Fiddling with layout ideas

[MasonJar]

Matt,

You should check out Trevor Marshall's blog. He's modelling a short branch line in the 1950s and has two stations with industries and a turntable in a relatively short distance. He's in S scale.

themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s should get you there.

Andrew

[sailormatlac]

I like the Wye ( #2).
I would think a two track staging area ?
with the Wye, there would be switching possibilities there, as well as in the industrial area.
just a thought.

A wye is indeed much fun to operate than a turntable, that's a given. You can see the loco travel much more on the layout that way.

Matt,

You should check out Trevor Marshall's blog. He's modelling a short branch line in the 1950s and has two stations with industries and a turntable in a relatively short distance. He's in S scale.

themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s should get you there.

Andrew

I do check, trust me! I'm actually making a 4th version that is much more coherent with this one.

Matt

[Brakie]

Looking at your layout ideas the first thing that popped into my mind was "Mixed Train Daily" by Lucius Beebe.

I can picture a old and weary 2-8-0 pulling 2-3 cars with a combine bringing up the markers.

[sailormatlac]

Looking at your layout ideas the first thing that popped into my mind was "Mixed Train Daily" by Lucius Beebe.

I can picture a old and weary 2-8-0 pulling 2-3 cars with a combine bringing up the markers.

Excellent! That's exactly the kind of feeling I am striking for!

These old color pictures from Old Time Trains provided a wealth of inspiration:





http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CP...allery.htm

Looks like it's the area Doctorwayne is getting his inspiration from to (Elora).

Matt

[MasonJar]

I love the CPR Bruce branches. I actually grew up in Orangeville, which was a division point and "gateway" to the Bruce. Every so often, I debate switching from CNR to CPR...!

The CPR used 4-6-0s extensively on their branches, and right to the end of steam, so you can do any time from 1900 to 1950+ with them.

Trevor's site also has an "achievable layouts" sections with ideas for the Elora branch from Cataract to Elora. Lots of good information in a short page.

If you pursue this idea, let me know. I have several references that you might find handy.

Andrew

[MasonJar]

Also, you should look at J Richard Wakefield's Bruce layout. The layout itself is now dismantled because of a move 10 years ago, but it's still inspirational. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mcswiz.com/MyLayout/Homepage.asp">http://www.mcswiz.com/MyLayout/Homepage.asp</a><!-- m -->

Andrew

[sailormatlac]

I love the CPR Bruce branches. I actually grew up in Orangeville, which was a division point and "gateway" to the Bruce. Every so often, I debate switching from CNR to CPR...!

The CPR used 4-6-0s extensively on their branches, and right to the end of steam, so you can do any time from 1900 to 1950+ with them.

Trevor's site also has an "achievable layouts" sections with ideas for the Elora branch from Cataract to Elora. Lots of good information in a short page.

If you pursue this idea, let me know. I have several references that you might find handy.

Andrew

Bruce branches are really interesting prototype. Truly a paradise for model railroaders.

Ah! I have the same problem, I'm basically a CNR guy at heart, but for some reason, I always find CPR branchlines more inspirational for branchline layouts.

I agree, a CPR 4-6-0 is a must see. I have actually a 4-4-0 and a 2-8-0 undergoing surgery since 2011... I should complete them. Not perfect, but that could fill up the roster for a while. I was a little bit harsh with Rapido's announcement for steam locomotives, but I think including the 4-6-0 (both CN and CP) among the first released was their best idea. They are the best locos for mixed freight.

I have not set the layout in a specific time. Such remote rural places hardly changed from during the first half of the 20th. Basically, you change the road vehicles and rolling stock and that an entirely different era. You can even run small diesel road switchers well into the early 1960s. Most of these branches definitely died out in the mid 60s. In fact, if I go back in the pre-1920 era, I could prototypically operate the daily MEC train.

Anyway, I took into account everybody's opinion and tried to make something out of these ideas. The end results is not far from a merge between both Hereford and Temiscouata, but in fact, it is pure coincidence. I totally reengineered the layout taking in account three main aspects:

-Scene composition: three areas of similar importance, from left to right: low, medium and high density. It helps define the layout as a place where you travel to reach a destination. Also, all structures or group of features are by group of three. In the medium density area you find a meadow with 3 small railway structures (tank car, speeder shed and tool shed). In the high density you find a station, a freight shed and a feedmill/warehouse. For visual (and practical) interest, the mainline must travel between them. I love when I can see a train run behind a structure and wanted it on the layout.

-Operation: Trevor Marshall (once again!) was of a big indirect help. I tried to understand how trains were handled at Port Rowan and finally got a grasp of what was branchline railroading. Further reading of many stories in old Canadian Rail magazine and Old Time Trains on the web provided other pertinent example. In fact, many terminals - which I thought the track plan didn't make sense - finally became clear as water to me. Knowing that, I was able to determine the exact lenght in inches each move required by taking in account car and locomotive dimensions. At some point, my layout plan was nothing more than a series of scale diagrams depicting turnout zones and cars. I found out very little track lenght is needed to handle a small mixed train (a loco + 2 freight cars + 1 combine + 1 coach). A very good thing! This exercise also provided me with a crucial information: the exact location of the station. It was determined by the place where the passenger cars must align when the train reach the end of steel. Once I knew that, two parameters were set in stone: not only the station location, but also the exact place where the transition between medium and high density should be set.

