GEC's roster thread
#16
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:
Quote:I always wanted to model one of these units circa 1983, in worn Amtrak paint, with CR 4020 spray painted on the side. there is a photo of one in this condition in one of the CR motive power books, but I can't remember which one.

I'd love to see a photo of that

Quote:4022 is back to being Erie 833 and is being taken care of. don't remember which road has it though.

Cool, thats good to know. Still, it is sad that all the Conrail OCS stuff is gone now. Thats progress for you!

Yes, indeed. The CR executive E units were some of the handsomest around. I'll let you know when I have the decals, and I'll send you a black and white photo with them. If I remember the name of the book with the photo of the ex-amtrak E unit I'll post up.
-Dave
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#17
I was planning on posting more of my modern freight equipment, but we have no batteries for my camera in this house, so i'm out of luck. Also, most of my "modern" stuff is in various states of construction that even though i've probably posted a billion photos of it all here, I'd rather complete the project, then present it. For example, my C32-8 just needs some details on the frame, but instead of doing that now, i'm typing here because i can't manage my time properly :roll: :lol:

Besides, after that massive wall of conrail (it never occurred to me that i owned that many conrail engines until now, and i still have MORE), I've decided i'm gonna go back to passenger trains for a moment, specifically, commuter trains.

First up: The "west" end of the roster, including philadelphia area models, such as PRR, Reading, and SEPTA

Reading Company RDC-3 #9168

This unit is one of the mystery units for me. This unit survives today on what I think is the Reading and Northern, but its been rebuilt into an all coach unit. That said, this unit did start out life as an RDC3 according to reading rosters, but i cannot find any photos. For now, it remains the only RDCs on my roster. I've considered PRSL units, but RDCs are hard for me to justify, they just didn't run where i model, and besides, I have plenty of EMUs to fill in the self-propelled commuter car gap.

If anyone can find me any history on the car, that would be awesome. As a model, its a Proto 1000 unit that i bought secondhand from a member of my club. I plan to light the markers and add other details when i find a photo.

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Reading/Conrail/ SEPTA Silverliner IV MA-1E “single unit” #9021

The Silverliner IV is the main electric MU on SEPTA’s roster. With the Imminent retirement of the former Reading/PRR Silverliner IIs and PRR Silverliner IIIs, the Silverliner IVs will be the last American MUs on the railroad as well. Using Shells made by the aerospace firm “AVCO” and Built by GE, the Silverliner IVs were built during a flurry of new MU car purchases in the Mid 70s, and many other local EMUs share the same “body shell”.

Unlike the other Penn Central and Reading MU cars at the time, the Silverliner IVs were technically owned by SEPTA, but operated by whichever railroad owned the tracks the commuter operations were running on. The Reading Company got a small batch (relative to the huge numbers of Penn Central units) of the Silverliner IVs. The singles arrived first in 1974, followed by the MA-1F “Married Pairs” later that year into 1975. Unlike MP54s, which had a trailer, the Married pairs shared equipment between cars, making them inseparable.

Some interesting Reading Company Only modifications was the use of a cow catcher style pilot (though its not on my model... yet). Reading Commuter cars were the only ones with this modification, the Penn Central Silverliner IVs had standard MU pilots.

This model represents one of the single units as delivered in 1974 with the early SEPTA logo and former railroad herald Typical of the early Conrail era. It maintained this paint scheme (including Reading diamond) all the way through to the end of Conrail commuter operations. SEPTA promptly repainted all equipment with the familiar block logo after that date sometime in 1983. IHP is currently producing the kit in three versions, an Express line (like this one), an RTR dummy with SEPTA block logos for the SEPTA store, and a “Standard Series” kit, which is the most expensive but the most detailed. However, the Express lines are incredibly detailed as they come, and can be done up cheaply to match.

In the future, I plan to buy at least one Silverliner IV married pair and one or two more Singles to create a full Reading Company train. I may also go with some Penn Central units, but the Reading is more unique, and matches the club layout better.

