Before i get ahead of myself and start building another electric locomotive, I should probably have the infrastructure. This means Catenary. I will try to build the standard PRR catenary i know and love.

Some of you may say "wait one moment GEC, didn't you already have catenary?" that was just an experiment, and it was the only one fully built. I've never seen anyone model a wire cross span, and there was question of its ability to hold up. I personally believe that a wire cross span can be as sturdy but also more flexible, and they are quite common in the areas i model, it is not always 100% K-braced. As we can see in the picture, a wire cross span works.

However, this was just a mock up. Notice how it doesn't have any of the insulators or other important details, and the solder joints are pretty ugly. I plan to use thinner wire and more concealed solder joints, but i think i can make something that looks good. I think Tichy Trains makes PRR Style Catenary insulators that would be perfect for this.



For reference, a K-brace PRR catenary bridge looks like this.



So, here i have my wires, my jigs, and my tools. I have plenty of old rail that looks fine as a catenary bridge. These won't be super detailed amazing catenary structures (to do so would probably cost me as much as the Model Memories kits, not to mention the pieces are harder to find), but they will be sturdy and look good enough.

Cool Chris, i cant wait to see some of them built and stringed together on the layout

Scratchbuilt cantanary.
Cool.
A New Haven EP-5 would look good gliding underneath.

I am IMPRESSED! Fine painstaking work like that always has my greatest respect!

Oh, and Ed has a point but I'm pretty happy with the PC unit you pictured!

Ralph

I think this is going to take a back seat, but if i have my game planned right, I'll start putting together some sections by mid July. the chief thing holding me up is i need to purchase one more piece of equipment, a Dremel tool drill press, and some PRR catenary insulators from Tichy Train Group. I would buy these things now, but because of the other challenge I'm doing, I want to hold off. There is also a Ford Auto Assembly plant up for grabs that I'm going to try and snatch up, since i understand these are hard to find (but they would go nicely with my E44s going to the old Ford and GMC plants in north Jersey). Anyways, One at a time, my friends, I'm on a budget! but i have the whole summer, so something will get done.

eightyeightfan1 Wrote:Scratchbuilt cantanary.
Cool.
A New Haven EP-5 would look good gliding underneath.

Ralph Wrote:I am IMPRESSED! Fine painstaking work like that always has my greatest respect!

Oh, and Ed has a point but I'm pretty happy with the PC unit you pictured!

Ralph

As far as EP-5's go, you might get your middle ground. I really planned to make a Penn Central- Conrail model of the EP5 (E40 now). New Haven's EP5s made their last stands deep in central New Jersey, and I've seen pictures of them outside the Helmetta Tobacco factory with a train in the first months of conrail, letting it just slide into the region i like to model. in fact, additional freight motors would be nice to have, since my E33 is the only good one i have (the E44 is problematic, and my GG1s are a bit large). There is one problem though...


the company IHP has an EP5 model available, but i recently got an update from them saying they will discontinue the frames and powering because of the economy. I'm sure he still has some on hand, but there is no guarantee, and I'm not sure what mechanism i'd need to power one. However, other than that, it looks like an easy project (compared to my Arrow III kits.... *shudder*). If i get a good $150, i think i can afford to order one. hopefully, its not to late to snag a working one.


Here is a picture of Conrail/ PC 4973 working in Helmetta and Spotswood, these towns are roughly around Exit 8A on the NJ turnpike (you can still see the catenary supports there).

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1328686">http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1328686</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1328689">http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1328689</a><!-- m -->

I will be watching this thread, as my layout as being planned will have about 100 feet of 3-4 track PRR catenary... I will need all the tips I can get from this thread!!

Puddlejumper Wrote:I will be watching this thread, as my layout as being planned will have about 100 feet of 3-4 track PRR catenary... I will need all the tips I can get from this thread!!

Ahh, I'm jealous! i wish i had the space for that!

