Placing Rail Served Industries On Layout Edge
#1
Let's run this up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes...

Those of us modeling ISL's are always looking at prototype industrial spurs and I don't need to tell you that in most cases, you see rail served industry tracks on both sides of the industrial spur or main track. Whether in dense industrial areas:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&ll=2...00545&z=18
Or in more open areas, such as this:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.11...9&t=k&z=17

Since most ISL's are built on narrow shelves, for the most part, we tend to put our structures against the backdrop, but on the front edge of the shelf, we try to pick "open" industries such as a team track or just model a part of a loading dock and imagine that the rest of the structure is behind the dock, as has been done and usually recommended by Lance Mindheim and others.

Here are examples of the type of structure/track arrangements I'm talking about and a few of my own thoughts about them...

First we have structures on both sides of and parallel to the main track:     The obvious problems are having to reach over the front structure and not being able to see what is spotted behind it unless you carry a mirror in your pocket. It's usually recommended that if you do have an arrangement like this, that the front structure should be positioned so that you don't have to reach over it - but that may not be practical if you are trying to model an actual track/industry arrangement.

Next we have structures on both sides of the main track but one track is at an angle or curving away:     I think this might be a bit more workable in that you can look around the end of the building and see what's spotted there, but there is still the reach over problem.

Finally, we have an industry where the track runs inside the building (with or without another track opposite it) - a very common prototype situation:     I've had some thoughts on doing something like this where you'd actually be able to see inside the structure and have a detailed interior looking something like this:     Besides the reach over aspect, all these arrangements share the same basic problem - coupling/uncoupling cars behind or inside the structure. I manually uncouple all my cars and would not want to necessarily have to pull the whole track, just to get say the first or second car of a 4 car cut.

So I'm wondering how many of you have actually placed structures on the layout edge, where the track would be behind or even inside the structure and what your thoughts/experiences about doing something like that are.
Ed
"Friends don't let friends build Timesavers"
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#2
That's a great picture! I also like the effect of the floor, the kind of gloss warehouse flooring that you get if it has been coated with epoxy resins etc (often done in butcher shops and other places where either hygiene is needed, or in places where liquid spills are likely (oils etc).)

To get to your question, I had planned a structure (warehouse) at my layout front edge, but like you I manually uncouple cars etc, so now I've opted for a lower / open industry, a scrap yard, in it's place, so I can still reach over to tracks further back. I do like that open warehouse idea though, but still not sure what to do about the uncoupling bit. I know I could use an underfloor magnet or something, but I am thinking of changing my couplers to those of Sergent Engineering in the future, as I love the way they look, not sure if they will work well with under the track magnets etc.
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#3
torikoos Wrote:... I've opted for a lower / open industry, a scrap yard, in it's place, so I can still reach over to tracks further back.
Same here, for now all my "proposed" plans have a team track and another open type industry, that would only require a very small, low structure (tank car unloading facility).

Of course you can find industrial spurs where everything is on one side of the main track for one reason or another (this being an example: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.97...6&t=k&z=18), but I prefer to have something on each side of the main track and am really wondering if what I'm demonstrating is workable.
torikoos Wrote:I do like that open warehouse idea though, but still not sure what to do about the uncoupling bit. I know I could use an underfloor magnet or something, but I am thinking of changing my couplers to those of Sergent Engineering in the future, as I love the way they look, not sure if they will work well with under the track magnets etc.
I've never liked going the magnet uncoupling route for many reasons. And although I haven't done it thus far, if I stay with the Kadee's I'll most likely cut off those trip pins and put air hose details on the end of the cars.

I doubt seriously of those lovely Sergent couplers would work with an under track magnet. Been thinking about possibly switching to them myself at some point in the future. About the only other thing I've thought of in regard to the open warehouse, would be to make the roof easily removable to access the cars if necessary. Not sure I'd be comfortable doing that, but it's a thought.
Ed
"Friends don't let friends build Timesavers"
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#4
The other opion is to slice the building on the layout edge so you look through it, maybe model some of the interior. I have seen this on some layouts. It could be the edge building is almost a flat so does not get damaged with reach over.

Ed's Buffalo Springs Distillery plan elsewher on this board lends inself to this approach.

Ken
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#5
Londoner Wrote:The other opion is to slice the building on the layout edge so you look through it, maybe model some of the interior. I have seen this on some layouts. It could be the edge building is almost a flat so does not get damaged with reach over.

Ed's Buffalo Springs Distillery plan elsewher on this board lends inself to this approach.

