CNR MLW RS-18 (Atlas)

[sailormatlac]

Hi folks!

Since I'm recovering from a nasty cold, I'm decided to spend some time on an old project. My interest was sparked when I saw picture of Limoilou yard in the 70s with some nice RS18.

I'm planning to build two of these engines, using an Atlas/Kato and an Atlas Classic as a start. I'm aware about the incorrect wheelbase on the older version but it should bother anyone at the club. I think it's almost trivial compared to P1K RS10/18 obvious carbody incorrect dimensions.

Both locomotives will be built as modified in the 60s. They should need too much chirurgy to be decent models. My goal: straighforward process, fairly realistic, using easily available parts and under 50$ in new parts and paint.



First one: Kato/Atlas. The paint isn't attacked by alcohol. I know people used brake fluid and other nasty chemicals, I try to keep myself far from them. However, alcohol dissolve well the pad printed numbers and lines. So I erased them easily with a cotton swab. I won't stripe the model, just erase the lettring to be sure no ghosting occured when it is repainted. However, I'll remove paint were lots of modification are needed to ensure perfect seams.





I shaved cast-on grabirons on short and long hood. MLW had a very different pattern for them. I also removed the headlight (too high according to prototype), the sand hatch and number boards. Everything was sanded down to get an even surface.



Then I laminated styrene sheets to built up enough material to be able to sculpt the correct MLW un-notched ends. I had Miniature By Eric brass parts to fill up those notches, but thought they fit, I feel they will be a lot of pain to work with an get a perfect and invisible alignment. Also, I would need to drill them to install new number boards and classification lights: a lot of useless trouble IMHO. I prefer plastic soldered/cemented to plastic.







BTW, anybody got an idea how to make classification lights? I tried to salvage without success the original one on the model. Maybe drilling a hole and inserting some tubing in it?

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Corners were roughly trimmed with an X-acto blade and rounded with a jeweller file.





There's still some little imperfections that will need to be puttied before adding details.

I also filler the horn holes on the cab roof with styrene rod and sanded them down.

Next step is to trim a battery box, cut the large roof fan and remove the wrong intercooler fan on each side. Also, the two carbody filters located near the cab will be cut down to make room for a 3-unit one. I'm planning to 3D print the new carbody filters and intercooling fan. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out those simplistic rectangular parts with good photograph references.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I'm surprised how easy this kitbashing is going on. I feel like the hard steps are now being me, only detailling is left and designing some parts for 3D printing.

Puttying is completed on the now-gone Alco notches.

I rebuillt the cab and long hood were I removed one of the step. I'm actually in the process of lenghtening the doors. Also, I sanded down the small "gutter" located at the base of the roof. It didn't exist on any RS11 I've ever saw. Also added a Sinclair Antenna per prototype.





Next step: lots of drilling and mesurements to locate all tiny details in the right place. Still need to hollow the fan and intercoolers.

BTW, does an intercooler part exist in HO? Not that I bother making it myself, just curious. I've read somewhere Tiger Valley may have had this parts, but looks like it will be faster if I do it myself.

Honestly, a fun bash. I won't mind doing it again in the near future.

Matt

[BR60103]

Matt: what do you use for puttying the corner joints?
I have 4 different tubes on my bench and I don't like any of them much.

[sailormatlac]

Matt: what do you use for puttying the corner joints?
I have 4 different tubes on my bench and I don't like any of them much.

I used Tamiya and other stuff like that in the past. I wasn't pleased at all with them, particularly an italian brand I forgot the name.

For superficial scratches and defects, I use automotive spot putty. It is available in large tube (454 g, I'm using mine for more than 5 years now), it's one part and dry fast (less than 20 min.). It's not the two parts Bondo and similar product, but the glazing putty to finish the job. It have no structural strength itself, but really useful to finish a surface. Very, very sandable.

Matt

[doctorwayne]

Matt, you were wise to not use brake fluid on that body shell, as I've had an Atlas shell absolutely ruined by it - badly deformed and then very brittle.

Your choice of styrene for filling those notches in the corners of the hood is a good one. I did several in that manner for some CPR RS- diesels, and it's an easy job which yields better results than those commercially-available ones.