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SEPTA AEM7 #2305

There are six AEM7s and one ALP44 on SEPTA’s roster, and they are in fact, the only regular passenger locomotives on the railroad. The AEM7s arrived with Amtrak’s order for the locomotives, and the single ALP44 came in 1996 on the tail end of NJ transit’s order of the same locomotive.

SEPTA discontinued its diesel operations in 1981. With a few exceptions, (such as loaned NJ Transit U34CHs, one even receiving SEPTA paint,) SEPTA has since run exclusively Electric locomotive hauled Push Pulls and Electric Multiple unit cars, and is one of a handful of “pure” heavy electric passenger railroads left in the US (I think the Chicago South Shoreline is the other).

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Couldn’t pick which picture is better, so I’ll post both. A six car set of these things
makes for a sexy train, and kids always love it at shows, exclaiming “that’s the train Mom/Dad takes to work!”

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Not really a Locomotive, but the cab control cars are important to push pull operations and have all the bells, whistles, and lights of the locomotive. I have two SEPTA cab cars in excellent condition. This is my most recent one, bought from a friend. You'd be surprised what people offer me to buy this train.

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PRR MP54 EMU

The sound of an accelerating MP54 is said to have been “the finest in Juice Tradition” They were the Pennsylvania railroad’s primary commuter hauler. The MP54s were initially built in 1915 as unpowered “P54” coaches, but were specifically intended to later be powered, and the distinctive “Owl Eyes” were built into the cars. Eventually, these cars would come in several variations, and be rebuilt extensively. In a sense, the lowly, mundane blocky MP54 is an even greater testament to PRR engineering than even the GG1, as they were built 15 years earlier, and withstood years of abuse by the railroads, and passengers, running all the way to the end of 1979, when they were retired (along with Conrail’s GG1 fleet), replaced by more modern Silverliner. While many retained their Pennsy paint their whole lives, some got Penn Central dark green, and a few were even painted in SEPTA colors, though I’m not sure how long they lasted.

This model is an In-progress Funaro and Camerlengo coach kit, representing MP54s prior to their 1950s rebuilds. I have an additional F&C kit, and two Walthers 1960s era kits, one coach, and the other a combine. Those frighten me, and are horrifically out of scale, but I may be able to use the pantographs. Unfortunately, with Con Cor announcing their own MP54 kits, there is a good chance I’ll try to purchase several of these. It’s a shame, I keep picking up these unusual and rare kits, and then Poof, someone makes it RTR, and I don’t think I can beat Con Cor’s quality, with lights and motors and everything off the bat. They’re probably ridiculously expensive, but I don’t plan on making a huge train of them, and besides, they are still cheaper than standard IHP Arrow and Silverliner Kits while being more complete. I hope they produce modernized versions, but we’ll see. I’ll likely paint them up as Penn Central or weathered PRR units to match my early Conrail era.

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PRR MP85/MA-1B Silverliner II EMU

In 1958, the PRR asked Budd to devise a new EMU for the modern day (by this time, the MP54s were 43 years old). Called Pioneer IIIs, these cars were longer, lighter, faster, carried more people, and were equipped with luxuries like air conditioning, with roughly the same horsepower as an MP54. However, due to the PRR’s worsening financial situation, no more such cars were purchased. It wouldn’t be until 1963, when the Passenger Service Improvement Corporation (an agency of Philadelphia to improve transit conditions and a precursor to SEPTA), bought 55 new MUs for Philadelphia commuter service. These became the “Silverliner IIs”, (making the Pioneer IIIs the unofficial Silverliner I). Both the PRR and Reading received the MA-1B (of course, the PRR received more, 38 out of the 55 car order). Interestingly, the Reading Cars came slight different, with larger engineer’s windows, among other things. Aside from the Metroliners, Budd would not make another Heavy Electric MU

The Models are made by GEM brass, and truthfully, they aren’t faithful to the prototype. However, they still look good on the layout, which is the important part I guess. I hope to get them running reasonably some day. I bought the pair in total for $40, an incredible deal considering these pairs usually go for five times that much.

