the catenary just conducts one "pole" and the ground would be to a rail (either track or third..)? :oops:
that is exactly right, which is why i may only temporarily run my electrics in "true" electric style for fun. While just about ALL my passenger trains will be electric (with the exception of a few NJT diesels), Freight diesels have always done the switching work. Until i can build a bigger electrified layout, E44s running from point to point will be in the future.
Herc Driver Wrote:You're right GEC - there's a few choices of electrics in Nscale...the Bachmann HHP-8 and Acela come to mind, as do the Minitrix offerings of European electrics. And actually, Bachmann's HHP-8 is a nice looking (albeit ok running) offering. I'd love to run an Acela, but there's no way that train could take my layout's tight 11" curves. I've been thinking about buying one or two European electric engines, just to have for fun, and something different on the layout. Cost is certainly an issue, as well as dcc conversions.
Still, maybe one day Bachmann or another maker will come out with several other electric options for us Nscale folks.
I wonder how hard it would be to make some of these electrics in N-scale. I could see someone scratch building an E44.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 05-25-2010
My Silverliner IV Arrived today. Hopefully, i can learn from my mistakes from my Arrow III MU car, as far as painting goes. I let the one Arrow car dry in the open, and now it is "fuzzy" in some light, as dust stuck to the wet paint while drying.
The plan is to do the sides with Alclad Chrome (airbrushed over a gloss black base) for maximum shiny-ness (they are shiny cars, even today after nearly 40 years of use). the ends will be brushed (with a new brush) laterally with Polly Scale Stainless steel. This accurately represents the finish of these cars.
Here is the model with a gloss black undercoat. Lucky for me, these cars use the common "faively" type pantograph, of which i have several spares for used on these cars.
![[Image: 52410and52510055.jpg]](http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9559/52410and52510055.jpg)
Here is the Arrow III, complete with chromed dust. It is still not finished since i need to add lighting. Once lit, i can add the end steps and the model will be essentially completed. Only the unique Stemman pantograph remains to be completed, and i'm still perfecting it. You can see how the paint reflects differently. I couldn't capture it, but it will reflect my hand or a adjacent model the way the prototype would.
![[Image: 52410and52510041.jpg]](http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3161/52410and52510041.jpg)
luckily from most angles, the dust isn't so obvious.
![[Image: 52410and52510051cropped.jpg]](http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8536/52410and52510051cropped.jpg)
Here is the prototype for my Silverliner IV, Reading 9019.
![[Image: rdg9019.jpg]](http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/rdg9019.jpg)
I have the decals mostly collected. I just need to work on the numbers.
![[Image: 52410and52510052.jpg]](http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8033/52410and52510052.jpg)
Finally, i have all the decals to complete my E44A 4465. the Champ set, on top of providing me the Pennsy style numbers, had electric warning stickers on the side, which i need for my other E44s and E33s, so i'll try to get more before Champs goes totally under. Luckily, i have the radio equipped and Conrail patches, so it shouldn't be a tough model to put together, and may actually look the most intersting. You can see in the photo within the photo that 4465 kept its Pennsy numbers and radio equipped decals even into the conrail era (that photo is dated April 1980, about a year from retirement).
![[Image: 52410and52510053.jpg]](http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9269/52410and52510053.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 05-26-2010
I HATE DUST!
this time, i literally sprayed the model, and put it in the box. i go for the second spray, and sure enough, dust and hairs on the model. it wasn't out for more than 5 minutes! and this chrome paint is unforgiving. I wonder if its always been that bad, but you can't see the dust on my E44 models!
If not for the fact that this chrome paint is sensitive, i'd almost rather be painting that last E44A. I need a spray booth or something.
however, the finish still isn't so bad as the Arrow III, and I suspect i can get away with this model.
here is a protoype showing just how SHINY the actual thing is. Its counterintuitive in model railroading, since the desire is to "dullcote" just about everything. Not how it works with modern commuter equipment, and this stuff is reaching 7-8 years of age in this 1982 photo in Reading Terminal. the photo is from a cool site, worth checking out if you're into philly things.
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![[Image: RDGTerm_81_1.jpg]](http://fp.users.fast.net/jprock/images/rdgterm/RDGTerm_81_1.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - ocalicreek - 05-26-2010
It's only counterintuitive based on model railroad trends (no doubt foisted on unsuspecting modelers through the major publications...just kidding...mostly). Basing what we model on REAL LIFE can be different from inherited modeling practices. You go right ahead and make 'em shine. I think it's great!
