What dont you like about this hobby

[MountainMan]

How many times does the exact same railroad need to be re-modeled?

Which railroad would that be? I want to make sure I don't model it...

Denver & Rio Grand
Pennsy

[eightyeightfan1]

Modellers who whine.

The guys who complain about new releases because it does not 100% match the one unit that his/her favourite railroad used to run. You know the type....

[/b]

One...Two....Three.....Oh..Sorry..I was counting the rivets on my welded seam boxcar.

I guess what I'm trying to say is rivet counters. No one can ruin a party like them guys. Its like your parents coming home from vacation when your having a full blown house party. Who cares what kind of paint scheme I have on my locos, how many rivets are holding my boxcar together, not to mention that they aren't to scale. Model railroading is suppose to be fun.
Making sure rivet counts are right, changing fans on locos because they are"two scale inches too small", can't be all that fun.
But hey...Two each his own.

Ok....I'm done.

[yellowlynn]

88fan, I'm with you, to each his own. I don't mean to grouse, or sound sarcastic when I read about having the wrong horns, or sun shades and such. I kind of skip over it, but truly marvel at the fact that they know the difference. It just amazes me. But it really doesn't bother me because all I know is I can tell the difference between a steamer and a diesel, and that is it.

The only way any of them would bother me would be to sneer or run down someone elses work. There is no problem here, because EVERYONE holds to the high standard on Big Blue. That is exactly why this forum will ALWAYS be the best.

Lynn

[sgtcarl1]

[Brakie]

88fan, I'm with you, to each his own. I don't mean to grouse, or sound sarcastic when I read about having the wrong horns, or sun shades and such. I kind of skip over it, but truly marvel at the fact that they know the difference. It just amazes me. But it really doesn't bother me because all I know is I can tell the difference between a steamer and a diesel, and that is it.

The only way any of them would bother me would be to sneer or run down someone elses work. There is no problem here, because EVERYONE holds to the high standard on Big Blue. That is exactly why this forum will ALWAYS be the best.

Lynn

I still fail to see the logic of ripping a excellent locomotive because of a minor detail boo-boo or a missing tiny detail part you can't see under normal viewing.I still feel a lot of those guys are blowing smoke while playing the roll of 'super modeler'.

[MountainMan]

We don't see the choice of "unlettered" nearly as much as we used to. In N-scale, almost never, especially for locos. I asked the N-Scale Sleeping Buddha at the Caboose, but he could only mumble and renew his claim to ignorance of all things N-scale.

"I guess nobody buys them", he finally opined.

"How could they?" I responded. "You haven't had any for the last two years."

"Oh..."

[Sumpter250]

Missing parts, rivets ?, wrong generator ? wrong place for the headlight ?
Oh, those were removed or relocated during the last overhaul.

Rivet counting: This should always be a planning tool. It should never be a critiquing tool.

Most of my equipment is "under detailed", because it gets packed, unpacked, handled, constantly, going to shows with the modules, and bringing them all back home (The bridge tender's shack for the vertical lift bridges on my old modules, self detached, falling down the stairs and creating a spectacular pattern of broken parts on the basement floor).
Transportation is detail unfriendly.
Finer detail, lasts an average of 1.03265 * handlings, so I don't bother to add it to most things.
I have, however, known what that detail is before the project is started. Its abscence on the finished product, is a matter of choice, not lack of skill.





* This is based on the statistical life span of all details lost in handling, packing, or unpacking.
(and if you believe that, I have this bridge.... )

[Gary S]

...detail... Its abscence on the finished product, is a matter of choice, not lack of skill.

I'm going with that one too!

[Triplex]

Lack of diversity among modelers. Face it, go to a train show and 90% of people there fit a certain age/sex/socioeconomic and sometimes political demographic. It happens with many hobbies, and I am not sure why that is. But, I think model railroading could use more input from women and the younger crowd, as well as from different cultures. New perspectives could keep things fresh and exciting.

As noted, non-US modellers certainly do exist; there are far more Japanese modellers, in both absolute and relative terms, than American. I don't know how the German or British numbers compare to the American. Yes, the different countries' modellers don't completely mix online, but they do interact.

The rest of it, though, seems to be true. Among American modellers, most are white, male and politically conservative. I often find this environment oppressive.

A couple others, in declining order of annoyance:

Nostalgia. I notice an unhealthy level of it among American and British modellers. German modellers are also nostalgic, but in a more sustainable way. Many more Germans than Americans model times before their own lifetimes, or indeed before most people alive today were born. That is, there isn't such a peak of 1950s modelling. Japanese mainly model the modern era.
Note that I have nothing against people modelling past times. It's a statistical thing.

Provincialism. Modellers focus on local railroads, and their interests are determined heavily by what they've personally experienced in rather simple ways. I don't hold this against anyone individually. It's just disappointing that many smaller prototypes with interesting characteristics are rarely considered by modellers far from those places.

[Gary S]

Among American modellers, most are white, male and politically conservative. I often find this environment oppressive.

Interesting. In what ways do you feel you are oppressed?

[scubadude]

....I would also like to know where you got your data about the demographics, etc of the modeling masses. I would guess any group or culture of people, whether they are modelers, baseball players, scuba divers or any other grouping would represent the same cross-section of people, given that you observe enough of them.

How you react to an "oppressive environment" is on you, not the environment.

