Mix ratio for Tru-colors paint?
#1
I've been working on some F&C kits lately. Got to the point for painting and figured I'd give Tru-colors paint try again(They had the prototypical color for this particular boxcar). Tried paint directly out of bottle in my air brush as stated it can be used. Paint came out dry and caused a rough surface( I should have experimented on a scrap piece of styrene or something. Lesson learned). So, boxcar has been stripped and I am preparing to paint it again. 

Anyone use Tru-colors a on a regular basis and have a ratio for paint and thinner that seems to work well? I did pick up a bottle of Tru-colors thinner, so I have that on hand.

Thx,
Mark
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#2
I went to Tru-Color's site, and while the FAQ area does note that the paint can be thinned, they don't give any particular proportions.

This paint is based on the former Accupaint, one of my favourites.  The original formula wasn't, in my experience, all that good for use with a brush, but it was excellent when thinned with ordinary lacquer thinner and applied with an airbrush.  I still have several bottles of Accupaint, and for airbrushing, generally found that 2/3 paint with 1/3 thinner seemed to work well.  However, the paint's formula has supposedly been altered somewhat.  I'm not a fan of pre-thinned paint (you're paying paint-prices for what amounts to thinner), but I'd suggest you do a test with 3/4 paint and 1/4 thinner.

Apply it on some material similar to that of the kits (the inside of the car, perhaps), and then adjust the original 3/1 ratio up or down as you deem necessary.  Most solvent based paints seem pretty forgiving when it comes to thinning, so add paint or thinner to suit, and keep track of the ratios.  Once you find a suitable ratio, it should work for pretty-well all of the colours available.

Wayne
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#3
(07-22-2018, 07:34 AM)twilight Wrote: I've been working on some F&C kits lately. Got to the point for painting and figured I'd give Tru-colors paint try again(They had the prototypical color for this particular boxcar). Tried paint directly out of bottle in my air brush as stated it can be used. Paint came out dry and caused a rough surface( I should have experimented on a scrap piece of styrene or something. Lesson learned). So, boxcar has been stripped and I am preparing to paint it again. 

Anyone use Tru-colors a on a regular basis and have a ratio for paint and thinner that seems to work well? I did pick up a bottle of Tru-colors thinner, so I have that on hand.

Thx,
Mark

Mark,

I specifically bought a set of Micropipettes (precision liquid handling equipment) specifically to find out just how much Tru-color needs to be thinned.  I bought a P1000 (100-1000 microliter) and P5000 (1-5 milliliter) pippette, which should be able to handle most jobs.  the disposable tips are ridiculously cheap when bought in bulk and unsterilized,  so I'll probably never run out. 

I have had the same problem using Tru-color out of the jar,  sometimes it settles,  sometimes it looks awful.   I think I had success with 1 part thinner to 3 parts paint,  but  I don't remember.   

In any case, as soon as I get some tips for my 1000 ul pippette, we're going to know within a ridiculous degree just what volumes are necessary to make paint go through well.  

Chris
Modeling New Jersey Under the Wire 1978-1979.  
[Image: logosmall.png]
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#4
What are you thinning it with? It was my understanding that Tru-Color thinned with acetone, which didn't really encourage my use of it.
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#5
(08-03-2018, 07:25 AM)dave1905 Wrote: What are you thinning it with?  It was my understanding that Tru-Color thinned with acetone, which didn't really encourage my use of it.

They do sell a proprietary thinner that as far as I can tell, is not entirely acetone.    That said,  it will eliminate pad printing on walthers products immediately (ask me how I know), and it will eventually eat through stock paint,  so its not the best for use on an already painted model.  

I don't think it is pure acetone though,  and I've never had any issues with models warping or otherwise having problems.   The worst experience I had with Tru-color was on a resin model that I hadn't primed first,  and even then, the paint just flaked off harmlessly (if not tediously).  

The Acetone part might just be the "cheap" method for people who don't like to buy the brand thinners. 

I've been using Tru-color almost exclusively since  Polly Scale/Floquil went away.   Apart from the issues  Mark is talking about, it has worked out well for me.   The B1 switcher is entirely tru-color,  and I painted the brass directly, no prep.  A few of my other engines are mostly tru-color.   You can see in the light on the edges of the carbody the "roughness" Mark talks about.    That said, on this particular model, most of the initial roughness "flattened out" as the paint dried, and in person just standing on the rails in front of you, it looks fine.  

[Image: PA110066_1.jpg]


The roughness is more apparent on Conrail 7499.   I took a photos to show the "faded" 305,  but you can easily see the paint did not go on as smooth as the old polly scale would have.   On the other hand, this is a much closer LV red!

[Image: PA110062.jpg]

You can see the same issue with the body.   Its bad enough that the rivets on the Plano intake grills seem obscured (this is a trick of the light, in person you can see them raised).  The patch is Polly Scale cornel red.   

[Image: PA110061.jpg]

Obviously though, this paint roughness is not ideal.   The reason tru-color is glossy is to make putting decals easier.   Being rough negates that, and so the finish is all wrong out of the bottle.
Modeling New Jersey Under the Wire 1978-1979.  
[Image: logosmall.png]
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#6
Chris, does your B1 have gloss coat on it?

And are you using primer? I have been using Tamiya Fine Scale primer and have been wondering if the Tru-colors paint has been having a reaction with the primer. I have an old bottle of Tru-colors primer that has separated and evaporated, mostly(there's still some left in the bottle). I also had a bottle of black in the same condition and I added some Tru-colors thinner to it to see if I could bring it back to life. I put it in my air brush and gave it a try on some scrap styrene and seemed to have worked. I'm going to give the primer the same experiment today.