Not sure how to help with the dust problem...perhaps running a humidifier or dehumidifier in the room a while before painting? Or perhaps one of those ionic breeze air movers?
Galen
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - BR60103 - 05-26-2010
Gus: most electric railway systems used a wire or third rail for the power and the rails for the return. Some systems had 2 power wires because the local authorities didn't trust the conductivity of the tracks. Cincinatti street cars had 2 poles, like trolley buses, while the London Underground has an outside power rail and an inside power rail. Some systems had 2 wires in a tube under the street (Washington, DC). Double overhead wires had to be insulated just like HO turnouts.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 05-26-2010
ocalicreek Wrote:It's only counterintuitive based on model railroad trends (no doubt foisted on unsuspecting modelers through the major publications...just kidding...mostly). Basing what we model on REAL LIFE can be different from inherited modeling practices. You go right ahead and make 'em shine. I think it's great!
Not sure how to help with the dust problem...perhaps running a humidifier or dehumidifier in the room a while before painting? Or perhaps one of those ionic breeze air movers?
Galen
I also blame the major modeling publications . Its the same problem with all those Amfleet cars. Those Amtubes, even when dirty, are still super reflective, yet every manufacture paints them with that crazy "platinum mist" color. Meanwhile, they go and chrome-plate some Superliners that aren't nearly that shiny! it makes no sense. I've seriously considered masking the windows and stripes of my current amfleets and giving them a chroming as well.
I wish i could fix the dust issue. Its never a problem until i bust out the chrome paints, I think the problem is i can only really spray in the basement, which is horrific with the dust ( so even though i didn't put the model down, there may be more in the air than i saw). True, it was a beautiful day outside today, so maybe i'll try going outside next time. there may be less dust in the air.
BR60103 Wrote:Gus: most electric railway systems used a wire or third rail for the power and the rails for the return. Some systems had 2 power wires because the local authorities didn't trust the conductivity of the tracks. Cincinatti street cars had 2 poles, like trolley buses, while the London Underground has an outside power rail and an inside power rail. Some systems had 2 wires in a tube under the street (Washington, DC). Double overhead wires had to be insulated just like HO turnouts.
Actually, the original Great Northern electrification through the cascade tunnels ALSO had dual wires with separated pantographs. I think after some avalanche they switched over to a single wire-rail combination.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Russ Bellinis - 05-27-2010
You might try painting the model in a box of some sort, and have some Saran wrap handy to cover the opening when through painting.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - ac_catenary - 05-28-2010
I painted both of my Silverliner IVs outdoors on humid day with no wind and still got flecks and it took forever to dry. I used that rustoleum chrome with a base coat of automobile gray primer.
![[Image: 4616023435_34036f3b2e_o.jpg]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3343/4616023435_34036f3b2e_o.jpg)
painted roof blister
![[Image: 4646855501_8a9554be49.jpg]](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4646855501_8a9554be49.jpg)
![[Image: 4616875229_3250359b50.jpg]](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/4616875229_3250359b50.jpg)
what is interesting about that old photo in Penn coach yard of the pilot silverliner IV is that the roof blister grille is silver not off blackish as it appears today.
Im going with the late 80s-90s Septa logo.. I do remember catching the silverliner IVs at Reading terminal in the 70s and 80s That is where I became a railroad Nut
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Russ Bellinis - 05-28-2010
GEC, have you tried the metal film that model car builders use to replicate chrome, stainless, etc.? I used some on a Firebird center cap that had part of the "bird" missing and it is a very thin foil once peeled off the backing paper.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 05-28-2010
Alright, i think i can resuscitate my GP40FH-2, which is a wreck right now. I just got a Cannon 81" nose, 35/40 line cab, 2 S&S F40PH-2 photo etch grills (need to combine parts), Styrene sheets and strips.
What happened to it? This was my first projects, and i blew it up, several times in fact. First i destroyed the surface of the shell (did some foolish things but i was only 15 and new to the hobby then), and then i painted it horribly. then i tried to strip the thing, and damaged the shell more, so i started drilling out damaged details to be replaced with newer ones. This entire time, the sides bowed out greatly.
when it got extreme, i bit the bullet and cut the model up to save what was left. The sides literally curled up after i cut them free, and it looks like the area below the cab is having the same problem.