[nachoman]

As noted, non-US modellers certainly do exist; there are far more Japanese modellers, in both absolute and relative terms, than American. I don't know how the German or British numbers compare to the American. Yes, the different countries' modellers don't completely mix online, but they do interact.

I didn't mean to imply that most modelers are North American, but in a given region the demographic is the same. I haven't been to germany, but I assume that model railroaders are similar over there, just German. I am just pointing out that someone who does not fit the standard demographic for model railroader is the person who would bring new ideas to the hobby. I'm not just talking about new scenery techniques and such, but new ways to look at a model trains. I am talking about the "gee, I would have never thought of that" or "thats an angle I would have never considered" reactions.

[MountainMan]

Lack of diversity among modelers. Face it, go to a train show and 90% of people there fit a certain age/sex/socioeconomic and sometimes political demographic. It happens with many hobbies, and I am not sure why that is. But, I think model railroading could use more input from women and the younger crowd, as well as from different cultures. New perspectives could keep things fresh and exciting.

As noted, non-US modellers certainly do exist; there are far more Japanese modellers, in both absolute and relative terms, than American. I don't know how the German or British numbers compare to the American. Yes, the different countries' modellers don't completely mix online, but they do interact.

The rest of it, though, seems to be true. Among American modellers, most are white, male and politically conservative. I often find this environment oppressive.

A couple others, in declining order of annoyance:

Nostalgia. I notice an unhealthy level of it among American and British modellers. German modellers are also nostalgic, but in a more sustainable way. Many more Germans than Americans model times before their own lifetimes, or indeed before most people alive today were born. That is, there isn't such a peak of 1950s modelling. Japanese mainly model the modern era.
Note that I have nothing against people modelling past times. It's a statistical thing.



Provincialism. Modelers focus on local railroads, and their interests are determined heavily by what they've personally experienced in rather simple ways. I don't hold this against anyone individually. It's just disappointing that many smaller prototypes with interesting characteristics are rarely considered by modellers far from those places.

What is wrong with "nostalgia", or "historical interest in the past", if you prefer, and how is it a "statistical thing"? Think of it this way - if it weren't for the "nostalgia", there would be no history left anywhere.

"Provincialism" is an interesting concept, but the real question is why those who live in areas with interesting shortlines and ghost railroads don't model them instead of the big, modern layouts that everyone else seems to model? Lack of available equipment and rolling stock? Too much trouble to convert? Too much research? This issue, to me, is on a par with why Germans, Dutch, Australians and others want to model American railroads instead of their own history?

[Ralph]

A couple others, in declining order of annoyance:

Nostalgia. I notice an unhealthy level of it among American and British modellers. German modellers are also nostalgic, but in a more sustainable way. Many more Germans than Americans model times before their own lifetimes, or indeed before most people alive today were born. That is, there isn't such a peak of 1950s modelling. Japanese mainly model the modern era.
Note that I have nothing against people modelling past times. It's a statistical thing.

Provincialism. Modellers focus on local railroads, and their interests are determined heavily by what they've personally experienced in rather simple ways. I don't hold this against anyone individually. It's just disappointing that many smaller prototypes with interesting characteristics are rarely considered by modellers far from those places.

I'm trying to reconcile your annoyance with nostalgia with your signature line that professes being a fan of the 40-50s PRR. Just kidding, but I am curious about the comment about an "unhealthy level" of nostalgia. Are you suggesting that the American tendency to model the transition from steam to diesel is overdone? Too cliche'?

I imagine a good percentage of modelers choose the era they grew up with (myself included) as early images and experiences with trains can have a profound impact on our interest in the hobby. Interest in earlier eras needs to be prompted by something else; perhaps a movie, a museum trip, memories of an older relative, awareness of history in one's region, etc. Although I lived in the Catskill Mountain area as a boy I did not have much knowledge about 19th and early 20th century railroading there. I later found a book about the Ulster and Delaware Railroad that inclued information about narrow gauge lines in the Catskills as well. Perhaps if I had been aware of this heritage earlier i may have developed an interest in modeling a railroad that ran decades before my time.

I guess my interest in Catskill Mountain railroads supports you comments regarding provincialism. Again, I suppose that an interest in railroading in locations other than one's own region would need to be prompted by exposure to it...vacation trips, reading, films, etc.

Ralph

[nachoman]

The nostalgia comment reminded me of a personal experience... I once took a sketching class, and the instructor had an exercise where we were supposed to sketch a coffee cup. "Sketch it as you see it", he instructed. He placed the coffee cup in front of a camera, and displayed the image via a large screen so everyone in the classroom was seeing the same image of the coffee cup. Again, the exercise was to sketch what we saw on the screen.

After 5 minutes elapsed, he went around the room and selected students drawings as examples for the class. Some showed the coffee cup from an angle where one could see inside the rim, others where the inside of the cup could not be seen. Some had the handle on the left, some on the right, some had the shadows on the right, others on the left. But they were all instructed to draw the same image.

The point was that many people weren't drawing what they saw. They instead saw a coffee cup, and drew what a coffee cup is supposed to look like (from their memory). I wonder if nostalgia and model railroading is the same way. Instead of recreating what was there, we selectively (consciously or unconsciously) recreate what we think is supposed to be there. In some instances this is manifested as "modelers license". In others, it is "selective compression", a side effect of having a lack of layout space. But in other instances we are creating what we think a model layout ought to have - tunnels, high bridges, happy people playing in a park. But that is also the best part about this hobby - it is our layout and we can create what we want, or what we like.