I wouldn't copy me though. I have the basic idea going here, and I'm just going for the generic form of the catenary, that is economical for my 4x8, and something that will hold up to being hit. A good thing you can steal from me is that jig built on that 1x4. this if for making the trolley wire, and you're going to want to make it with the auxiliary like the prototype, its much more sturdy. I just set up a bunch of pins around some super thing .020 steel wire spacing them 1/32nd of an inch apart. it looks good enough, you can see the wire hanging in the photo with the E44.

However If you're going to be making a layout based around the Northeast Corridor or any other Pennsy Line, I would invest in some real catenary. there are the kits from Model Memories, or if you want to scratch build, I've found a bunch of good stuff on the catenary, and if you PM me your Email, i can dig out for you a fantastic article on scratch building PRR catenary, and it gets right down to the ladder, intricate braces and supports, and how to make particular jigs and things.

Its by Andy Rubbo, and you'll find that his PRR catenary is the best anywhere.

What I plan on doing is having a 4 track loop on my layout representing the PRR NY-DC mainline. This of course will require catenary but will most likely not be functional. I will PM you my email, I appreciate the tips. I still will be following your thread, I haven't even tried one section of catenary yet so to me you are an expert!

Dave

Well, i bought some more tools, and the PRR Catenary Insulator details will be around by next week. I'm still debating whether or not rail is the best thing to use

even though its more expensive and harder to obtain, i might go for the brass H-columns. I know they'll hold. I think i'll build a couple reading company catenary bridges if i have spare supplies. they actually seem simpler except for the diamond steady rods. its basically an H-column with the flat side perpendicular to the rails. An I-beam fits between the flanges of the H-column and crosses to the other side, with small "T" shapes struts reinforcing the cross span and poles. if it is a tall catenary pole, there is usually an extra strut above, like a mirror, over the cross span.

the diamond steady rods don't look to hard, its just an extra step. to bad i'm not modeling the Philly/ Reading company area. i could probably get away with that instead of the PRR bridges.

All I can say is more powerto ya. After they are built then the wire has to be strung up, straght is one thing but a curve. I just don't have what it takes.

lol, lots of snags! the raw materials are becoming hard to come by. I originally planned to use HO scale code 100 rail for the catenary poles and cross beams, but i have determined that there isn't adequate area to really make solid connections between the wires and poles without having to put wires across the face of one side of the rail, and leave ugly hooks on the other. WHile that is probably ridiculously stable and strong, i think I'm going to go for a more realistic approach with H-columns, Tees, angles, and such. the H-Columns especially, since i can hide the "hooks" for the wire in the webbing of the catenary poles for the wires, and if i off set them to the side facing the direction of the trains, the grab irons would be installed over them.

Lester Perry Wrote:All I can say is more powerto ya. After they are built then the wire has to be strung up, straight is one thing but a curve. I just don't have what it takes.

lol, more power indeed!

I think as far as curves go, you just need to have everything somewhat precisely cut. Tight curves aren't to difficult, you just need to slant the hanger wire at what looks like an appropriate tilt, and then add the additional wires to it to complete the look. If you use a strong wire, like the steel music wire, it will hold it's shape. I think the worst thing about the steel wire though, is that it is very difficult to bend, and you really only get one shot at bending it right. while bending it to have the proper tilt doesn't seem to hard, i plan to hook the wired into both the catenary bridge, and a small hook to hang the wires from (since i don't completely trust a straight-solder connection).

As long as everything is securely anchored, its fine. I think i might build some gauges on some old model power cars or something to keep the wire centered over a curve in between catenary supports. once the wire is soldered in, it should retain it's shape.