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The next installment will be NJ transit
Modeling New Jersey Under the Wire 1978-1979.  
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#18
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote: ... PRR MP54 EMU ... The sound of an accelerating MP54 is said to have been “the finest in Juice Tradition”

The two little whistle toots from the trainman on the vestiule platform would signal the motorman who, clicking up from one notch to the next, caused the old traction motors to emit a stepped "growl" as the car groaned, rolled forward and often rocked side-to-side as it pulled from the Wayne station, heading for the stop at St. Davids, about a mile closer in towards Philly is a sound that I can still hear in my head, and still mimic with my voice! Just thinking about that sound brings a faint smile to my face.

I rode the "red cars" (even when they were dark green and lettered PC, they were the "red cars") for a couple of decades ... they were great! I missed them when the Silverliners started replacing them ... boring! The toots on the whistle became two buzzes and the car would silently glide away. Very boring!

People would tell you that as the train would leave the station stop before yours, that's the time to get up and head towards the vestibule, as, if no one was prepared to get off and there was no one on the platform, the trainman would do the two "toots" before the train was at a complete stop ... they would only "pause." Big Grin :lol:
biL
Lehigh Susquehanna & Western


"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln

Food for Thought
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#19
9168 was one of the latecomers to the Reading, purchased second-hand from the Boston & Maine. It was actually OLDER than the units built specifically for the Reading, having been built in 1958 or so. The Reading's original RDCs were some of the last ones built, in 1963. I think there's more in Bert Pennypacker's Reading Power Pictorial but I don't have my copy handy.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
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#20
Took a look on my shelf, Randy, thinking I had a copy , but mine is "Bert's Book" Number One, Eastern Steam Pictorial ... no Mu's or RDC's. However, In Paul Carlton's Memories of Reading Company Power there are some of both of the aforementioned units, but the closest I could find was several photos of RDC-1's 9151 ans 9163. There is one photo of an RDC-3 leaving Newark with an RDC-1 in tow, but the front of the unit is in such shadow that the number in not visible. :x :roll:

Sorry ... thought I was going to be able to offer assistance from my library of Reading Company and other eastern Pennsylvania railroad reference books, but ... :?: :|
biL
Lehigh Susquehanna & Western


"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln

Food for Thought
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#21
Yes, I believe the original edition of Pennypacker's book was "Reading Steam Power Pictorial", I have the later edition that has a few pages on diesels as well. Of course the information on the RDCs might be in a totally different book. In fact it is LOL. On a hunch I grabbed the next to last issue off the Bee Line (magazine of the RCT&HS), Vol 30 #8 which is the one that has an article on RDCs.
The ones Budd built for the Reading were not some of the last, they were THE last RDCs built. The very last was 9152 which the RCT&HS now has. 9164 and 9165 were purchased fromthe B&M in 1965, and 9166 came from the B&M in 1966. 9165 and 9166 were RDC2's, but the Reading converted the baggage section to a snack bar in both cars.
9168 is a fantasy, never a Reading car. It was NYC M499, then PC99 and through a few other owners before landing on the RBMN and ending up 9168.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
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#22
:lolol:
You know ... I couldn't have told you the name of that book without getting it off the shelf ...

... we just always referred to it as ...
"Bert's Book," and it was considered the bible! Big Grin

But, good Lord, GEC you've got so much motive power ... can you have them all physically on the layout at the same time? I mean PRR, RDG, PC, SEPTA, NJTransit, Conrail ... sounds like a scheduling and maintenance nightmare ... and probably more than a couple display shelves.

GEC Wrote: ... Walthers 1960s era kits, one coach, and the other a combine. Those frighten me, and are horrifically out of scale ...

