Freelance 2011
#31
faraway Wrote:However, I did make up my mind with respect of the time period for the layout. It should be as modern as possible when such brick buildings have been still around. I think that can be around 1980. 1980 is a great time because most modern engines (Sw1500, MP15, GP15 ...) and cars have been around already.

Or right now.

This is an area my own layout was originally designed to include. I moved and lost the space for this section:

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#32
This is a great thread Reinhard.I'm currently planning my own layout so you have provided some positive inspiration---I especially like the King Mill backdrops Thumbsup
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#33
Reinhard, I'm not sure how to use google or bing to get to street view, but you don't need to lose LAJ or Los Angeles or Vernon in order to use the brick buildings. Here are a couple of links to locations with brick buildings in Vernon or just outside of Vernon.

Here is the Santa Fe Ave off ramp from the I-10 freeway at 8th Street.
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I put in a long response with a lot of links to google maps on Sattelite only to have google default to a useless view of Oklahoma. The only maop that came out is Bing, so I'm trying again.
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Notice the brick building with the parking lot on the roof. This is just a bit South on Santa Fe from the previous view.

This view is farther South along Santa Fe and shows a mix of brick and tilt up.
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Moving farther south still on Santa Fe, we are now in Vernon. Most of the buildings in this view are brick.
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Here we have moved East of our previous loctaion. Most of the buildings here are brick. The black lines that look like curved roads from this view are LAJ tracks.
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Here is the last view East of the previous view. You can see the LAJ tracks behind the buildings between streets. Most of these buildings are brick, but any have been painted rather than the brick being left in the natural weathered state.
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#34
faraway Wrote:But when I look at "the patch" and at "the "rat hole" the LA area is very also a good location for older brick buildings. In that time (197x - 198x) I could run SP SW1500 and MP15AC very well.
Reinhard,
much like you I have difficulties to choose a specific era. I am going back and forward in time constantly. But for the patch section of my layout I have now decided on the 197x - 198x time frame.

I know it may sound silly or strange.. but.. have you considered having different eras along each long wall of your room? This is the way I go.
Yesterday I worked the whole day in walking distance to your place. I was tempted to ring at your door and discuss the topic on scene.
Jens
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#35
I finally got to the street view, so here are some street views of brick buildings in Los Angeles & Vernon.
The fiorst one is looking South on Santa Fe toward the I-10 freeway.
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South Santa Fe @ E 25th
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Just zipping through the street view I am amazed at how much the area has changed since worked up there!
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#36
Reinhard, great work !!!

Russ Thumbsup
greeting from the blade city Solingen / gruß aus der Klingenstadt Solingen

Harry

Scale Z and N
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#37
The Carrier-Transicold dealership where I worked was originally near the corner of Washington Blvd. & Alameda St. in Los Angeles. They sold the property and moved to a larger property in the corner of the property formerly occupied by a Carrier Air Conditioning plant in City of Industry in @1992 I think. The area still had a lot of the old style brick buildings in place as late as 2004 or 2005. I think some of the old brick buildings started to be demolished in the late 1990's or or early 2000's, but the change to where it is now was somewhat gradual. If you model downtown Los Angeles in the area that used to be the "Patch" or Vernon, you can use mostly brick, sheet metal, and generally old style buildings well into the 1990's
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#38
Russ Bellinis Wrote:... If you model downtown Los Angeles in the area that used to be the "Patch" or Vernon, you can use mostly brick, sheet metal, and generally old style buildings well into the 1990's
Russ, thank you. That information is very helpful as it relaxes the time window I have to match. I can take all the 198x up into the very early 199x (that enables SP MP15AC with speed lettering!).That will also match the north yard with the modern harbor backdrop (container terminals etc.).

