Westbrook

[torikoos]

Good concept Reinhard, that's what I generally do. I have to admit I am working on (and far from complete I might add) getting a little closer to the prototype on my own home layout, but it will always be a compromise. I can't simply fit what I want in the space I have without compromise. So while I call it the California Northern, and in the meantime have some CFNR locos, have worked on collecting cars I've seen in videos (and still need several of other types more), have taken some liberties in the trackplans , and shortened my version of the loco servicing facilities at Napa Jct, at best I am going to be proto-freelancing, and that what most of us will be able to do at best.
I still have lots of research left, items to add, rolling stock to weather, time tables to set up etc, but that's all fun of this ever lasting hobby. My thread is showing my early steps in this project, and hopefully will eventually lead to a much closer representation of the real thing, documenting my progress over time, with comments , and suggestions from others chipped in.

Mal, I believe, is trying to achieve a similar thing. Perhaps not as close to a 'real' location as I am trying to do, but capturing the general look and feel, that 'could have been' as convincingly as possible given the available space etc.

I don't think for one minute he's trying to model the Guilford 100% accurate, but tries to give us a peek in to new england style railroading, and Guilford is one element that identifies 'New England' , as much as the SP says west coast, and FEC says Florida etc... (along with some scenic elements etc to enhance that feel).

In any case, what ever he does, I can tell the enjoyment that can be had from it, and enjoy the modeling regardless of locale, prototypical accuracy or whatnot.

Koos

[jwb]

If you want a "look and feel" of Guilford, try this thread <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thewhistlepost.com/forums/ho-scale/11046-winter-new-england-mark-ii.html">http://www.thewhistlepost.com/forums/ho ... rk-ii.html</a><!-- m --> It seems to me that what Mal is doing is taking a basically UK style track arrangement, or at best a Timesaver, and trying to hammer it into an area, northern New England, where the spaces are much more wide open and the industries not what Lance Mindheim would tell you to build. This probably works on a site like rmweb, where the philosophy of modeling is about the same for everyone. One problem is that for those in the US, it's clearer that the country is highly varied in scenery, industry, geography, and so forth. You can't just say my shunty-plank is New England because, you see, it has a Guilford GP40.

Here are some areas where Michael Cawdrey's version of New England is much closer to the area I know fairly well:

-- Trees and ground cover are convincingly modeled and suit the region
-- A backdrop reflects the region and the season
-- Trackage isn't forced into a timesaver-style urban switching scheme
-- There's no attempt to crowd too much into a small space
-- There's more understanding that the branch line era is earlier and thus more emphasis on MEC, B&M, and D&H equipment
-- There's more of a sense that you don't build an instant layout with a few kits

Night and day.

[Brakie]

OK, I'm not going to disagree that an ISL is prototypical. Lance Mindheim can point to an actual industrial spur in downtown Miami, and he shows that he's modeling it prototypically. However, not all railroads are good prototypes for ISLs. The Rio Grande narrow gauge is not a good prototype for an ISL. Neither is the NYO&W. Neither is its 21st century equivalent, Guilford. Westbrook, ME is largely a bedroom suburb that has a paper mill, but not an ISL style arrangement. I would actually challenge you or Alcanman to show me an "industrial park", defined as an area zoned for multiple industries, with active rail service, anywhere on Guilford.

You keep asking me to do research, but I seem to be the one who posts photos and links. Why not show us your own models, Brakie? How about photos of actual industrial parks you've taken lately? Seems to be a lot of talk but not much else.

Let's look to the real Guilford and see what we turn up.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.panamrailways.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=89_92&zenid=ddo54pkqqppq0pbskl7lo19sp1">http://www.panamrailways.com/index.php? ... kl7lo19sp1</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.panamrailways.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=89_91&zenid=ddo54pkqqppq0pbskl7lo19sp1">http://www.panamrailways.com/index.php? ... kl7lo19sp1</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.panamrailways.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=85_86&zenid=ddo54pkqqppq0pbskl7lo19sp1">http://www.panamrailways.com/index.php? ... kl7lo19sp1</a><!-- m -->

So,by checking we see Guilford/Pan-AM handles a lot of freight including boxcars.

You ever hear of a urban industrial branch? This is a branch that serves several industries as it winds its way through a urban area.

Here's the thing..Ever think Westbrook could be Westbrook Street,Westbrook Ave or the name of the guy that developed the land for industrial use? Industrial parks and urban branch lines may not be named after the city its located in..

Lance's EastRail or Downtown Spur names doesn't give you a clue where its located.

As far as your photos I can link to Google or Bing maps and show you industries without any cars and vise versa and would prove nothing.

Another question is how did Mal's Westbrook, New York become Westbrook, Maine?

[jonte]

-- There's more of a sense that you don't build an instant layout with a few kits.

That's me off the hook then

Jonte

[Catt]

Thanks Jacques, glad someone likes the layout

Mal, he is not the only one.As far as I am concerned it is your layout and if you think it is in New England that is fine with me after all it is YOUR layout.By the way they do have farms in the New England area and they do grown grain and have livestock that eat it.

