Freelance 2013-2 (MAW)

[faraway]

Matt, I agree and the brown concrete elevators are off the layout now. They are overdone for a small community in Ohio.
The white concrete is the old part that has been extended in modern times by the steel bins. That is a usual situation often found at the prototype.

There is another question popping up

I would like to swap the two location of the two tall steel bins (left) with the thick steel silo (right).


I find conflicting information.
Version 1
The tall bins are dedicated dry/wet bin and must be located at the entry of the process together with the dryer. The thick steel silo is not designed for wet grain.
Version 2
I found photos with a long string of those tall bins explicitly named long term storage.

Question
Have the tall and the thick bin dedicated use?

[FCIN]

Reinhard;

From what I've seen at dozens of grain elevators, the large storage bin would most likely be placed behind the older concrete elevator where you now have the "wet/dry" bins located. Its purpose is for storing the grain that has already been dried or in many cases these bins themselves will have drying fans attached to them at the base. This photo shows a location not unlike what you are modeling, where the concrete elevator, built in the 30s or 40s, has been enlarged with the addition of the newer steel storage bins:     The "wet/dry" bins would most likely be located close to the truck unloading location. I've rarely seen such "wet/dry" bins at grain elevators, but more often at large feed mill installations. Of course it isn't unusual to see combination grain elevator and feed mill complexes and also facilities for handling inbound fertilizers as you see in this photo. As I noted before, in many small agriculture communities, you'd have one-stop shopping for all your farming needs.

Would take some time, but look around on Google maps at various locations where grain elevators are located and hopefully street views will be available to give you a better idea of what you might find at such locations. You'll often see the addition of the tall grain legs and distribution pipes have been added to the older elevators for filling the additional grain bins, such as what you see in this photo. More details!

[faraway]

Ed, thank you for answering my question. That was also my understanding until I found some photos with long rows of grain bins looking like wet/dry bins with a text that let me assume they are used for pure storage.
This site http://www.agri-systems.com/welded-hopper-tanks.php shows hopper bottom silos used for storage expansion but not for wet/dry grain handling. However, it looks like the flat bottom silos are the more common ones if a storage only solution is required. The easy unloading has less priority in that case and does not justify the addition l cost in most cases.

I am confused by the terms "elevator" vs. "leg". The old concrete elevators are the building plus the technical equipment that elevates/lifts the grain. That is understood.
At modern installations are the "lifts" in tall towers. I understand this "towers" with the lift are the elevators. But what is the "leg" Is the "leg" the pipe that run from top of the lift to the bin? Sometimes the term "wet leg and dry leg" is used. Is that a combination of the pipe from the top of the lift and the dry/wet storage bin?
How is the term "conveyor" used in this context? I understand a conveyor is used for horizontal transportation. e.g. a belt conveyor. That is the unit at the bottom of the lift that feeds the lift from storage bins etc..
The Cornerstone kit 933-2936 (http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2936) is named ELEVATOR/CONVEYOR "LEG" . It contains a tall tower with the lift and the pipes. What are the elevator, the conveyor and the legs in this kit?

[FCIN]

Reinhard;

Actually, the large "flat" grain bins have a slopped bottom that you can't see to allow the grain to flow into a below ground conveyor system. Those below ground conveyors would move the grain back to the elevator (or grain leg) where it would then again be raised and then routed out pipes for loading. This gives you a somewhat circular flow for the grain in so far as when it's received, it's moved via the elevator/grain leg to the storage bins and then when you ship it out, it again goes through the elevator/grain leg and routed through pipes for loading. The routing of the grain from the top of the elevator/grain leg to various pipes is controlled by that round looking thing you see at the left top of the Walther's photo.

The term "leg" is what people I've talked to around elevators call those tall thin vertical "elevators" like the one that Walther's sells; so either term would be okay. Principal is the same as it was with the old elevators where it is a continuous belt will small buckets that lift the grain to a high elevation where it is then routed to the storage bins. You should be able to find illustrations or diagrams on the Internet showing how the grain is handled. Hope I'm not confusing you. I've always been interested in these grain elevators myself, which explains why I now have a fleet of about 30 covered hoppers and a couple of un-assembled or partially assembled Walther's grain elevators that are now surplus because of my layout theme changes.

Here's a very interesting web site I just located that shows various modern grain elevator design and components that might explain things better than I have: http://www.agdesignllc.com/

[faraway]

... The term "leg" is what people I've talked to around elevators call those tall thin vertical "elevators" like the one that Walther's sells; so either term would be okay....

Ed, thank you. That is the key to understand the system. I get totally confused looking for two different parts of the system, the elevator and the leg while those are two names for the same part

ps. It looks like legs are frequently used with older concrete silos too. I assume the old elevators needed to be expanded or to be replaced and it is more cost effective to install a state of the art standard leg outside the old structure.

