Surviving 36ft Boxcars in the 50s

[sailormatlac]

Hi folk!

I'm actually in the process of rebuilding cars or building kits for my Harlem Station layout set in 1952. In my stash, I have several double sheathed wood boxcars, mainly Roundhouse and Train Miniature stuff.

I'm curious to know if some older upgraded 36ft boxcars survived up until the early 1950s. I know the answer is new since many of them were built in the late 1910s and during the 1920s, but the question is more about specific prototypes. I recall Southern Pacific did have a sizeable fleet if my memories serves me. To be honest, I'm not looking for oddballs.

Best regards,

Matt

[Charlie B]

Hi Matt. do a google image search for "36 foot box cars 1952" and see if anything that comes up helps.
Charlie

[cnrglen]

Hi Matt,
I'm not sure how many were still around in the early fifties but I've heard of some very old truss-rod cars being used as storage at some branching stations during that time. I'm currently building a outside/ double sheathed boxcar that I'll still use on my late 50's layout.

[doctorwayne]

There were still lots of 36' Fowler boxcars in service in the '50s, especially in Canada, as they were the preferred car for shipping grain from light-rail branches in western Canada. However, they were single sheathed cars.
The Southern had a large fleet (about 15,000) of Su-class 36' double sheathed boxcars. They were built in the mid-'20s, and began to be scrapped in the early-to-mid '50s. They were built with truss rods and steel underframes, and would have originally been riding on archbar trucks. The latter would have had to have been replaced in 1953.
Here's a model of an Su boxcar...

   

Similarly, Southern, Seaboard, Atlantic Coast Line, and Florida East Coast all had extensive rosters of 36' double sheathed ventilated boxcars for shipping produce, and I'm sure they would've lasted at least until the mid '50s. Here's a Seaboard "watermelon car"...

   

Wayne

[e-paw]

Most anthracite lines, the Reading in particular, kept a fleet of 36 footers in service for as long as possible. The main reason for this is that a good number of on line customers had loading docks set up with doors spaced for 36 foot cars. These customers were unwilling or unable to modify their facilities because of space or money problems.


I remember an old American Standard plant on the city line between Jersey City and Bayonne that had a loading dock that started out straight, then curved around the rear of the building. This set up was common in New Jersey's Industrial urban areas. You were still able to see that the loading doors were spaced for 36 foot cars into the 90's, with every other door bricked up and the curved portion taken out of service. So the legacy of the 36 foot boxcar hung around for a while.

[sailormatlac]

Hi folks,

Thanks for the insightful answers.

@Charlie: We think similarly. I did exactly the same Google search with little results before asking, but only older Doctorwayne answers popped up! It's why I started to believe they were now longer around.

@Glen: A lot of them indeed were still active but generally in captive service. I've seen countless of old QRL&PCo double sheathed 36ft boxcars on 50s pictures (as far as 1959). A few of them were riding on arch bar trucks and even Fox trucks! Indeed, the lettering was spartan, showing they were no longer used in interchange. I've modelled a few of them a few years ago.

@Doctorwayne: Incendently Erie was an early proponent of Fowler cars and a few were still in service in my era. I recently bought a Westerfield Erie kit. If I understand well, the Su-class still ran on arch-bar truck until 1953? That's interesting! How did you model the peculiar steel/truss road underframe? Did you use drawings or pictures to model yours? You did a terrific job bringing life to these models. The ventilated boxcars are quite interesting for Harlem Station since they received a lot of fresh fruits for New York markets.

@epaw: Do you have more details about the Reading car road numbers or class numbers? I'd be curious to search a little bit more about them. Reading cars were regular at Harlem Station.

Best regards,

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Most anthracite lines, the Reading in particular, kept a fleet of 36 footers in service for as long as possible. The main reason for this is that a good number of on line customers had loading docks set up with doors spaced for 36 foot cars. These customers were unwilling or unable to modify their facilities because of space or money problems.


I remember an old American Standard plant on the city line between Jersey City and Bayonne that had a loading dock that started out straight, then curved around the rear of the building. This set up was common in New Jersey's Industrial urban areas. You were still able to see that the loading doors were spaced for 36 foot cars into the 90's, with every other door bricked up and the curved portion taken out of service. So the legacy of the 36 foot boxcar hung around for a while.

Did some search and found out F&C offers a few Reading 36' boxcars. They list them as in service up to 1953.

Matt

[doctorwayne]

Matt, the construction of the Southern Su car is shown in this thread...

<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5175">viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5175</a><!-- l -->

....partway down page four. Many of those cars had their archbar trucks replaced before the 1941 ban, although that date was revised to 1953, after the U.S. entered WWII.