Small bits of scrap styrene, or, even better, the dust from sanding styrene makes a good filler for styrene. Simply place some in a disposable metal container (I use the bottle caps from Floquil and PollyScale paints, with the plastic or cardboard seals removed), then add lacquer thinner or your favourite solvent-type cement. Add more plastic or thinner to make it the consistency needed, then use an old X-Acto blade to apply it. Let it harden completely (preferably overnight) before filing or sanding it smooth.

For classification lights, fibre optics work well. If I recall correctly, I used some about .025" in diameter. Make a nice square cut on the end, and you can easily form a lense by bringing it close to (but not touching) a hot soldering iron. Keep it square to the heat source to keep the material from deforming. It takes only a few seconds, and without too much practice, you'll be able to form a bunch of them to the same size - the longer they're near the heat, the larger they get. I have dye which came with the starter pack I bought many years ago, but you should be able to colour them with markers.
The class lights on this old Athearn diesel were done with fibre optics, but, as far as I know, the TH&B's only showed white when lit. (Mine are non-working )




Wayne

[sailormatlac]

Matt, you were wise to not use brake fluid on that body shell, as I've had an Atlas shell absolutely ruined by it - badly deformed and then very brittle.

Your choice of styrene for filling those notches in the corners of the hood is a good one. I did several in that manner for some CPR RS- diesels, and it's an easy job which yields better results than those commercially-available ones.

Small bits of scrap styrene, or, even better, the dust from sanding styrene makes a good filler for styrene. Simply place some in a disposable metal container (I use the bottle caps from Floquil and PollyScale paints, with the plastic or cardboard seals removed), then add lacquer thinner or your favourite solvent-type cement. Add more plastic or thinner to make it the consistency needed, then use an old X-Acto blade to apply it. Let it harden completely (preferably overnight) before filing or sanding it smooth.

For classification lights, fibre optics work well. If I recall correctly, I used some about .025" in diameter. Make a nice square cut on the end, and you can easily form a lense by bringing it close to (but not touching) a hot soldering iron. Keep it square to the heat source to keep the material from deforming. It takes only a few seconds, and without too much practice, you'll be able to form a bunch of them to the same size - the longer they're near the heat, the larger they get. I have dye which came with the starter pack I bought many years ago, but you should be able to colour them with markers.
The class lights on this old Athearn diesel were done with fibre optics, but, as far as I know, the TH&B's only showed white when lit. (Mine are non-working )




Wayne

Thanks for your welcomed advices Wayne.

About the optic fiberglass classification lenses. I understand it works for the lense itself, but how would you do the fine metal lining surrounding it on the carbody? BTW, the results your technic yelds is quite impressive and realistic. We've got some optic fiber that size at the club, I'll try something next time for sure.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I completed my 3D Print design for the intercooler. I'm planning to print also the sand hatches and other grilles. I kept the geometric purely rectangular to kept thing simpler. I'll file the round parts myself instead of fighting with 3D print problems.

@ Wayne:

Do you have a safe method to remove the intercooler? I mean, they are quite a big chunk of plastig. The shell is really thin and I feel it will loose a lot of structural strengh if I completely remove them. I'm also opening the roof fan, so it leaves only a small plastic bridge to keep everything together. How did you process when you converted yours?

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I'm surprised how much fun I have trying to figure out this model. Remembers me my first ever bash in college when I thought it was a good idea to use an Atlas C424 to make a M420!!! The angular roof was made out of a wooden window venetian store and I did modified the notches just like I did yesterday! Don't laugh, it wasn't perfect, probably out of proportions, but still more sturdy than a warping resin kit you fear to put on your layout when visitors are coming to operate! I wish I still had my 1974 RMC article about the M420 with scale drawings. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to figure out something again. Should have taken pictures of this bash back then. I remember people at the LHS were quite surprised to see the result. Gosh, I'm seriouly thinking I'm an Alco-holic... be it MLW steam or diesel! I wish someday a guy will put an Alco cab on a modern large 6-axle diesel... I miss those rounded cab design (the man behind this design was a pure genius!).

I gave some thoughts about it and it much more cheaper to acquire Atlas RS32 shell than buy different specialized part. This way, I'll get a proper fan, a decent radiators shutters (those on the RS11 are so grotesque, wasted 2 hours cleaning them!) and also the 3-units louvers. I'll will also provide door and other useful part for other bashes. All that for less than 4 bucks, when I could easily waste time and money otherwise.