Above all else it is your layout and you really are the only one who counts.(But you do have a few fans of your little layout here. )

[eightyeightfan1]

To echo Catt's words, It is your layout, do what you feel is right.
Unless your scenery is sand, tumble weeds,scrub brush, cacti or palm trees, , having a hills covered with forest, cuts and tunnels, small villages along the line, could be anywhere else in the United States from New England, to the Northwest. It all depends on what name is painted on the loco. Usually that sets the location of your railroad. Though you do see UP
locos lashed up with BNSF's on Class 1's, on regional, like the Guilford, its very rare.

I could take my Housatonic Railroad GP-35's and smack them down on a friends layout based in Washington State and call it Connecticut. Unless he has signs with known local businesses and industries, or HO scale Washington State lisence plates on his vehicles, you would probably never know the difference. I have had "rivet couunters" show me pictures of their layouts and say this is such and such area."Oh...Really?. and you went out and measured it then modeled every square inch?. I don't think so".

You're a freelancer. Run what you want, when you want, and call it what you want.
It's your railroad. Just have fun doing it.

[alcanman]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your support and encouragement.

The layout was never intended to be 100% prototypical. My main interest is model railroads and building small layouts.

Although I'm interested in prototype railroads and practice, I don't try to model a specific prototpe location, merely a representation of the area.

Small space modelling usually involves a lot of compromise together with a lot of modeller's license.

If I understand jwb correctly he would prefer I should call the layout 'Somewhere in the USA' and run undecorated locos!


Mal

[Brakie]

I could take my Housatonic Railroad GP-35's and smack them down on a friends layout based in Washington State and call it Connecticut. Unless he has signs with known local businesses and industries, or HO scale Washington State lisence plates on his vehicles, you would probably never know the difference.
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Absolutely! With ISLs you are modeling the business side of industries that the general public seldom sees and with todays concrete box style buildings one style fits all from coast to coast.Slate Creek or Westbrook can be anywhere USA and still be 100% correct--until you start adding signs on the rear sides of buildings that is and that really limits down to a certain area.There are non location named industries such as Mid State warehousing General American Plastics etc.

Your Housatonic Railroad GP-35's or Mal's Guilford locomotives would be at home on Slate Creek and still be completely believable.

[faraway]

I shot this photo in the USA and it is typical for Westbrook?

[Brakie]

Reinhard,Very typical of any city USA that has industries..

That's a great photo that shows the "wrong side" of the industry since its a plain wall with dock doors.

Seems the "shoe box" design is all the rage throughout the land..

The sad part is the manufacturers are still cramming steam era buildings down our throats.

[Catt]

The sad part is the manufacturers are still cramming steam era buildings down our throats.

Funny I had guy from one of the bigger laser companies tell that modern buildings don't sell because nobody models modern times. I asked how he knew that and his answer was "It's common knoledge that nobody models modern stuff" Then I asked him if that was true why were so many people buying modern locos and freight cars.He just walked away .

[torikoos]

That is just plain silly of that representative Catt. The only reason modern buildings don't sell is because there's not enough of them (on a budget) around.
There are some, but they cost a fortune in comparison to some others (there are some exceptions, but we need more than just the well known Pikestuff buildings).
While it is probably true that a large proportion model steam & transition era, the 'modern' modelers will only grow in number. After all, we're approaching the second transition era (from 1st to 2nd or even 3rd gen diesels) , because the modelers of today identify with that, it's what they know.

Manufacturers will have to follow suit.

Koos

[switcher1]

'Modern' image modellers are known to have a hard time getting most things in RTR, because 'nobody wants it'.

How modern is modern? British Railways fans have had no steam operated railways since the 60's, that's over 50 years ago.

So, third generation diesels are now running on American rails, that begs the question 'when did steam die out in America' - likely over 60 years ago, (I have no actual knowledge). So why don't manufacturers make 'modern' model buildings (?!).

Why do so many modellers choose to model the steam period? Likely because there was more variety in rolling stock & operations, plus shorter trains. The British used to model branch lines, & when I first got interested in 'American', it was usually a shortline that was modelled.

[alcanman]

The Westbrook warehouse was recycled from 2 smaller warehouses from my old Deerfield Beach layout, which, in turn, was built from Walthers Cornerstone 'Magic Pan Bakeries'

To get more out of a kit like this I simply use 60 thou styrene sheet for back the back of the structure. I added some styrene strip to hid the joins.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2915">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2915</a><!-- m -->

This is an excellent kit, very versatile, and includes 4 silos which could for used for another industry eg plastic pellets.

   

So ,there are a few 'modern' structure kits out there.

Mal

[Brakie]

Modern' image modellers are known to have a hard time getting most things in RTR, because 'nobody wants it'.
-----------------------------------------
True enough but,they turn around and release modern cars and locomotives. The closest I can get is Walthers "Bud's Trucking" and "Lauston Shipping" background buildings and those are dated metal buildings.

However..Seeing what Mal did with Walthers "Magic Pan" has given me a idea.


I think Mal and others has done a excellent job modeling a modern industry and ISLs.