THE NEXT WARNING! Scaletrains GEVO Tier 4
#1
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/8107/files/DCC_and_sound_doc_for_GEVO.pdf?15904418955872520084">https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/ ... 5872520084</a><!-- m -->
When i read this, i had to think to this thread: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9414">viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9414</a><!-- l -->
Cheers Lutz
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#2
Thanks for the information.
Good to know. Buy the DC version and install the (sound) decoder of your choice. That kind of models is by far large enough to install almost everything you like.
The draw back is that you have to choose what light options will be used. In the case of the GMD-1 did I not connect the markers at all and wired the number boards parallel to the front and rear lights. That permitted correctly flashing front and rear ditch light.
Reinhard
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#3
Faraway,
i have two of this beasts on preorder. DC version certainly.
And when i read the service bulletin, i thought it will become not so simply to convert these locos to DCC and sound. Not just plug and play another decoder with MTC21 interface. Icon_twisted As with the ESU made motherboards there must be hard wired logic elements onto them. They must also be "secret" just as the secret, not documented, pins in the MTC21 plug and ESU decoder. It will be the best way to discard the motherboards too and order PNP decoders from Sounddtraxx.
As i am not so common with modern today railroad practices, i had to set about to use of lights on a locomotive.
Cheers Lutz
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#4
faraway Wrote:Thanks for the information.
Good to know. Buy the DC version and install the (sound) decoder of your choice. That kind of models is by far large enough to install almost everything you like.
The draw back is that you have to choose what light options will be used. In the case of the GMD-1 did I not connect the markers at all and wired the number boards parallel to the front and rear lights. That permitted correctly flashing front and rear ditch light.
Reinhard, CN does not have flashing ditch lights, as you can see here.
https://youtu.be/LP8umB9PoeQ?t=58s
They use it like the German "Drei-Licht-Spitzensignal"
Thomas

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#5
Meanwhile the GEVO has arrived here overseas:

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First look into the Operator's Manual.




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A first look under the shell.




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Front end. It looks like the cab floor is were it belongs to (height)




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The motherboard with the logic gates. The ominous DIP circuit breakers are visible just right beside the DC plug. They are coverd by a yellowisch transparency film.
Unknowingly what "secret" lights they are covering, neither in the bulletin <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/8107/files/DCC_and_sound_doc_for_GEVO.pdf?15904418955872520084">https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/ ... 5872520084</a><!-- m --> , nor in the Operator's Manual anything is told about.
Note 1: The LEDs arranged in the shell are connected by magnet wire.
Note 2: Wire colour code is somewhat to works standard Neu-Ulm or so ... But not to NMRA Standards.





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Rear end. There is a massive weight block under the radiator hold by two screws. There is enough space for big speakers.

This was a first glance. Work will be continued when the ordered decoders have arrived.
Cheers Lutz
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#6
What decoder did you order? ESU 21Pin or Tsunami2 21Pin or Tsunami2 PNP to rebuild the electronic from scratch?

The clear statement to use ESU decoders is the way ESU/Maerklin destroyed the open German market. I wonder all reviews are fine. Is NMRA sleeping.....

ps. Tsunami 2 is very hard to get this days. I need a bunch of EMD PNP but Germany and UK are sold out. Known and trusted sources in the US are dry as well. US eBay Trainz claims to have plenty on stock as usual but a short phone call and it is all baloney as usual.
Reinhard
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#7
Reinhard,

several weeks ago i ordered the two TSU-2 for these locos in PNP shape, so i am still waiting for delivery too.

There is a third loco involved, but this is an Intermountain GE ET44 DC and here i will try it with the 21-Pin MTC decoder, fortunately they are on stock at RD. The motherboard in the Intermountain ET44 DC is not so clouded in secercy.
This enables me also to make some trials with the TSU-2 21-Pin MTC in one of the Scale Trains GEVOs.

And i can say to all here in a very sarcastically manner: "Herzlich willkommen im Chaos der deutschen Werksnormen!"
My attempt to tanslate: "A heartily welcome in the chaotic world of German model railroad company standards. We warrant that nothing is compatible, if you buy the products of our rival competitor, you buy at your own risk." :wait:


@ Reinhard, hope to meet you at the Convention <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.us-convention-brd.de/">http://www.us-convention-brd.de/</a><!-- m -->
Cheers Lutz
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#8
Now the ordered Soundtraxx Tsunami2 Decoders arrived:

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These are the last version 1.2 which contains the correct GEVO G12 Tier4 soundfiles also.




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So it looks alike when the shell is taken off. The magnet wires are for the DPU lights which only the CN versions have.





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The trouble starts here if you are not a devotional fan of ESU. The anchoring supports are not of common type, but are of unique works standard.




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Also most of the wires are color coded according to works standards and not to NMRA conformity. The rear end of the motherboard




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The front end of the motherboard. Here are two more wires for the number board lights.




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The whole motherboard made by ESU and with analog plug off. Note the lots of logic modules. Note also there are more soldering pads. And some of them may be "secret" and only acessible by ESU decoders. Time to get rid of this stuff.




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But it is not as easy as it first seamed to be. I ungarbled the wires and followed the course of the different wires were the lead to. Also i made memos on a sheet of paper. When i had noticed where the wires lead to an the color of them, i soldered the wires off. A little bit overcautious, but later it can avoiding guesswork.