Since I want to build a few RS18 (3 others, one CN and 2 CP in Maroon & Grey Script), I 'm trying to figure out how to streamline the process and get rid of irritating process. And I'll save myself some pain and money by getting Atlas Classic instead of Atlas/Kato next time, that way I won't need to rework some fans and the pilots, and shaving grabirons will be much, much easier!

BTW, I've got a question about handrails. I'd like to keep the delrin ones since these locos are on a club layout and they are resistant. MLW units had some minor differences from ALCO. I'm thinking about two options:

1) Cutting the wrong section and replacing it by parts correct sections of Atlas handrails. I would make a hole in both parts to pin and glue parts together.

2) This option involves a little bit more work: only keeping the stanchions, drilling them and using a brass wire to form new railing suiting my taste. It sure is a lot of works, but it may even improve the thick Atlas railing. However, I hate this option because I feel it will be harder to dismantle the unit after for maintenance. Am I wrong?

Best regards,

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Another question. Is it possible to make a rubber mold on a painted model without ruining it? I think it'S fine, but I never did it and would like to know. I aks because I'm thinking about molding intercoolers from a P1K shell we have.

Thanks!

Matt

[doctorwayne]

Lots of questions, eh Matt? It's good to see your enthusiasm for this project, and I'm sure the results will be as impressive as they always are.
For those class light bezels, I'd use brass tubing of an appropriate outside diameter. Use suitably-sized drill bits to gradually ream-out the bore, until the wall of the tubing is of a more prototypical thickness - you needn't go too deep, as the lense formed with fibre optic is fairly shallow, and its rear is conical.

As for the intercooler, I wasn't even aware of its existence when I did the CPR units. They were done for a customer of the LHS for which I used to do custom painting, and all I was asked to do was eliminate the notches on the hood ends and give them a CP or CPR paint job - I don't even recall if they were Action Red or grey and maroon. I must've have done okay, though, as I was told that the customer was extemely pleased with the results.
Even now, I continue to learn new methods and, of course, pay more attention to the prototype which I'm trying to re-create, and I'm sure my current work is an improvement over a lot of what was done in the past. That said, I also know that these skills will slip away as the years pass (it's already begun, I think, based on my progress - or lack thereof - on my Grand Valley 10-Wheelers ).

I'm not a big fan of Delrin handrails, although many the current ones I see at my LHS appear to be very close to scale dimensions. I'm somewhat put off by their translucent appearance and if they've been mishandled or, even worse, mis-packaged, they "take a set" which is difficult to remedy.
I had an an RS-3 which I re-detailed to loosely match one I had seen in a photo - the Atlas loco was a gift, lettered, I think, for D&H or L&N. I wasn't at that time modelling the CNR at all, but figured it would look more appropriate on my free-lanced southern Ontario layout:



The over-size Delrin handrails bothered me, and I replaced them with ones made from music wire - .015", I think. Use the Atlas ones as patterns to fabricate new ones, modifying them as necessary to match your prototype, then cut out all of the Delrin handrail sections, leaving only the stanchions. Use a pin vise to drill suitably-sized holes in them, then thread them onto the new wire handrails. Plug the holes in the step wells and cab sides using styrene rod, then re-drill to accept the finer wire.
I then mounted the handrails on the loco and aligned the stanchions vertically by-eye. Once everything looked straight, I used an X-Acto #11 blade to apply a minute amount of ca to each joint where the handrail passed through a stanchion - touch the blade to one side, then immediately to the other of each stanchion, and the ca will be drawn completely through the joint. Use a tissue or paper towel to wick away any excess ca before it sets. While ca does not stick to Delrin, it does adhere to the wire handrail and gives at least an interference fit which will help to keep everthing in alignment. I also used ca to affix the wire into the step-well holes, but left those into the cab un-cemented. If you need to remove the body shell, simply pull the wire out of the holes in the cab, and place a piece of paper or cardstock between the cab's side and the ends of the wire - this will protect the paint as the shell is lifted off or replaced. I didn't redo the end handrails on the RS-3, as I thought it not worth the effort.
This RS-1 was done for a friend, and uses a variation of the CNR paint scheme, but is lettered for his own road. It has all of the handrails replaced with music wire, including those on the ends.






While music wire is more difficult to work with than brass, its springiness makes it much better-suited to handrails, and this property also makes it a good match with the Delrin stanchions.


