Bachmann Spectrum N&W J Class 4-8-4 derailing problems
#1
I am the unfortunate owner of an HO Spectrum J class locomotive that has never seen a complete run on my pike. This is actually locomotive # 4 The original was a gift as I never would have p[purchased one in the first place but I graciously accepted it and placed it up on a shelf. Well after looking at it for some time I decided to try and give it a whirl. Never made it 12" as the drivers were out of quarter and actually lifted the locomotive up off the track causing it to instantly derail. Sent #1 back to Bachmann four months later I receive #2 place it on the program track and nothing, try it on the test track and still nothing. Problem bad decoder actually fried to a crisp. Send back #2 and receive #3. Place #3 on the program track everything seems ok so far attempt to run it on the branch line and the front of the locomotive is actually resting on the rails. I did a little research and found that the bars used to mount the front and rear pilot on some models were reversed so I tried that, result: a little better but still not right. I shim the front and rear pilot with Kadee washers and it finally has enough clearance to run, in a straight line that is. As soon as it hits a curve any curve (my minimum radius is 28" on the branch line 32" on the main) and the tender actually lifts the rear of the locomotive off the rails causing instant derailment. I have several Spectrum locomotives including 4 mountains, 3 K4's, and 2 Russian Decapods that all negotiate all of my layout without incident. Ah maybe the 4-8-4 wheel arraignment is too much perhaps, nope sorry I have two BLI M1's that run through the layout like a hot knife through butter a pair of 2-20-2 Santa Fe's used for pusher service that have no problems and well lets say all of my big articulated's 12 of them the circuit like Swiss watches. So I now am studying the J class literally under a magnifying glass and see they have some hokey
close up draw bar set up. That is supposed to keep the tender close coupled to the engine and still allow it to swing. Well guess what that don't work for beans. So I get the nice folks from Bachmann on the phone and tel them my tales of woe. They try to pawn me off with some shinny toy like looking piece of junk J class and I said no thanks. ( I had seen one of these in an LHS and God only knows what they came out with this piece of junk. So after much to do they send out #4 well a month goes by and number #4 never arrives. Oh it's on it's way parcel post bla bla bla well guess what I live in New Jersey Philadelphia Pa. where Bachmann is located is less then 50 miles from my house someone could have walked here with it in less time. So the customer service manager assures me that if I call her by 1:00pm Friday before the FedEx or UPS guy gets there she will personally send me out a new one. Well guess what another week goes by after I call her at 1:03pm and still no J class. So I call her on Thursday and she apologizes saying she must have forgotten good thing I called, well I guess the voice mails I left every day and some times twice a day for a week never got heard (Hum?) So Friday am at a little before 10:00am the FedEx man hands me a box form Bachmann industries Yes it's J class #4!!!! hooray................ Worship Worship Worship
Well the box gets opened up and down into the train room we go. You'll never guess what happened.... Nope THE SAME EXACT THING!!!!!!!! Eek Eek Eek So now I am fit to be tied and leave Laura the customer service manager a message telling her that nothing has been solved and what can we do about it I am done with replacing a problematic locomotive with the exact same model as before.
I had to run out to the store and did not have cellphone service for a few minutes during which time she leaves me a message telling me that they ran that engine on 22" radius Bachmann easy track and it ran fine it has to be my track work bla bla bla and that she will be out of the office by 12:00 noon, how very convenient.
So now that you guys are either board to tears 357 or laughing so hard you need to go change your underwear I ask you have any of you had any experience with the Spectrum J class 4-8-4 and if so did you have a similar problem and how did you rectify said problem. Others have told me they experienced the exact same thing and solved their problems by putting them on eBay. At this point a 10lb hand sledge is looking mighty tempting. I'm at my whits end with this piece of junk and the only thing I am possibly considering is eliminating their ridiculous draw bar set up and going with a more conventional type possibly made of delran or perhaps metal. Your thoughts are desperately needed thank you in advance.


Here are a few pictures of the draw bar that I feel is causing all of the problems. Note: it is working freely and has no binding I haven't had the chance to check to see if the tender wheels are in gage or not but will get to that tomorrow

[Here is a shot of the drawbar mechanism if you want to call it that Bachmann in their infinite wisdom decided to use on this particular model locomotive ONLY to the best of my knowledge it is not used on any of the other Spectrum line. A simple prototypical straight drawbar most likely is the answer

[Image: Spectrun%20J%20class%20001.jpg]

[Image: Spectrun%20J%20class%20003.jpg]

[b]You can see in this shot how close the tender is coupled to the engine although a well intended idea it simply just doesn't work[/b]

[Image: Spectrun%20J%20class%20004.jpg]
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#2
I wouldn't hit it with the ten pound sledge hammer......
Whole Bachmann J class locos sell better on eBay then one in pieces.

All kidding aside.
Check the wheels on the tender and see if they are in gage. Also check the tender trucks and see if they swivel freely. Check thhe drawbar also, and see if that isn't stiff, and move freely.There also might be wires from the tender(I'm assuming the decoder is in the tender), might be binding up when hitting the curves.