I have a pair of the old Walthers mP54 kits (an early one in a grey and white striped box - powered by a very low-tech Hyatt power truck - and the second, newer one in a blue and white striped box) that I built during a couple weeks of evenings spent in the barracks up at Ft Devens, MA, using the top of my footlocker as a workbench back during a blizzard and the nasty aftermath in about the winter of 1967, or maybe '68, all brush-painted Tuscan Red tin car sides and everything ... I always thought they looked pretty nice (for the time period and my skill level at the time) and felt pretty good about building them, especially under the conditions and consequences that I did (I mean, they and all tools, parts, paint bottles, etc. had to "disappear" by morning inspection ... I mean totally vanish or be confiscated!) ... but I never did measure them and compare them against dimensioned drawings. In what areas are they out of scale ... just so I can be critical the next time I open the boxes and unwrap the layers of tissue? Big Grin 8-)
biL
Lehigh Susquehanna & Western


"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln

Food for Thought
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#23
rrinker Wrote:9168 is a fantasy, never a Reading car. It was NYC M499, then PC99 and through a few other owners before landing on the RBMN and ending up 9168.
--Randy

Well, that explains a lot. I thought i saw 9168 on a roster somewhere, but i can't find it now. well, gonna have to find something to do with this then. the only other similar cars have totally different ends on them.

P5se Camelback Wrote:But, good Lord, GEC you've got so much motive power ... can you have them all physically on the layout at the same time? I mean PRR, RDG, PC, SEPTA, NJTransit, Conrail ... sounds like a scheduling and maintenance nightmare ... and probably more than a couple display shelves.

I've been collecting over the years, and i never get rid of anything. When i was young,i'd buy anything cool, then i switched to sticking to the Northeast (conrail, NJT, Amtrak), but then i couldn't settle on a time frame. I wanted to model what i knew, but GG1s, E44s, and that early conrail period caught my attention. While i now stick to that early conrail period (which most of my conrail roster works with), I still buy both time periods. my last big purchase saw three modern SEPTA cars and a Lehigh Valley RS2. before that, i purchased an Amtrak GG1 and a power frame for the ALP46 engine of today. I think though, that i am doing a better jobo of sticking to my time period. I no longer own a Penn Central unit, but i DID have one E44 that came painted that way, but i stripped it. That is an Alco brass model and i don't tend to count it in my roster, since compared to my Alphas, it looks ridiculous.

I don't have to much scheduling issues, if i want to run a U23B instead of my GP40-2, i just swap them out. Maintenance isn't a problem because a lot of stuff doesn't have DCC decoders in them yet, and so they don't run. Most of my operating fleet of engines are high-end Atlas, Broadway Limited, and nicer Athearns.

The real problem is getting everything up to date. many engines i have are really nice (my P2k SD9 comes to mind), but i don't have a decoder for it so it doesn't go anywhere. Half my fleet of 70 "operating" engines ( I have more locomotives that are outdated, ancient, or beyond repair that i don't count).

I don't think they'd all fit. Here is a picture of just all the electrics i owned back in 2006 (not counting my now larger fleet). There are more metroliners and some stuff that is so far back all you can see is the pantograph.

[Image: 122307010.jpg]

Quote:I have a pair of the old Walthers mP54 kits (an early one in a grey and white striped box - powered by a very low-tech Hyatt power truck - and the second, newer one in a blue and white striped box) ... but I never did measure them and compare them against dimensioned drawings. In what areas are they out of scale ... just so I can be critical the next time I open the boxes and unwrap the layers of tissue? Big Grin 8-)

LOL, yeah, i have the gray and white boxed ones. For one thing, they are too long (by a lot, they're MP54s because they are 54 feet long). the Rivets are all wrong, they lack side vents, the sides are disproportionate. They don't look bad when they are built if you do a good job, but compared to scale pieces, they can't match. which sucked, i thought i'd run myself a 4 car set of MP54s.
Modeling New Jersey Under the Wire 1978-1979.  
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#24
There's a 9168, as well as 9186 and 9176, and 9170 and 71 listed on the roster on the Northeast Rails site. There are even pictures of the supposed 9186 and 9176 - RDCs with Reading paint, but you can't read the number boards. Where someone got the idea that those were the numbers I have no clue.