Ken

To get a hand held uncoupler 'wand' in there is difficult, unless it's a really tall building. The removable roof idea is also not that ideal, I wouldn't want to compromise the 'illusion' too much by having to do stuff like that. It's a good point you brought up, I wonder what solutions will emerge from this! :-)
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#6
I have a section of the layout that has an industrial park. There is a beverage warehouse that is along the edge and can spot two 62' boxcars. The building is approx 1 1/2" x 26 1/2" and has an open back.(Still needs to be detailed). When we operate the guys using manually uncouple before the car gets behind the building then shove to its spot.    

Bruce


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#7
bdw9535 Wrote:... When we operate the guys using manually uncouple before the car gets behind the building then shove to its spot...

I have been at operating sessions where this method is used. The Kadees (or other knuckle couplers) are set in the "delayed" position before shoving the car(s) out of reach. Not entirely prototypical having to stop once before spotting the car, but it works well for places that are out of reach.

Andrew
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#8
MasonJar Wrote:
bdw9535 Wrote:... When we operate the guys using manually uncouple before the car gets behind the building then shove to its spot...

INot entirely prototypical having to stop once before spotting the car, but it works well for places that are out of reach.

Andrew

That's my 'concern' exactly, then again, what is prototypical of the 'giant hand of god; reaching down to uncouple a car, but it's the illusion you are personally emerged in. Stopping above a magnet/uncouple location before shunting it further is un prototypical, and the manual operation you personally do engages you into the play on a personal level. Boys will be boys I guess :-)
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#9
I have the same set up as Bruce. Zero Corp is on the edge of the layout and is roughly 6" deep, it can spot 2 50' cars. I uncouple the cars just ahead of the industry and push them to the final spot. My layout hight currently is 48" but will be raised to 50, but that should not present a problem.

Cheers,
John
John
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#10
Ed,As I mention I have never done that before but,now I must because of 1 large structure has the dock inside the building and the inbound cars must be spotted in side.

I plan on using between the rail magnets for uncoupling so I can use the delayed action of the MT coupler in spotting cars.

I don't see a problem with your buildings on front of the layout. I will suggest using a magnet at these industries since it will make life easier but eliminating the need to reach over the building while uncoupling or shoving the cars in place by hand once they are uncoupled.
Larry
Engineman

Summerset Ry

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#11
bdw9535 Wrote:I have a section of the layout that has an industrial park. There is a beverage warehouse that is along the edge and can spot two 62' boxcars. The building is approx 1 1/2" x 26 1/2" and has an open back.(Still needs to be detailed). When we operate the guys using manually uncouple before the car gets behind the building then shove to its spot.    
Bruce
Bruce;
Thanks for the photo. Exactly what I was thinking about, but perhaps with the track actually inside the building.

The inside of these structures is pretty barren looking. Just steel I and H beams with the metal siding attached to them. The rest just a big concrete platform, with pallets full of "stuff" all over the place.

The case house at Schenley Distillers on the now abandoned F&C Railroad is a metal building with the track inside and more often than not, we'd have to pull everything, line up our cars outside and then shove everything back into the building.

Like some others, I'm not into the delayed uncoupling feature, although it would work okay manually with either Kadee or Sergent couplers. Would sort of simulate having to manually align a drawbar on the real thing - something I did frequently.

Just have never liked trying to use magnets, because of the un-prototypical moves you must make: stop over ramp, let couplers separate, move away slightly, then move back into the couplers that are now off center, then shove to rest.

Any way, for now, I'm testing out how having a track behind a structure sitting at an angle might work out. If it becomes a hassle, then it's back to the drawing board!

Getting some interesting feedback on this topic! Thumbsup
Ed
"Friends don't let friends build Timesavers"
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#12
Ed,

Pier 32 though not on the edge of the layout has three tracks inside which can hold up to twentyeight cars.

Bruce


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#13
If you switch to Sergent's couplers, you can't use an under track uncoupling magnet. The Sergents use a hand held magnet ABOVE the coupler to pull the locking ball up, rather than moving a "hose" sideways.
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#14
Russ Bellinis Wrote:If you switch to Sergent's couplers, you can't use an under track uncoupling magnet. The Sergents use a hand held magnet ABOVE the coupler to pull the locking ball up, rather than moving a "hose" sideways.
That's what I thought, only their tool will do the job, which will make industries with tracks INSIDE a building a lot trickier to work with due to access. It is a consideration to make when you are planning something like that.
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#15
One of the guys in the modular club made an uncoupling tool for Sergents to uncouple passenger cars with diaphragms. He took an old hack saw blade and ground it down to @ 3/16-1/4 inch thick on the end and glued on a rare earth magnet. He can slide it in from the side to activate his uncouplers so that he doesn't need to go down from the top. You could build an open side building on the layout edge with the warehouse doors modeled open. To uncouple a car with Sergents, you would shift the car so that the coupler you wanted to uncouple would be in a doorway, and use a tool slid in from off the bench work to activate the Sergents.
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