[jwb]

So is the greenish-blue house-shaped shed with the elevator for fertilizer? This seems to be a pattern I see in California, fertilizer in house-shaped sheds with the modern-style elevator legs.

[jwb]

Here's another question: as I said in another thread, in many parts of the country, grain is shipped in as feed. However, the equipment seems to be very similar to town elevators that handle outbound grain. Here is what I'm almost certain is a feed facility in Buttonwillow, CA, The track is on the far side.
   
The smaller elevated cylinders seem to be for loading trucks.

[faraway]

... The smaller elevated cylinders seem to be for loading trucks.

I understood they are so called "surge bin". They are used as a buffer to collect the input and enable a continuous flow at the output side. I see them at loading stations (like on your photo) and at grain dryers.

[FCIN]

So is the greenish-blue house-shaped shed with the elevator for fertilizer? This seems to be a pattern I see in California, fertilizer in house-shaped sheds with the modern-style elevator legs.

You got it! The shed is where bulk fertilizer is stored. These facilities come in all sizes too, and the modern type "grain leg" is found at most of them. Also, the large tank you see to the left is an anhydrous ammonia tank.

Here's another question: as I said in another thread, in many parts of the country, grain is shipped in as feed. However, the equipment seems to be very similar to town elevators that handle outbound grain.

Many feed mills look like your example and are often confused with being just grain elevators. Here's a view of Burkmann Feeds in Danville, KY.     You can just make out the rail spur to the left of the grain truck and the covered unloading pit. They typically receive about 1 car of feed a month. Lot's of cattle and of course horses in the area. I've seen some feed mills around the mid-west that are monsters.

[jwb]

A couple more fertilizer questions (I don't want to hijack Reinhard's thread, but this does cover rail-served agri stuff, and nobody seems to have been much interested in the thread I started in the industrial forum a few days ago):

Here is a structure in Buttonwillow, CA with a sign that says Simplot Grower Solutions:
   
Simplot is a little puzzling to me, because they do both potatoes and fertilizer, and I assume this is the fertilizer end. This backs up against a rail siding, but I don't know if this gets rail shipments of anything. But here is a tank car lettered for Simplot in Santa Maria, CA carrying phosphoric acid. It seems to be serving a somewhat similar small facility, though there are tanks here, and the car is clearly being unloaded.
   
Is the same thing being done at both places? If so, I really, really like this layout-size agri business.

[faraway]

The concrete elevator and silos need to be painted and weathered. I tried something new to me

Roof and walls
1. First layer of special plastic primer, looks like dull coat
2. Layer of light gray primer

Walls only
3. Layer of white primer. Intentionally sloppy applied#
4. Horizontal and vertical strokes with a brass brush (the brush is very old and is intended to clean automobile spark plugs). At some patches is all white gone and it became solid light gray.
5. Horizontal scribing with a scribing iron

All painting was done at the balcony with the rattle can.

[faraway]

One step further. The steel bins are brand new installed. Looks odd to me. I need some time to decide if I like it or if they will be weathered down.

[Painkiller]

That was a sudden move, from L.A to farmlands... MAW is interesting but after youtubing, I must say MAW would be jealous of your track work! But then again this will be interesting to see the transformation from industrial suburbs to the farm lands. So far everything is looking good!

[FCIN]

Reinhard;

You're really moving along with this grain elevator complex! Looks great and typical of many such facilities you see in the mid-west. Having parts of the complex on both sides of the rail sidings certainly adds interest along with the grain trucks lined up to be unloaded.

Just an idea, and I'm not sure how well this would work, but you could get some yellow corn meal and make loads for the trucks similar to the way folks make loads for coal hoppers. Also scatter some around the track where the cars are loaded and maybe a little near the truck unloading shed. Secure it like dirt or ballast and hopefully it wouldn't attract any unwelcome guests to your layout.

[faraway]

.... get some yellow corn meal and make loads for the trucks similar to the way folks make loads for coal hoppers. Also scatter some around the track where the cars are loaded and maybe a little near the truck unloading shed....

Very good point! Two of my trucks are empty and one is covered. I plan to have one open with the visible freight.
That raises the point what do I do load? Grain, ok but what kind of grain is harvested in the area of the MAW (wheat, barley, rye, corn...) and how looks the harvested grain? Is is corn meal yellow or more like sand?

This one is like gold http://www.unitedethanol.com/images/E013...oadpit.jpg or rye like this http://www.brewps.com/prod_images/large/BPS-GB810.jpg

I have one photo that looks like they are harvesting corn right beside a MAW track