On another forum, I read that humidity may have a significant effect on this paint because of the acetone that is in the paint. Thread said, acetone may absorb the moisture in the air when humid as it's being air-brushed. I'm not sure of this specifically, but it was extremely humid the day I air-brushed the boxcar and I got the blushed results. When I have experimented with the same color, I thinned it more and increased the psi to around 35, but the humidity had pulled out also.

I'll post my results

Thx,
Mark
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#7
Here's some shots of my airbrushing experiments with Tru-colors paint. After a fail from shooting directly from the bottle(I did practice on scrap styrene first and thought I was getting correct results. Tried on boxcar I wanted to paint and it looked like yuck), I did some experimenting. First picture, is with a little Tru-colors thinner added(humidity was also high when I shot this)Flat and dull and flaking off:
[Image: 20180805_104857_zps9pr3z0nk.jpg]

Next shot is with more thinner added, PSI up to 35(humidity pulled out). More of what I think should be expected. This was 2 coats. More glossy as it is stated it should be.
[Image: 20180805_104907_zpsinpyd88e.jpg]

This is a shot of the black I saved(bumps are from this sheet of styrene living in my paint booth of over a year):

[Image: 20180805_104923_zpswj362eu9.jpg]

Last is a shot of the primer that I seemed to have also saved:

[Image: 20180805_113651_zpsqohh5ajv.jpg]

Hope to maybe prime the boxcar later today.

Mark
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#8
(08-04-2018, 05:31 AM)twilight Wrote: Chris, does your B1 have gloss coat on it?

And are you using primer? I have been using Tamiya Fine Scale primer and have been wondering if the Tru-colors paint has been having a reaction with the primer. I have an old bottle of Tru-colors primer that has separated and evaporated, mostly(there's still some left in the bottle).  I also had a bottle of black in the same condition and I added some Tru-colors thinner to it to see if I could bring it back to life. I put it in my air brush and gave it a try on some scrap styrene and seemed to have worked. I'm going to give the primer the same experiment today.

On another forum, I read that humidity may have a significant effect on this paint because of the acetone that is in the paint. Thread said, acetone may absorb the moisture in the air when humid as it's being air-brushed. I'm not sure of this specifically, but it was extremely humid the day I air-brushed the boxcar and I got the blushed results. When I have experimented with the same color, I thinned it more and increased the psi to around 35, but the humidity had pulled out also.

I'll post my results

Thx,
Mark

Mark,

The B1 is just Tru-color, without primer or clear coats.  My understanding is that "standard" Tru-color is supposed to be somewhat glossy so that decals can be made to adhere better.   This saves a step, since one doesn't need to add a separate gloss coat only to have to dull coat it later once the decals are applied.   The "brushable" tru-color paints are supposed to be dull, though I have not tried any.  Resin is a different story, it definitely needs to be primed with tru-color and I'm curious if the 3D print material might also need to be primed.  

That said,  I've had a moisture trap on my airbrush,  so  unless we're talking  about the moisture between the model and the brush, I don't know if I would be experiencing the same problems.  I can see that being an issue though.    

What was the ratio of paint to thinner you used?  I got my 1000 ul tips, I want to see if I can repeat it.
Modeling New Jersey Under the Wire 1978-1979.  
[Image: logosmall.png]
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#9
Ok, I seemed to have done a better job this time around with the primer at least. Looks more like I would expect paint to look like. Boxcar needs some touching up before I try the NH boxcar red color I picked up:

[Image: 20180806_163141_zpshcfqpfc0.jpg]

[Image: 20180806_163124_zpsurtwrf81.jpg]

[Image: 20180806_163054_zpsrm3wf8ma.jpg]

Chris, mix ratio at my 2nd go around with boxcar red was 4 parts paint to 2 parts Tru-color thinner. That is what gave me the flat color in this example:
[Image: 20180805_104857_zps9pr3z0nk.jpg]

It wasn't until I upped the thinner and PSI and had a less humid evening that I got the glossier result.

From reading some input on other forums, I understand evaporation is a problem with this paint. The acetone portion of this paint has a tendency to evaporate in shipping or while on the shelves in the store. Even when I picked it up from the LHS, they told me it was an issue. They even topped my brand new, just ordered bottle off with thinner, because of evaporation. I was also told that a lot of vendors who sell Tru-colors paint, have been trying to convince the makers of Tru-colors to go to a glass bottle to help avoid evaporation.

I am not sure what shape the first bottle of NH boxcar red was in when I got it. I may have already been in a deficit when I began using it right out of the bottle. To much paint, not enough thinner. When I was using Pollyscale paint, I found a mix ratio of 6 parts paint to 2 parts distilled water a fairly good ratio. I am not as precise as you are achieving to be, I was only using the 3.5" pipettes and still am. For now, with the Tru-colors paint I'm running with, if it looks like the consistency of 2% milk it's good until I can come up with a more exact ratio. Or you post your results.

On last thing on pipettes, how come I can only find 3.5" pipettes to 10 or 12 packs for like 6 bucks, and on Ebay I can buy a bulk quantity of 100, 4.5" or 6" pipettes for around the same price. Even cheaper if I get them from China. But I can't find a bulk quantity of the 3.5" ones anywhere?

Question is rhetorical, no need for an answer.

Oh, and yes as far as the issue with humidity, I was referring to from the point of the air-brush to the area being painted. At least that is what I understood the article to mean.


Thx,
mark
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