As a side note, whatever North East Rails has done to get their pages excluded from search engines has worked. Their site does not show up in Google or Yahoo searches using common terms appearing on the page in question, such as "reading diesel roster". Top hits are a site that really makes me wonder although my AV/Anti Spyware detected no problems with the site, it is mostly ads with a narrow column of text and pictures of Reading locos with fairly accurate information and then a link to the North East Rails site for more information. Odd.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
http://www.readingeastpenn.com
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#25
That is such an interesting collection of electric units! Very interesting history too. Really nice! :tada:

(And I still wish they made those engines in Nscale!)
Mark

Citation Latitude Captain
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Lt Colonel, USAF (Retired)
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#26
rrinker Wrote:There's a 9168, as well as 9186 and 9176, and 9170 and 71 listed on the roster on the Northeast Rails site. There are even pictures of the supposed 9186 and 9176 - RDCs with Reading paint, but you can't read the number boards. Where someone got the idea that those were the numbers I have no clue.
--Randy

Thats where i saw it. Perhaps someone assumed that Walthers/lifelike did their homework. On the topic of the Reading cars, i've been thinking of digging up cheap Athearn shells and splicing them together to make a full-length car with a more accurate "face". anyone try that yet?

Herc Driver Wrote:That is such an interesting collection of electric units! Very interesting history too. Really nice! :tada:

(And I still wish they made those engines in Nscale!)

Well, there are Metroliner EMUs in N-scale, AND repower kits for them to make them run nice. It might not be a bad idea to pick some up if you find them. Together with GG1s and E60CPs, you could realistically model amtrak operations on the Northeast Corridor in the Penn Central/Conrail era.

It looks like only those rectifiers (E33, E44) and AEM7s are the only one of the bunch you can't get N-scale. I think the Acela is in N as well, and i thought i saw an HHP8, but i could be wrong.
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#27
A pair of new units to add to my Philadelphia Area commuter roster!

Penn Central / SEPTA Silverliner III (MA-1C)

These cars were purchased by the Pennsylvania railroad in 1968 to bolster its philadelphia area commuter fleet. 20 of these, numbered 220-239, were delivered by the St. Louis Car company. However, the cars had barely had Keystones applied when the PRR merged into Penn Central, making these the last Passenger cars bought by the Pennsylvania railroad. They were also the last "railroad owned" Silverliners. The later Silverliner IVs would feature railroad heralds, but SEPTA owned the units in their entirety.

They could often be seen run in pairs, and in a lashups with the Silverliner II. They were often run between Philadelphia and Harrisburg.

They were outwardly similar to their Budd Company counterparts, the Silverliner II, thought there are differences. Externally, the Silverliner body had a slightly "squarer" Profile. The Windows were also squarer in shape. The cab face also recieved a redesign. The most unusual feature of the Silverliner III cars was the "left handed" engineer's position (on the side with the Penn Central logo). This was meant to be used for a "Pay as you go" method of payment, where engineers would take payment for tickets during off peak hours. This was never implemented.

The Silverliner III Has lead a relatively unexciting career. In fact, the only real modification to the cars has been the addition of ditchlights by SEPTA in recent years. SEPTA has also painted a few with a bright "Yellow" window band, for their "Airport" service, though these tend to move around the system. They are slated for retirement along with the Silverliner II as the new Silverliner Vs come into service.

My models are a pairt of half built IHP examples. They have some work to be done on them, but there is no reason they shouldn't be running in the near future.

**********************NEW PHOTOS***************************

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#236

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#225

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#28
rrinker Wrote:9168 is a fantasy, never a Reading car. It was NYC M499, then PC99 and through a few other owners before landing on the RBMN and ending up 9168.