Just a couple of suggestions, and easy fixes.
Torrington, Ct.
NARA Member #87
I went to my Happy Place, but it was closed for renovations.
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#3
Is there any way you can post a few photos of the drawbar area - especially from the bottom? I will second the suggestion to check and see if it is the wire connections causing problems. Is the drawbar attached with screws? Perhaps one is too tight, and loosening it a half turn may help.
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#4
had one same thing and a 4 lb hammer is sufficient Curse
jim
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#5
Will try and post some pics later on or tomorrow
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#6
Wow, looking at the photos,that seems to be one complicated drawbar! It looks like it isn't a simple pivot on either the loco or the tender. On locomotives that have a simpler drawbar (a piece of plastic with a hole at each end), if you have the screws too tight, the drawbar can't "twist" at the pivots allowing the locomotive and tender to track independently of one another. In other words, you need the locomotive and tender to be able to rock somewhat side to side independently to account for uneven trackwork especially on curves. Looking at this arrangement, I can see how the drawbar can pivot at each end to allow for the curve, but I don't see any provision that would allow for that "rocking" motion.
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#7
Kevin.

Your 100% correct in that there is no play or wiggle room for side to side rocking motion or for that matter if the grade starts to either increase or decrease as soon as the locomotive and the tender are on either side of the transition no matter how slight that transition is the tender wheels come off the rails and inevitably never land back on the rails causing derailments but according to Bachmann it's always the fault of my track work . Sure if I wanted to screw some easy track on to a piece of plywood and have everything run on a level plain then It might stand a chance of running without derailment but that not the way it goes even in the 1:87 scale world.
My question to Bachmann is if this drawbar is so good then why isn't it used on any of their other locomotives?
If I knew they would refund my money or give me an even exchange on a different locomotive then I would lean that way rather then attempt a modification that most likely would work but in the event it didn't now I'm stuck with a paper weight.
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#8
I found a photo of just the drawbar on the bachmann website:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_89&products_id=198">http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index. ... cts_id=198</a><!-- m -->

I can't quite tell from this photo, but it looks like there may be some flash in four locations on the drawbar, on each of the four arms near the "pins". You may want to take your drawbar off to make sure there isn't any flash. Did the locomotive and tender come attached, or did you have to do that yourself? It looks like there are two screws that hold the locomotive drawbar assembly on, and one that holds the tender assembly on. Is it possible to remove the screws and place some sort of a spacer washer between the drawbar bracket and the locomotive or tender body? What you need is the drawbar attachment to be a bot sloppy so that the drawbar can rock a bit.
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#9
Kevin, The drawbar came attached to the tender and yes I do see the four pieces of flash on the drawbar in the picture, they are from the mold risers used during the injection molding process. I will investigate but the mechanism does move freely form side to side it's just that it has no up and down play. If you take any steam locomotive and hold the engine in one hand and the tender in the other you can see there is obviously enough play to move the two independently of each other to some small degree. Not with this tender if you try and move it up or down your going to either snap the drawbar or bend it. I feel as I stated before the only solution that will work is to substitute that poor excuse of engineering for a standard type drawbar. If you look at the only other resin manufacturer of a J class 4-8-4 MTH you'll notice that they use a conventional type drawbar. In fact this is the only locomotive I have ever seen it used on none of their other models use it., so what does that tell you? I have several Proto Heritage 2000 steam locomotives that have a plug connector type drawbar that doubles as a drawbar and a connection for wiring between the locomotive and the tender and they have an amble amount of wiggle room, If I am not mistake I believe Digitrax may offer something similar I'll have to check it out.
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#10
Sounds like the draw bar is the trouble (or at least the focus of frustration Curse ).

I've got a J that's one of Bachmann's 'Silver' series, right before the Spectrum line came out. Runs extremely well and has a VERY simple plastic rod drawbar. That is, it's a plastic pole attached to the tender on a conventional horizontal drawbar (sticks up like a peg). The loco has a wide slot that sits over the peg. Simple, but I'd still go with the classic drawbar configuration, one piece of material shaped like a bone and screwed to the engine and tender.

Currently it doesn't reverse all that well (only occasionally), but that's fine for now, as the whole thing is packed away along with the accompaning Powatan Arrow passenger cars. I used to run it on a modular club layout. The whole train backed easily through a wye and down a yard ladder without derailment except at, you guessed it, the connection between tender and loco. (I attribute the good performance on the passenger cars to kadee truck-mounted coupler conversion and metal wheels)

This incident caused me to look into the J's performance reviews online and I discovered many were having problems with the lead and or trailing truck spring tension. If the spring is too tight, as you may already be aware, it could lift the rear or front drivers accordingly off the track or at least provide enough lift to encourage a derailment. Not sure how the new models are sprung but I might also check there.

One of these days I'll pull out my J and have a go at finishing the detailing job I started. Maybe by then I'll have found or made a home for it to get out and run awhile. Until then, it's in the shop. :| Good luck with yours and let us know how it all works out. I hope to goodness you don't have to take a sledge to it.

Galen
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#11
I had one of those Dc versions but sold it this past winter. That one if I recall had springs on the leading and trailing trucks but the new Spectrum version does not. They had clearance problems not the case here that you have to correct using Kadee shim washers. I have a Bachmann Silver series 4-8-4 Niagara in a box sitting on a shelf in my work shop that I had been trying to sell for some time now I know that has a dog bone style drawbar so maybe I'll have to use it for a template
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