Quite some time ago, I did a bunch of Atlas SD24s and SD35s with wide cabs - this was shortly after they debuted on CNs GP38-2s and GP40-2s, as I had seen both at Hamilton's Stuart Street yard. Mine were made from sheet styrene, and were based solely on photos I had taken at that time. At that time, there was nothing similar commercially available. The all-weather windows are solid Plexiglass blocks, with the metal areas simply painted-on.



Or how about a CN C-425? It was done for my son, who was, at that time, somewhat interested in trains. It's pretty-much "stock", except for a few added details and the paint job, the latter of which is one of my all-time favourite prototype schemes:




Oh, and by the way, I have that December 1974 issue of RMC, and will scan the plans and e-mail them to you once this is posted.

Wayne

[sailormatlac]

Wayne! You say it! With my nasty cold, it's been my fourth insomnia in a row and my boss gave me the week to recover. So a lots of time on hands to think while eating oranges, drinking tea, taking pills and napping when I can!

It's almost a reverse engineering process, which is great in itself! The motivation is linked with the prospect of upgrading substantially (rebuilding) the layout Lairet Sub (aka Hedleyville). This hobby is always a long shot one... Things I thought 4 years ago came back and I now have a clearer idea of where I'm going. The club too and that's a good thing. But don't worry, I still have two steamers to complete (CPR 2-8-0 and CNR 2-6-0)... I always suspected my love for ALCO design was because they are diesels with steamer cabs that run long hood forward! And I'm still waiting to see the next installment about your consolidations. That project is really fascinating and inspiring. I still want to build QRL&PCo 2-6-0 #22 some day and I have to use a heavily modified MDC Harriman boiler to do so just like you did.

Back on the RS18!

Great info as always. I have the same feeling as you about the delrin handrail: they're practical... that's all. Atlas stanchions + piano wire sounds a nice idea! The result is lovely on your locomotives!

As for the intercooler, I wasn't even aware of its existence when I did the CPR units.

Probably the one thing P1K did darn good well on its model was the intercooler. I'll check Jerome's RS10 tomorrow at the club meeting and will decide if I cast or print it.

Your safety cab is amazing! Mine was kitbashed from a GP40 resin cab... At that time, I glued everything with CA, didn't know about putty... and made gondola cover from plastic recovered from yogurt container!!! Anything goes on!

Thanks for the scans! It was a case where some fellow needed M420 info and never gave me back my copy, except the cover!

Matt

[BR60103]

Matt: Thank you for the reply.
Now, qu'est-ce que c'est qu'un "intercooler"?

[sailormatlac]

Matt: Thank you for the reply.
Now, qu'est-ce que c'est qu'un "intercooler"?

Il semble que ce soit une sorte de mécanisme de refroidissement dont j'ignore le fonctionnement précis. Just kidding!

As I said it'S a kind of mecanical device probably cooling down the engine but I don't no much about it. The intercooler on these locomotive is the mid-sized horizontal louvers protuding near the roof line just beside and up the radiator fan on the long hood end. The Atlas shell is render this detail nicely since you can see the coil behing the mesh.

Wiki says:

"An intercooler is any mechanical device used to cool a fluid, including liquids or gases, between stages of a multi-stage heating process, typically a heat exchanger that removes waste heat in a gas compressor. They are used in many applications, including air compressors, air conditioners, refrigerators, and gas turbines, and are widely known in automotive use as an air-to-air or air-to-liquid cooler for forced induction (turbocharged or supercharged) internal combustion engines to improve their volumetric efficiency by increasing intake air charge density through nearly isobaric (constant pressure) cooling."

Underscoring is by me, I'm curious to see how this apply to a RS10/11/18...

On ALCO, it was just some coil of tubing protectec by a mesh (king of chicken wire). On MLW, a more robust perforated plate was covering the intercooler. Probably to protect it in the same was a winterization hatch works on roof fans.

I guess some other guys here know a lot more than me, it wouldn't hurt to know better what we are modelling.

Matt

[doctorwayne]

Don't know why I didn't recognise the terminology, but I believe both the RS-10 (244 diesel engine) and the RS-18 (251 engine) are turbocharged, and the intercooler would be to cool the pressurised intake air - cooled air, greater amount of oxygen for combustion.

Wayne