--Randy

Ah, I just got the book "Reading in the Conrail Era Book 2", and it claims 9168 was indeed an RDC-3, from they NYC/PC as you said, but it also went to SEPTA in the late 70s. Apparently, SEPTA had it rebuilt into a coach sometime in the late 70s, but i'm not sure how long they had it as an RDC-3. It may or may not have had "Reading" markings on it, i can't find any photos from that time.


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A new addition to the roster-

PATCO-1 EMU cars.

These cars are unique to the Port Authority Transit Company (part of the Delaware river port authority). The High Speed Line (as its known), started out in the later part of the 1930s, connecting Philadelphia with Camden, New Jersey by crossing along the sides of the Ben Franklin Bridge. It eventually followed the PRSL all the way down to Lindenwold, NJ and was electrified with 750 vold DC third rail. Until the mid 70s, trains actually ran at 75 MPH over the NJ sections (though speed was reduced when underground and on the Bridge), but were slowed to 65 when it was shown that this dramatically reduced wear on the equipment.

the PATCO-1 cars were built in 1968 by the Budd Company, and they were some of the first computer controlled automatic trains. This means that the train starts and stops largely by itself, with only the engineer supervising the train. It is policy on the PATCO for an engineer to manual drive the train once a day so to remain practiced in running the cars. If a station stop is to be passed while the train is in automatic mode, the engineer simply hits an override button, and the train keeps going. The railroad itself is controlled by 2 men (1 in off peak hours), still using the an old CTC machine to this day to control train movement. "Control Tower" as it is called, is located near the Broadway Station in Camden.

The PATCO-1 cars came in Married Pairs and Single types. the Married pairs are the bulk of the operation, and are preferred. Single cars typically only show up when there are no more married pairs available, and in the middle of the night when ridership is likely very low. The PATCO-1 cars themselves have not changed drastically since 1968 other than some modifications to increase reliability. In fact, the Interior design is EXACTLY the same today as it was back when they were delivered.

An additional set of nearly identical "PATCO-II" cars were built in 1979 to Budd blue prints by the Hawker Sidely corporation. These cars are nearly identical. The only external difference is that the new cars lacked skirting covering their under bodies.

One unusual feature of the PATCO-1 is that the engineer sits on the left hand side of the car. At the time, Philadelphia area commuter trains were looking into a "Pay as you go" method of ticket collection (in fact, the Silverliner IIIs, also built in 1968, had a left-handed engineer's position for the same reason. Neither cars ever used this method of payment). Another reason for the PATCO-1's left handed engineer position was to reduce the crew down to one man. Being on the left side, the engineer could observe the loading/unloading of passengers, open and close the doors, and take questions from passengers. Since all stations are high-level Islands, there is rarely a time the engineer is not on the correct side of the train. When a train does have to make a stop on the "wrong side", Mirrors are mounted on the stations for the engineer to see from his position.

Probably the most fun thing about riding PATCO trains are the "front" seats. The PATCO cars have no "cab", just a small curtain partition for the Engineer's privacy. The right hand row of seats go all the way to the front (I actually rode in those seats on the real PATCO when i went to buy these models :tada: ). Its a lot of fun, and if you're lucky, you'll spot a passing NJ Transit push pull. Its also cheap.

The models are made by Imperial Hobby Productions (IHP). They are very detailed and look great with full interiors. the kits are also pretty simple. Fortunately, decal sets are available for these unique cars. They were sold in Married pairs. I do not know if they made single-car version.

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#29
Those things look like overgrown buses. :lol:
 My other car is a locomotive, ARHS restoration crew  
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#30
Trust me, they're more in line with the Silverliners. They even share the Pioneer III trucks with them, although with a smaller wheelbase. They also have an amazing electric whine that is now unique to them, as they still run on older electrical systems.

not to mention they're alot of fun to ride.
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