Jens, the layout is to small to run with different eras but Russ information makes it much easier. Most switching moves must use the other yard as a lead track Confusedhock:

Harry, thanks for the kind words

However, if I use the background paper building as base for my structures I can not model a specific building in a specific area. I can only model free lance with a more or less "typical" kind and mix of structures. At the moment I am mixing the older paper buildings in the background with the white shoe boxes in the foreground. That is not following a specific prototype but it looks sound for an area with older industry that is replaced lot by lot with newer buildings (like in the Vernon/LA area). It is also so flexible I can put Conrail GP15s on the layout and everything is in the North East for the next hours Big Grin

I think it is a good idea to take the LA/Vernon area as a rough guide line for a freelance layout to ensure not to drift from freelance to fantasy. It is also a well documented area with lots of good information required to understand the operation taking place. That helps to build a layout that serves a purpose other than running a train on a loop.
Reinhard
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#39
Reinhard, remember also that brick doesn't have to be red. A lot of the older brick buildings in downtown Los Angeles, & Vernon were painted white or any number of colors as well. For an interesting industry, check out this one on the corner of Bandini Blvd and Soto St. It is the Farmer John packing house. Until the mid 1990's, hogs were shipped on the U.P. into Los Angeles from the midwest (Iowa, I think) on the U.P. "Hogex". One of those trains came by our shop in City of Industry while I was at the shop. I think it was powered by 3 or 4 Sd40-2 locomotives and had 3 or maybe 4 double deck stock cars loaded with pigs for slaughter, that was the entire train. There were as many engines on the point as there were cars in the train! Boy talk about a train "flying by" and the smell chasing behind it!!! I think part of the reason for it to move so fast was so the train crew could stay ahead of the smell! Anyway, I think the mural that is painted on the buildings and the fence around the Farmer John plant makes for one of the most interesting industry's in So Cal.
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I don"t know why it won't paste the street view that I was on when I told it to copy/paste, but if you go to the link and zoom in to the corner of Bandini Blvd and Soto St I think it is in (Vernon or it may be in East L.A.), and then go to street view and explore the industry on the Southeast corner, you will see a most amazing paint scheme for an industry! I have often thought of incorporating Farmer John on my layout, but I haven't figured out how to replicate the mural that is on all of the exterior walls!
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#40
Russ, I think the audience must see Farmer John to understand what you are writing about. That is outstanding!

[Image: farmerjohn.jpg?t=1301129144]

I am getting closer to feel comfortable with Vernon/LA in 1980 served by SP. That opens a lot of possibilities and matches available and suitable rolling stock very well. SP had SW1500 and MP15AC on the road. Both engines have been used as a single engine on locals in the LA area. Both engines have Athaern models with good and very good drives. That matches my small ISL much better than todays double and triple Genset or at least UP SW1500 plus GP15 consists. ATSF is a not so good choice due to the lack of small switchers at all and LAJ forces me into the beloved CF7 with lots of drive problems. However, I can always run an LAJ and/or ATSF engine on that layout.
Is my understanding correct that UP did not play an active role in serving single industries in that area in 1980? That was SP and ATSF county and UP did only serve the LA basin with long distance trains from the east but had no local network.

I think the area between Alameda and Soto is very rich on mixed buildings and does well accept old brick of all kind with new slab buildings mixed in 1980.

A problem is my time. First vacation will start in about a week and there are only a few weeks until the second scuba dive trip followed by four weeks travelling in the US. I think I get the time to start a mayor rebuild in late July this year. That gives be some time to think even more what to do.
Reinhard
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#41
Another link with older industry in LA http://lariverrailroads.com/downtownindustry.html
Reinhard
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#42
Excellent research, Reinhard; gives me more food for thought Thumbsup

Jonte
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#43
faraway Wrote:Another link with older industry in LA http://lariverrailroads.com/downtownindustry.html


Incidentally, Reinhard, may I ask a question of one who's an eye for Downtown LA architecture ?

What is the material used in the construction of the corrugated structure in the centre of the 3rd picture down? I'm thinking it can't be iron as there's no apparent rusting, therefore, is it asbestos sheeting and if so why is it brown in colour? Is it some sort of protectice coating?

I've noticed this type of construction quite regularly around 'The Patch' so any help you could provide would be appreciated.

Thanks again for posting.

Jonte
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#44
That Farmer John building is crazy! :o I'm thinking it would stand out like a sore thumb on a layout. Goldth
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#45
jonte Wrote:...What is the material used in the construction of the corrugated structure in the centre of the 3rd picture down?...

Jonte, I don't know what material makes the brown front on the old photo but it looks like they are using corrugated steal this time. There is a nice low profile industry in 24thstreet. A part of the building is plated with corrugated steal. It is half (lousy) painted and half total rusted.

[Image: angelusmill.jpg?t=1301184077]
Reinhard
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