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And off is the MFB (no, i will not spell it out because this is a family friendly forum), here the underside with still a lot more logic modules.




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My notices.

To be continued.
Cheers Lutz
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#9
So it looks alike when the motherboard is gone:
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Next it to remove the weight block.




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Scaletrains made very nice universal joints. They are on both ends and the shaft is telescoping.




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The removed worm shaft looks as usual with it's square bearings.




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My usual conditioning relating to eliminate diagonal stiffness. Both trucks come out of the same mould and both had these halfmoon shaped bolsters.
I measured the thickness, here it was 0.8mm. Then i measured the thickness of my washers, here it is 0.4mm. So a pile of two of these washers will replace the bolsters. The washers were glued onto the base of the pivot pin.




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Then the bolsters were removed. This long loco with a rather long distance between the truck pivots is no more diagonal stiff.

To be continued
Cheers Lutz
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#10
Hello,

and some updates:

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This is the space intended for the very special speaker.




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To get rid of the limits set by Scaletrains and ESU, you have to grasp for coarse actions.




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And further goes the hacksaw.
The fine alignments were done by the bench grinder 8-)




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Drilling new bores for the new motherboard. The no longer needed embossements for the ESU motherboard were eliminated. This was done simply by pushing them easy onto the rotating grinding wheel of the bench grinder seen on the right side of the photo. And off they go.




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Then the new bores were tapped.




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So it looks alike now.




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New distance tubes were cut out of a suitable plastic tube.




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Now a professional mounting of the new decoder can be done. Enabled by eliminating Scaletrains and ESU works standards.

This also shows the dangers and hassles generated by individual "Works Standards". Here in Germany the non-standard is the rule and you have to pay a lot of attention what will fit together and what do not. A strongly welcome into the world of arcaic German "Works-Standards".
My advise: Do not give up NMRA Standards!
Cheers Lutz
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#11
Hello,

until now i was dealing with the mechanical installation of the preferred decoder and speaker.

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As user SRY told earlier in this thread, the ditch light are not flashing on CN locos. So it is possible and easy going to connect the ditchlights together with the headlights and map them also to function button f1.
To get a tidy wiring i made a cluster of resistors for the different LEDs.




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Keep tidy, messy it will become alone. Wink A piece of black self adhesive Coroplast insulation tape was mounten under the resistors onto the metal block for my sleep well. Also this was done to other critical points.




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Here these LEDs are wired now:
- front light
- front ditch lights
- number board lights
- rear headlight
- rear ditch lights




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And now the DPU lights with their thin magnet wire are wired too. They are wired to separate function outputs. Now all of the mounted LEDs are acessible by the decoder without secret outputs.
Before reattaching the shell a complete function test was made.




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The shell fits without jamming or tricks and i can start programming the decoder to my needs. Still one point to do; making of adhesive stickers: "100% ESU-Free"




What remains:
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Note:, that is not a decoder, it is only a mother board.

My resume about Scaletrains.
Scaletrains is very submissive to ESU and their works standards and obliged their customers to do also. Good for ESU-fanatics, but not all customers like ESU products. I ask myself why they try to penalize those customers who simply want to plug in their preferred brand of decoders. But this is torpedoed by Scaletrains by some strange behavior like the deviation of familar standards and agreements.
E.g. resulting:
- not convenient space and mounting for replacement motherboards (Atlas, Intermountain and Bowser is no problem to install it) , here only the ESU works standard motherboard fits
- non-standard pin assigment of the otherwise standardized MTC21 connector ("foreign" decoders wil not work)
- non standard coupler box (no way to mount Kadees without milling)
- non standard wire colour code

If i might have desires for more such Diesel locos, then i will not purchase Sclaletrains products which are compulsorily connected with ESU behavior, but will choose the alternative options. Athough the motherboard in the Intermountain GE ES44DC also was made by ESU, there is a quick and simply plug-and-play task to change out decoders for your preferred brand of your own choice.

And a strange experience. When i had plugged in the new sound decoder into my Intermountain ES44DC, the previously there provided ESU decoder was a left over. So why not plug it in into one of the Scaletrains ET44AC Tier4`s? Both have the MTC21 connector and done. But then just the same decoder, which worked flawless in the Intermountain before, failed here in the Scaletrains. Why :?:

Thank you for watching my remarks about digitalizing some locos.
Cheers Lutz
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#12
Lutz,

In your original post, the code below is what I see on my end.  How'd that happen?    

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/8107/files/DCC_and_sound_doc_for_GEVO.pdf?15904418955872520084">https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/ ... 5872520084</a><!-- m -->

When i read this, i had to think to this thread: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9414">viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9414</a><!-- l -->
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#13
Seamus,

the dysfunctional links are is since the forum switched over to the new software. This is a case for the admins.

Here the links (newly set and i hope they will work):
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/8...r_GEVO.pdf?

https://www.bigbluetrains.com/showthread.php?tid=8481
Cheers Lutz
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#14
(11-27-2018, 04:19 AM)Schraddel Wrote: Seamus,

the dysfunctional links are is since the forum switched over to the new software. This is a case for the admins.

Here the links (newly set and i hope they will work):
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/8...r_GEVO.pdf?

https://www.bigbluetrains.com/showthread.php?tid=8481

 Thanks, Lutz.  As a newbie here I wasn't aware of the changeover.  I'll let them know. Your link works fine.

By the way, those are fabulous photos of the "surgery" on the loco!
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