HOn3 track - Shinohara?

[TrainNut]

I'm trying to design an HOn3 layout based on the Jerome and Southwestern and I've been using a #6 for all of my switches but am interested in seeing any switch variations that are available (#4, #6, straight and curved). Seeing as how I will not be laying my own track, I'm looking for pre assembled switches and flex track. I know that Shinohara makes HOn3 but I can't seem to find any pictures or specs to help me with my design process. As far as that goes, I can't even find the offical Shinohara website (if they have one). Any help would be appreciated.
Come to think of it, somebody even makes dual guage HO/HOn3 but I can't remember who.

[TrainNut]

I just got off the phone with Coronado Scale Hobbies, and they said to wait 1-2 months as Walthers is in the final stages of producing #6 HOn3 DCC friendly turnouts. If I wanted to hand lay my turnouts, they said to use a jig from a Canadian company called Fast Tracks.

[nachoman]

As of right now, your choices for prefab turnouts are Micro engineering (#6 only) and Shinohara (very sporadic availability). ME makes code 55 and code 70. I have used the shinohara in the past, and they work fine, but do require isolating the frogs by cutting rail gaps or through insulated rail joiners. Ebay is probably your best source there, but prepare to pay 20-25 bucks a piece for them. You can have people (Stephen Hatch) custom make turnouts for you on PCB ties - but you stil need to lay ties and spike them in yourself. I hadn't heard about Walthers' offering, but I am not suprised someone would jump in with the newer RTR HOn3 stuff now available. Dual gauge turnouts are Shinohara only, as far as I know. Check ebay, and prepare to pay top dollar.

Flex track - Micro Engineering and Shinohara. Again - shinohara is code 70 only, and ME codes 55 and 70 are common. ME looks much better, but is more delicate. Shinohara is often tough to find, but Coronado usually has some ME. If you are used to laying atlas flextrack, ME or shinohara will at first seem very frustrating to lay because it is stiffer and holds its curve.

I have gone to all handlaying. It takes a lot of time, but is kind of rewarding. Single gauge turnouts using PCB ties are relatively easy to make, and I would never consider a jig, but the dual gauge are a real challenge - and if I had many to do I would consider a jig there.

I recommend two things: 1) Check out stephen Hatch's website <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.railwayeng.com">http://www.railwayeng.com</a><!-- m -->. You can order custom-built turnouts from him for about 25 bucks a piece, or you can follow his tutorial on how to build them yourself. That's how I learned to build them - and it is definitely worth the attempt. 2) Join the HOn3 yahoo group so you can search and browse the message boards. I rarely participate in the discussions (too much politics) but it is a great place to ask a question.

I have a few shinohara turnouts on my old layout that I could measure, but I have cut the leads shorter so I don't think the measurements would mean anything to you. The frog angle is pretty dead-on number 4, and you can cut the leads just in front for the points or just after the frogs and they still work okay.

[Bigsteel]

i do not know about HOn3 turnouts but i use the micro engineering C70 track on my layout and it works great...once you get the hang of it.it holds it curves and doesnt bounce back like others and the spike heads are much smaller causing a few to pop off from time to time.but as nachoman said,they look much better than most.--josh

[nachoman]

Did you ever get a copy of the J&SW articles? Another one that was published about that time was the "San Juan Central" by Malcom Furlow and is a useful introduction to HOn3. One more thing - you may want to consider what locomotives you will be using before you decide on turnouts. My 2-8-0s make it through the #4s just fine, but I have heard some of the brass 2-8-2s have trouble with #4s unless they have been specially modified.

[TrainNut]

Thanks both for the comments. I remember the "San Juan Central" but I can't picture the plan in my head at the moment. I have since decided to stick with #6's as my lone HOn3 engine is a Blackstone and is recommended to go with nothing less than 18" radius. Hand laying turnouts sounds appealing to me but I'm afraid I'd never get it done if I went that route.

[nomad]

TrainNut, I felt the same way when I first thought about building turnouts. Once I started building them, I found it relaxing and fun. It's neat to take some rail and make a working turnout. I need 37 for my new layout, and I am having a ball building them. And, can you imagine what rtr would cost? Fast Track has templates for HOn3 that you can download and print up as a guide.

Loren

[TrainNut]

Yehhhhhh, I dunno. I'll have to sleep on that one. I want to.... but I don't. Yes, I found the templates on the fast track site. I brought one into CAD and have been using it!

[RailRon]

As a word of warning, I second nachoman: If you already have (or plan to buy) a brass mikado engine (-27, K-28...), avoid #4 turnouts!

I learned the hard way, when I I finished laying a yard throat with Shinohara #4s. My two Westside C-16s worked ok, because they have two blind (flangeless) driver axles. But my brass K-28 (Precision Scale) kept derailing on these turnouts. So I had to redesign and rip out the whole yard throat.