My plan is to totally rebuild the shell, to the point where only the rear and the roof behind the cab will be the "Original" shell. The fans and grills will be replaces by Photo etched parts and Cannon & Co fans. sides will be styrene sheet and strip, the Cab and nose will be Cannon Parts, and the battery boxes and sill will be made from a spare Atlas GP40-2 sill piece.
By the time i'm done, the model should be MORE realistic than it was when i started out, and hopefully most of the flaws i created will be washed away.
Russ Bellinis Wrote:You might try painting the model in a box of some sort, and have some Saran wrap handy to cover the opening when through painting.
I do have a box, but i think that the dust just permeates. I suspect even as it dried, dust gets in and deposits itself. This time, however, the dust does not appear to be trapped in the paint like on the arrow, and even though the dust likes to cling to the model, i can brush a lot of it off. I think the ribbed nature of the car might be a good spot for static electricity to pull things in.
ac_catenary Wrote:I painted both of my Silverliner IVs outdoors on humid day with no wind and still got flecks and it took forever to dry. I used that rustoleum chrome with a base coat of automobile gray primer.
Actually, gloss black would make a better undercoat, not gray primer. gray primer isn't glossy enough (its probably flat, so that would effect the car's sheen). the cars look "silver", but do they mirror reflect? when you hold them in the light, do you get the right effect?
I airbrushed on gloss black straight onto the shell, no primer (this maintains the smooth finish). Gloss black is the smoothest possible paint, i am told. after that, i applied three coats of Aclad II Chrome, brush painted the ends polly scale Stainless Steel, and sealed with floquil Gloss. This is the PERFECT Arrow/Silverliner paint job. It matches the photos exactly in the way it reflects the light and the color it shines (lighter on the ends, darker on the sides). It looks EXACTLY like the silverliner IVs in that Reading Terminal photo.
It may seem silly, but my Arrow III shells all had a coat of metalizer (didn't work out) on them, and even though i tried to paint over it with the gloss black paint, the metalizer still had a dramatic effect on the Chrome Alclad's appearance, making it "whiter". I'm sure the Chrome Rustoleum works fine, but a smooth undercoat is important for it to be Metallic and not merely shiny.
right now, i almost want to strip my #1308 Arrow III, as my Silverliner IV came out a lot better, but it would be more work than i care to do.
Right now, just about everything is installed on the silverliner except for the light lenses, grab irons, couplers and some of the windows. i was going to take some photos, but i decided to wait until its a little more complete.
[/quote]what is interesting about that old photo in Penn coach yard of the pilot silverliner IV is that the roof blister grille is silver not off blackish as it appears today.
Im going with the late 80s-90s Septa logo.. I do remember catching the silverliner IVs at Reading terminal in the 70s and 80s That is where I became a railroad Nut[/quote]
True, but i checked some prototype photos, and they must have darkened up pretty quick (odd in my opinion, aren't these supposed to be electrics? Or are there intakes up there?) If you like those Reading units, you'll love this thing when i get it together.
side question, where are the horns on these things? just an odd detail i found missing.
Russ Bellinis Wrote:GEC, have you tried the metal film that model car builders use to replicate chrome, stainless, etc.? I used some on a Firebird center cap that had part of the "bird" missing and it is a very thin foil once peeled off the backing paper.
I've thought of using it, and i've seen people use it on "smoother" prototypes. they got it to go around the rivets and batten strips of CB&Q E-units, but i would NEVER try it on my Arrow/Silverliner MUs. I'm not sure how well it would all work out with all the fluted sides. Besides, the Alclad paints seem to do the trick. I'm going to have to devise another way to beat the dust.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Steamtrains - 05-29-2010
GEC...Dust is a fact of life everywhere....We don't normally notice it on the stuff we paint because we deal with opaque finishes, and dust actually gives us a more "prototypical" finish than it might otherwise be. In your case, painting a reflective surface, makes dust stand out like a sore thumb. The only way to control it is to build a "clean" paint room with filtered forced air into it, and a paint booth inside exhausted to the outside, away from your air intake. And the air circulation has to be kept on at all times to ensure it's clean whenever you want to use it. Sounds like something you might not want to do....
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - P5se Camelback - 05-29-2010
G.E.Cab -
Just finished reading this thread from Post #1 ... Impressive! You've come a long way, Young Jedi!
