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Hi,
According to informations I could track back, Clermont's Donohue Paper Mill on CN Murray Bay Sub received a lot of peroxyde and other similar chemicals (and it is still the case).
What were typical cars used for this service in Canada during the 70s and early 80s. I found many old pictures of canadian paper mills but you rarely see the tank cars on them. From pictures from the late 60s, I know a lot of 10 000 galloon tank cars were seen on trains going to Clermont. ORER also indicate that CGTX maintained those old cars in service well into the 80s.
Any idea? Any information is welcomed!
Thanks!
Matt
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You can find this stuff pretty easily on Bing, or go to a specialist forum such as one on Canadian paper manufacturing. You can even contact the paper plants directly and they will furnish photos of equipment, all accomplished over the 'net.
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No offense intended, but IF Bing (or whatever I used) did bring some substantial results I wouldn't be here asking! I scrolled down thousands of ORER listing to find some infos (which I found but were too recent).
Anyway, you pointed out interested ideas, but as for a forum about Canadian Paper Manufacturing, no such thing exist (at least, they are well hidden in the woods or behind a rock). Same thing about paper mills. Their websites have minimal informations about contacting them online, except if you are worried about your retirement or an investor. Most paper mill in Eastern Canada (particularly my area) went through many consolidation, bankruptcy and other nasty economical issues, thus, they probably don't have any ressources to find archives stuff for wannabe modellers like me. I've been trying asking people of the area but they didn't care about what moved on rail thus their memories are useless for that matter. Anyway, I'll try to contact Clermont paper mill via a good old letter since only their mail address is available... or maybe phone call them.
My best chance is trying to find someone who worked there and still have minimal knowledge about how the mill was run in the old days. It's where I am now standing and I'm waiting to see if some of my contacts could be useful. Unfortunately, my family members that worked there are all dead since a long time already.
I suspect some long time railfans here have seen plenty of action at north american paper mills back then and could be able to give some hints here and there to help focus my search.
***EDIT*** found some relevant informations on a forum and a Yahoo Group...
Thanks again...
Matt
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sailormatlac Wrote:No offense intended, but IF Bing (or whatever I used) did bring some substantial results I wouldn't be here asking! I scrolled down thousands of ORER listing to find some infos (which I found but were too recent).
Anyway, you pointed out interested ideas, but as for a forum about Canadian Paper Manufacturing, no such thing exist (at least, they are well hidden in the woods or behind a rock). Same thing about paper mills. Their websites have minimal informations about contacting them online, except if you are worried about your retirement or an investor. Most paper mill in Eastern Canada (particularly my area) went through many consolidation, bankruptcy and other nasty economical issues, thus, they probably don't have any ressources to find archives stuff for wannabe modellers like me. I've been trying asking people of the area but they didn't care about what moved on rail thus their memories are useless for that matter. Anyway, I'll try to contact Clermont paper mill via a good old letter since only their mail address is available... or maybe phone call them.
My best chance is trying to find someone who worked there and still have minimal knowledge about how the mill was run in the old days. It's where I am now standing and I'm waiting to see if some of my contacts could be useful. Unfortunately, my family members that worked there are all dead since a long time already.
I suspect some long time railfans here have seen plenty of action at north american paper mills back then and could be able to give some hints here and there to help focus my search.
***EDIT*** found some relevant informations on a forum and a Yahoo Group...
Thanks again...
Matt
Hmmm...odd, since I found photos on my first try. Basically, the tankers are standard such as would be used for anything, pretty much, and then dedication to H 2O 2 or Koalin or bleach or whatever.
In any event, good luck with it.
Oh, BTW - this photo says "Pulp, wood chips and coal. Apparently these cars and the tankers with them are headed for a paper mill? Found on Bing, first try.
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Hydrogen peroxide tank car...<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://freight.railfan.ca/kcpx/kcpx17015.jpg">http://freight.railfan.ca/kcpx/kcpx17015.jpg</a><!-- m -->
Kaolin taker...<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.jeffstrainsite.com/railfan_pics/Industrial_Railcars/tankcars/natx/natx_tankcar_140108.jpg">http://www.jeffstrainsite.com/railfan_p ... 140108.jpg</a><!-- m -->
Bing...second attempt tonight. 8-)
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lots of links here Matt
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=canadian+pulp+and+paper+association&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8">https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... 8&oe=UTF-8</a><!-- m -->
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Thanks guys!
Funny how depending on wording on search engines you can get different stuff, but all that stuff is quite modern by my modelling era (late 70s, early 80s). Finding older stuff is a different matter thought.
Just to let you know since I posted this thread, I was on a lucky string of events. A guy from a local railfanning group invited me to their archives and we finally found 3 albums of pictures taken in 1982-1983 in Quebec City Area. Tank car were white, UTLX, of same design as Atlas Kaolin cars, carried chemicals (no slurry) and were lettered to the paper mill itself, in this case, Reed Paper (a now defunct company). According to the guy, most tank cars serving the paper mills at that time were leased by UTLX.
Thanks again!
Matt
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Sometimes, it is better to "get to know the product being shipped, than to ask how to ship it"
http://www.usclayproducers.org/documents...h-2010.pdf
Might give you some insight as to how Kaolin might be shipped as a dry commodity, rather than a slurry, which is what is more commonly the load of a tank car.
At least it may give you some choices.
We always learn far more from our own mistakes, than we will ever learn from another's advice.
The greatest place to live life, is on the sharp leading edge of a learning curve.
Lead me not into temptation.....I can find it myself!
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That is a very interesting read whether your interested in kaolin or not.Thank's for the link.
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"
"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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Thanks Sumpter!!!! Very, very interesting stuff there!  More marine-oriented than rail-oriented, but still eye opening. No wonder we see more hopper than slurry tanks nowadays (at least in my area). The Kaolin Industry graph crash in 2008 is particularly talkative about the reason behind this change in transportation.
That said, my researches paid off and I now have a better understanding of what I'm doing. I'm no expert, but at least I know chemicals involved in paper making and their specific roles. It will makes operating more interesting than just shuffling randomly cars in 4 sidings.
Hope one of our member (who owns the basement sheltering the layout) will come back from vacation as soon as possible. Time to build some tracks and keep these ideas rolling.
Matt
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