Since at the time I didn't find any Shinohara turnouts in any shop I started handlaying turnouts, using the free (#6 minimum) turnout templates and the copper plated PC board ties from Fast Tracks. Now my K-28 (and also the Blackstone K-27) no longer have any problems.

Ron

[pgandw]

Shinohara HOn3 turnouts have sporadic availability. My local pusher, I mean LHS (Custom Railway Supply), has/had some dual gauge as well as regular HOn3 Shinohara in stock recently. Caboose Hobbies in Denver carries the Litco HOn3 turnout line (in addition to ME and Shinohara), which are turnouts pre-made using the Fast Tracks jigs. I know both Caboose and Custom have had problems in the past keeping any of the brands in stock; HOn3 turnouts seem to walk out the door as soon as they arrive. I would call both Caboose and Custom Railway Supply (Colorado Springs) to check availability and place an order if they have what you want. Stephen Hatch (http://www.railwayeng.com/) will custom make the turnout of your desire for pretty reasonable prices and turnaround time, and they are now available with wood ties attached. Last but not least, Trout Creek Engineering (http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html) has the complete line of BK turnouts and track supplies. BK turnouts are available as kits, components, or assembled.

As mentioned, an HOn3 #4 is much "sharper" than an HO #4, especially the Atlas #4 which is really a #4.5. The closure rail radius of an NMRA-spec HOn3 #4 is 9" (16" for a #5 and 27" for a #6, for comparison the HO numbers are #4 - 15", #4.5 - 22", #5 - 26", #6 - 43"). Shinohara stretches their #4 so it's not quite that sharp, but it's still quite tight. So even though the closure rail curve is very short, larger HOn3 locomotives will not like the #4s, and some of them won't even like #5s.

my thoughts, your choices
Fred Wright
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....

Chief Engineer, Wiper, Bottle Washer, and Jack of All Trades for...
Picture Gorge & Western Railway....HO
Port Orford & Elk River Railway & Navigation Co....HOn3

[nkp_174]

TrainNut, since you are reading old articles...whenever you see "Railcraft" flex track...that's Micro Engineering.

You do try handlaying, try ME's "micro" spikes or soldering. My entire HOn3 empire, a 3' section of track, was laid with medium spikes and they look awful. I'd also consider going with Code 55 rail. I really like the look more than Code 70 for HOn3.

[nachoman]

TrainNut, since you are reading old articles...whenever you see "Railcraft" flex track...that's Micro Engineering.

You do try handlaying, try ME's "micro" spikes or soldering. My entire HOn3 empire, a 3' section of track, was laid with medium spikes and they look awful. I'd also consider going with Code 55 rail. I really like the look more than Code 70 for HOn3.

I tried the "small" spikes with code 55 rail, and it split the ties, and the wheel flanges hit the spike heads. The micro spikes are harder to drive in, though, and require "predrilling" of the holes (I simply use a straight pin in a pin vise to "punch" a hole). Interestingly, when I stop by coronado scale models, the guy there tells me most people don't like the micro spikes. Code 70 in HOn3 is like code 100 in HO - with proper weathering it looks okay, but would look better with smaller rail. Code 55 is much more flimsy - so if you want robust trackwork, you may want to stick with 70.

[TrainNut]

Cool! Homework for the night. Thanks for the information guys. This is a whole new world for me.

[nkp_174]

I've had no problems with micro spikes and Kappler ties...no pre-drilling (disclaimer: my ties are O scale...which won't split as easily as HOn3 ones). I found that using needlenose pliers (emphasis on the needle...the smaller the better) was essential, rather than my usual tools. I'm switching to micro spikes for all future trackwork. I did lose far more than when working with the medium variety...but I had too large of pliers for them. I find the look (and their compatibility with Grandt Line tie plates) to just be to die for. They have me thinking about adding fishplates and respiking the rest of my layout



Here is a short stretch of On2 I laid with Code 55 rail and micro spikes. I'm making the provision for a short stretch of On2 along the mainline. Also pictured is the mainline with Code 100 rail/medium spikes, old HOn3 track with C70/medium/Kappler contour ties, and the C55 nscale flex track which served as the source for my On2 rail.

No, the On2 is not much of a diversion. I've long had a couple On2 cars...as well as a B-man Porter which I've been planning to convert to On2. I just had a bunch of 5'6" ties leftover from shortening some switch ties...and decided that I need to prepare for the On2 option before the scenery is in place. This was my test track.

You can experiment with C55 hand laying quite easily...especially with the soldering approach. Just buy some C55 N scale track and swipe the rail. I do think that Kevin is probably in the majority view on the rail size...but I really like C55 rail.