Growing up in Wayne, Pa as I did, I am very familiar with PRR/SEPTA electric power ... never saw a moldy diesel the whole time I lived there. I rode those old mP54 MU "red cars" into Philly every day during the 1965-'66 school year, my freshman year at Philadelphia College of Art. I continued to ride them, although from the Springfield, DelCo station, during my sophomore year at PCA (after four years in the Army Security Agency) although, if I recall correctly, a bunch of them were by then sporting green paint and "CR" had replaced "Pennsylvania" on the car sides. They still made that inimmitable grinding/whining sound, rocking back and forth as they left the station, right after the two quick toots on the high-pitched whistle from the conductor, letting the motorman know all were on board.
[pssssst! Can you keep a secret? O.K. I can recall slipping my little finger in the metal "finger loop" on the handle of the trainman's punce and deeftly removing it from its pouch as I passed him on the end platform as I got off the train one day. On one handle is stamped "PRR" and on the other is stamped "2115" and the punch hole it makes looks like a man's head and shoulders with a brimmed hat on. Yeah, yeah, I know ... it was a terrible thing to do ... I was wrong ... but I've always wondered what that poor guy thought when he went to punch the tickets of those who got on the train in Wayne, heading for Paoli!
hock: 
:evil: 
] That ticket punch has always been my most prized railroad "memorabilia" possession!! The point of all this old man gibberish is to get you thinking about maybe, just so the length discrepancy is not quite so noticable, paint the old classic Walthers stamped tin-side models (I have two of them myself!) in the CR green (close to Floquil's Reading Green (RR183 or new #110183), just for grins and variation. Just thinkin' .......
One day, coming in towards 30th St. Station, I snapped this shot of "Mr. Rivets" from the smoking car's end platform window ...
![[Image: MrRivetsGG-14800.jpg]](http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af349/wwmarsland/Prototype%20Railroading/MrRivetsGG-14800.jpg)
At any rate, I 've enjoyed reading your thread ... keep it coming ... I've subscribed to it!
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 06-01-2010
well, I've added Tomar pick-up shoes to my E44A electrics. I plan to paint Conrail 4465 tomorrow. I have all the deals, so I'm ready to roll. They have definitely increased pick up ability, but so far the weird decoder issues with 4457 have not gone away. will post pictures of that soon.
I do have photos of my Silverliner IV now, though. Its not bad, but i think next time i need to use a fresher brush on the faces. Shouldn't be hard to correct with some wet-sand paper (and i think i can get around the decals). Dust still got on the model, but its on the surface, not IN the paint. Dust appears to be the new battle on my layout.
![[Image: 53108andearlierinthewee.jpg]](http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3783/53108andearlierinthewee.jpg)
![[Image: 53108andearlierinthewee.jpg]](http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3783/53108andearlierinthewee.jpg)
![[Image: 53108andearlierinthewee.jpg]](http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3783/53108andearlierinthewee.jpg)
it looks light blue because its reflecting the sky
![[Image: 53108andearlierinthewee.jpg]](http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3783/53108andearlierinthewee.jpg)
![[Image: 53108andearlierinthewee.jpg]](http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3783/53108andearlierinthewee.jpg)
![[Image: 53108andearlierinthewee.jpg]](http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3783/53108andearlierinthewee.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - ac_catenary - 06-03-2010
Cab: That Silverliner IV model looks very good. Do you plan on installing working headlights and red marker lights. I am struggling with the idea of installing headlights in one car and red markers in the other and polarizing the set.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 06-03-2010
ac_catenary Wrote:Cab: That Silverliner IV model looks very good. Do you plan on installing working headlights and red marker lights. I am struggling with the idea of installing headlights in one car and red markers in the other and polarizing the set.
If you're running on DCC, You can just light it all, you only need a headlight function and two spare auxiliary wires (for the marker lights on each end). you can program the markers to be on or off, and only be on depending on the direction the model is running. I think i vaguely remember you saying you ran with your pans, and didn't run with DCC (i could be wrong), in that case, i think you should still light it all anyway, but not worry about connecting all the lights until you come up with a good scheme. That way, you can get it all done at once and worry about turning the lights on later.
Still, even if you were running DC, there isn't a circuit you can build that would turn off the lights? You could just wire the makers to the "rear" headlight of a directional lighting circuit (and vice versa), and you'd be fine. You could probably even put a switch in the car to make it so that one end is "off" when that end is coupled to another MU.
I found some good small red LEDs by miniatronics, but i think fiber-optics will also work. I'm going to play with that in my Arrow III cars before i use it on any of my other models. I'm told the Miniatronics "yellow-glo" LEDs best represent the headlights on the GE cars, but its up to you.