-Industries: The third aspect was not as easy to understand. I stayed up to 2 A.M. for two days, trying to fight that "I want it all" mentality. To get it right, I tried to understand what a small community like East Hereford would need from a railroad back in the steam era. You can sum it up as the Holy Trinity as Jim Dufour likened it: wood products, farm products and fuel. Passengers are also a part of it, but that's a given. Add to this the railway requirements about turning and fueling the engine and you get a general picture. In this regard, Tyson Rayles' excellent observation was useful about the turning facilities. I don't need any. Doing it in staging makes more sense. Anyway, I did many measurement of my available space and for MANY reasons I can't build the extension. Worst, I'm quite a short guy and I can't reach the yard throat without a stool! No way I'm going to operate a layout I can't uncouple cars without some apparatus. I did that with the club layout back in the days and I got rid of all that during the rebuild... Lesson learned. Anyway, all that to say only a water tank will be required.The train isn't sleeping at Hereford, it's just making a round trip.



Here's the results. The topography will be more dramatic than a sheet of styrofoam and I used the topographic map from 1921 to understand well the area in which the "real" Hall's Stream station (East Hereford) was located. The meadow will be about 5 to 7 feet lower than the track roadbed per prototype. I'll also model the right of way correctly with the fences and the wild raspberry growing within the property according to old accounts. I walked the remains of Hereford Railway last summer and was able to eat lots of them. That branchline didn't get it's nickname for nothing! They exported it by carload to New England cities back in the days and the daily train would make dedicated stop along the track to pick up the berries from local people.



Matt

[MasonJar]

Matt...

Looks great! I really like the gradual transition into the station area. Very much like Trevor's approach and the scenes you see in Ian Wilson's books.

One comment I have is that often, the passenger car would be left at the station while throat her switching jobs were completed. With the end of the run around right in front of the station, the passenger car blocks the use of this. Moving the station to the left would let the rest of the train escape, but would limit the use of the run around. Moving the station to the right would mean that the passenger car would have to undergo some switching of its own to get it spotted at the platform.

I'm not sure yet what to do about this - it's just an observation...

Andrew

[sailormatlac]

Matt...

Looks great! I really like the gradual transition into the station area. Very much like Trevor's approach and the scenes you see in Ian Wilson's books.

One comment I have is that often, the passenger car would be left at the station while throat her switching jobs were completed. With the end of the run around right in front of the station, the passenger car blocks the use of this. Moving the station to the left would let the rest of the train escape, but would limit the use of the run around. Moving the station to the right would mean that the passenger car would have to undergo some switching of its own to get it spotted at the platform.

I'm not sure yet what to do about this - it's just an observation...

Andrew

Andrew, the exact location of each building will be decided when I'll mock up the scene in 1/87. If you study Port Rowan and other Ontario's branchlines, you'll find out the same problem occured with real station. It's why I said I didn't understand how some stations did work in real life. The same occured at Connors too. In fact, many, many, many small town station were located directly or nearby a turnout. That's a classic arrangement (for through station or terminus).

At Port Rowan, the passenger cars did block the escape pocket. Trevor has the same "problem". The answer is to push the train back after passengers leaves the car and LCL is handled. Then you can perform the switching moves. When everything is done and the train is rebuild for the return trip, you move it back at the station. Doing this helps me to keep the lead smaller so I can have a longer runaround to handle decent sized mixed trains (from 5 to 7 cars).

The funny thing is that I think the layout would look awesome if operated as a MEC branchline in the late 1920s too.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I started to build the layout benchwork. Sorry if I have no photo. My camera suffered a disastrous fall on a pile of crushed bricks on a worksite and doesn't focus well anymore.

I slightly altered the plan after studying dozens of real locations and Jim Dufour & Rob Clark layouts. I quickly came to the conclusion the layout shouldn't be anymore than a siding and a team track. Also, the layout footprint is now 13" x 120". I removed 5" because is was far too obstructive in my office room. I also removed the staging track. The train will be directly stage on the layout. I know it's not the best thing out there, but I prefer to comprise on that. Later, if I want to do something with the module, it will be easier to add a new section.

For practically and weight issue, the benchwork is made of two modules. They are built in lauan and cabinet grade plywood. Their weight is minimal and they are very sturdy. Only one layer of foam will be added, probably 1.5". I like the look of raised roadbed and that should work fine.

I finally decided to not follow any particular prototype but will keep with the Quebec-US border theme. A lot of railways competed there, often owned by american roads (D&H, Central Vermont, Rutland, Maine Central, etc.). Most of them faltered between 1900 and the late 1930s. Most locomotives were oddball bought second hand from various railroads and I even saw pictures of camelback. I'm seriously thinking about setting the layout in the 1930s to use my old rolling stock.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I've did my homework over the last weeks and finally came to the conclusion Temiscouata (Connors) was probably my best bet as a matter of operation, space and prototype. It can fit on a 13" wide shelf which is the maximum I'm ready to give this project. I also found timetables and many other snippet about operations and goods moved to Connors. There was also a small deluxe hotel in Connors for wealthy fishing and game hunting amateurs. I've come to the conclusion the turntable/engine house will be a separate module.

I'm still unsure about the modelling era but little thing changed in Connors from 1891 to the Great Depression. I have two choices. Pre-CNR or post-CNR. Going pre-CNR means much variety in roadnames (Canadian Northern, Intercolonial, Grand Trunk, etc.) and shorter cars which is an advantage for a small layout. Going post-CNR (pre-Depression) means more readily available cars. Anyway, that's not a question that matters that much right now.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I finalized Connors' track plan. It is as accurate as I could using an old panoramic photo from 1894 and other sources. I didn't use any selective compression. What you see is the real thing. It's nice to see it really fits perfectly on 3 modules.



Matt