According to Ted Culotta's Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. I, the Erie had 6500 36' Fowler boxcars. However, by the close of the '40s, only a handful remained.

Wayne

[sailormatlac]

Thank you very much Wayne, this is a terrific tutorial you did! Looks like a very fun build. The Hutchin ends are gorgeous! ;-) Do you know how much SU-class boxcars were in service by 1952?

You're right about the Erie Fowler cars. They were almost wiped out by the early 1950s. The only reason I did get one was because Harlem Station was an Erie terminal, otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered with it.

Originally, I planned to set the layout in 1957, but there was an Erie Magazine article from 1952 giving operation details and a customer lists. Over the time, while searching for suitable cars, it became apparent a lot of older cars of various road and vintage survived up until the early 1950s. Since most railroads got rid of their older rolling stock after WWII and the scrapping process took a few years to complete, it was a fitting choice. Thus, for the sake of variety, the early 1950s was a sweet spot.

Now back completing my 16 reefers... Madness, madness!

Matt

[doctorwayne]

.....Do you know how much SU-class boxcars were in service by 1952?....

Ted's book shows photos of two ex-Southern SU-type boxcars, one (among several) sold to the Atlantic & Danville, and another, one of ten, sold to the Lancaster & Chester. Both photos are dated 1952. The latter car is equipped with AB brakes.

Apparently, there were many variations within the SU class. There were several different ends used, including two somewhat similar Hutchins ends (like the ones I made for my car), and another type known only as the T-Brace end. The last 1500 cars built got two=piece Murphy ends, with 7 over 7 corrugations. With the exception of 250 cars, all got Hutchins Dry Lading roofs...in six different variations. The 250 car exceptions got radial roofs, but Southern's records also show that another 250 cars got something called a Chicago-Cleveland "Therite" arched roof. Also, a note on the Southern drawings shows that 200 cars got Chicago-Cleveland Company's "Viking" roof, possibly the first use of that design...it's similar to the roofs that I used on the Athearn boxcars in the same thread which I referenced earlier. In addition, 2,320 cars, in three groups, received fascia on the car sides at the eaves. The article also notes that the cars were little-change throughout their service lives.

Wayne

[e-paw]

Sorry sir but I don't know off hand that much about these Reading freight cars other than the 36 footers were rebuilt with steel sides and ends and were on the system for a while.

[sailormatlac]

Sorry sir but I don't know off hand that much about these Reading freight cars other than the 36 footers were rebuilt with steel sides and ends and were on the system for a while.

No problem, your hint was more than enough to be productive! After a quick search on Reading Modeler's website, I found out useful information.

In particular, XMp class (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://readingmodeler.com/images/rollingstock/boxcar/XMp.pdf">http://readingmodeler.com/images/rollin ... ar/XMp.pdf</a><!-- m -->) which survived quite a long time and was upgraded with Ajax brakewheel, steel roof and doors. They had fishbelly underframes...

This a a very neat prototype to replicate: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://readingmodeler.com/images/rollingstock/boxcar/photo/rdgxmp12573.jpg">http://readingmodeler.com/images/rollin ... p12573.jpg</a><!-- m -->

XMr survived until the very late 1940s, but by the early 1950s, they were virtually extinct, except for a handful of oddballs.

Once again, thanks for the lead.

It seems the only credible 36ft boxcars that would have been in sufficient number to be rare but still in interchange are the SU class, XMp class and various ventilated cars from the South Eastern states (ACL, Seaboard, etc.). Not as much as I thought, but all of them are extremely interesting prototypes in their own right.

Best regards,

Matt

[sailormatlac]

@Wayne: I'm late but I just discovered Accurail announced they will be doing the 36ft Fowler car in styrene. Quite an interesting development, including older Canadian roadnames such as Grand Trunk and Quebec Central. Seems your patience was rewarded. Would be neat to suggest to Dennis to add a few roads. Intercolonial was one the original buyer back the the 1910s.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.accurail.com/accurail/1100.htm">http://www.accurail.com/accurail/1100.htm</a><!-- m -->

Matt

[Russ Bellinis]

36 foot cars lasted beyond the 1950's, but steel frames were required after the 1920's for interchange service in the U.S. so the queen post cars wold have been retired.

[doctorwayne]

While the Southern's Su-class boxcars did have truss rods, they also had steel underframes.

Steel underframes were required on all cars built after Jan. 1, 1927, or re-built after July 1, 1928. All-wood underframes, including steel-girthed centre sills, were prohibited in interchange after Jan. 1, 1940, but truss rods on composite underfames weren't banned from interchange until Jan. 1, 1952.

Wayne