I don't think I'm going to get super complicated with the contact wire and the auxiliary wire. I know that on the prototype they stretched out a bit farther, but my goal is to make a model that is more intermediate, that looks good, and has room to be super detailed later, but is also sturdy. the wire i have now is fine for straight tracks, and if i wanted to use different wire, i don't see why i couldn't disconnect the wire at a future date. If you look at the first photo i printed with the experimental catenary poles, you'll see that the hangers (the triangular area of wires holding the catenary wires) are only soldered on one end. the steel wire is strong enough to hold it up just by one connection, so i think that i might not even have to solder the wire in. I could just super glue it, and then bust the glue off if i need to remove the wire (rather than having to break out the soldering iron). that's just my theory though, we'll see how it works in practice.

I will keep peeking in on you to see the progress

if you need any pictures of the "real Cantenary" - i have a few

ngauger Wrote:if you need any pictures of the "real Cantenary" - i have a few

Actually, that would be great! any detailed shots of the poles, and any good shots of what the wires look like over turnouts would be great.

there does not seem to be much out there on the proper configuration of the catenary wires where tracks cross and diverge.

ngauger Wrote:if you need any pictures of the "real Cantenary" - i have a few

First of all, thank you for the pictures, they were helpful.


even though i do not have the H columns, insulators, and things i need to make truly PRR style catenary, i did have loads of code 100 rail and some wire to thick for the catenary to look accurate. With this, i made some mock ups in different configurations.

I first tried to make a K-brace catenary bridge with the hangers configured for tight curves, but this did not work out to well. The "V" part of the K brace would not solder at all (so much for scrap brazing rod), and I need to rework the hangers to be more steady (though it probably just needed some extra bracing, which can be done to match prototype practices). i think i have it covered, but i'll come back with pictures of it when i get it working.

I also built a double track single poled catenary tower to hold the wires across from American Hardware supply. Its nto totally perfect, since while i thought i saw a pole configured like this, most of the pictures in my books have just longer "v" shaped hanger rods instead of a cross wire, though the "L" shape to the cross beam appears to be accurate. One major issue though, is that in order to tension the wire properly, the single pole catenary installation need to be anchored even MORE into the ground, since it tends to pivot when the wire is pulling on it, and sagging wires are BAD!

because of the track arrangement there, there would not be any realistic way to install a double pole catenary tower or a K brace bridge, unless i planned to span across the whole industrial area (my main is two tracks, but there is an industrial siding in the way of the pole's placement). While i'm thinking of doing using the single pole, I haven't yet decided. Also, because of the impending changes to my layout (american hardware will fall to Magic Pan), i'm not even sure i need the track that is currently in the way of me installing a more conventional kind of catenary structures.

With the construction of both sturctures, i used some new techniques i've read, as well as some new tools, to make things go a LOT faster, and cleaner. I've learned to let the solder flow and clean the joints better. This way i don't end up with excessive blobs like i did with the first structure i made last year. building both was pretty easy. I installed some brads on a scrap piece of wood so that it would hold my rails at 90 degree angles, and then fluxed and soldered. I used both a solder gun and an soldering iron. the gun is good for fast stuff, but most of the time i found an 40 watt iron would do the job. any wires that would be supporting anything were anchored in by drilling holes in the rails with a dremel drill press, then creating small hooks in the wire, and finally soldering it. where wire to wire connections were made, i used a solder gun and cleaned the wires as best i could, since i think if the connection is good, it won't need me to make hooks to hold them together. so far its working. the rails themselves and wires not holding anything were just soldered in and i'm banking that these connections are good as well.

Here are some pictures.

TO bad this picture has my basement for a background, i bet this photo could have one a picture contest!



Decided to take some of my lesser seen electrics out.



In this somewhat ugly photo, you can see the connections and things that went into the single pole. to bad the picutre was so fuzzy. don't ask what that white blobby thing is, because I don't know what it is, lol it wasn't there when i re took the picture, but this one better shows the pole.



Here is my old Crosswire pan. you can see how far i've come!



thats it for now. I should be getting the PRR insulators details in by tonight, unless fedex gives me another delivery exception (they need to get their act together, lol).