I would vote for any new model of a wooden underframe car from the 1880-1910 era. The last new ones where produced over 30 years ago. There are some available as craftsman wood or resin kits, but nothing new in over 3 decades.

Dave H.

Maybe its just me, but I could never see why anyone would model something you're not going to see on the layout. Air tanks, triple valves and cylinders with brake rods going to the trucks is fine. Maybe some air line that connect to visible brake gear, but unless I was modeling a car, in the ditch on its side, applying trainlines, air lines, and other underbody detail is a waste. Kinda like Athearn having thier roller bearing caps rotate, unless I have my head laid right up on the layout and the train was rolling slowly by..OK. A lot of the newer Athearn's have this detail, and I tell you, with one of my trains rolling at track speed...I don't see it.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with detailing underbodies. In fact, some of it looks real excellent, such as on the good Dr's, but to me, its a waste of time that could be spent on some other aspect of my rolling stock.The time I spend super detailing the underbody of rolling stock, that no one is going to see anyway,could be spent, super detailing a loco.
I guess I'm just a KISS(Keep It Simple Stupid) kinda guy.

dave1905 Wrote:I would vote for any new model of a wooden underframe car from the 1880-1910 era. The last new ones where produced over 30 years ago. There are some available as craftsman wood or resin kits, but nothing new in over 3 decades.

Dave H.

Welcome! I'd love to see some accurate 1880ish freight cars...and for far lower prices than the BTS cars.

I think the one missing product is all those commuter versions of the GP40-2. There has to be at least 5 or 6 commuter railroads that run with modified GP40s where the only Major differences they have with each other is their cab type and maybe their fuel tank arrangement. The bodies are nearly identical in all cases. There is one guy who plans to model just the body and sell it (you provide your own cabs).

if you look, the only major difference is the cabs. the vents, fans and louvers are nearly identical between the 5 commuter roads. Commuter cars for just about all of these railroads are readily available either RTR or as kits, or just need some paint/decal work.

New Jersey Transit



Connecticut Department of transportation



Virginia Railway Express



These last two are pretty much Wide cab versions of the others

Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority



Maryland Area Rail Commuter



I don't think you could go wrong making a locomotive that closely matched this body shell. I'm sure more railroads run similare commuter engines.

Those look like they could be kitbashed from an Athearn Gp40x. Is the length different than a standard Gp40-2? It looks like they have an extra 4 feet at the back of the long hood, I presume for a hep unit, but it definitely looks doable.

I saw that pic of the CDOT loco and was thinking"Wait.....Thats a BL20GH!" Piece of crap. Always breaking down. They were suppose to replace the FL9's, but with all the problems CDOT and Metro North is having with them, the FL9 is still going strong.
But yeah..The cores were old GP40's. CDOT had a few, and traded them in to become BL20GH's. Bad move.

If you subscribe to Walthers email update(s), you should have recently received an invitation to fill out a survey about which new products you'd like to see.

Andrew

With me the missing #1 product is the matching rolling stock and pass.cars coming out
the same time as the engines of that same period and in the correct consist.
and when they do come out they cost so much and they come out at one time so you have to spend
a lot and if you miss getting them in that short span you'll have to wait almost a year if not discontinued

eightyeightfan1 Wrote:Maybe its just me, but I could never see why anyone would model something you're not going to see on the layout. Air tanks, triple valves and cylinders with brake rods going to the trucks is fine. Maybe some air line that connect to visible brake gear, but unless I was modeling a car, in the ditch on its side, applying trainlines, air lines, and other underbody detail is a waste. Kinda like Athearn having thier roller bearing caps rotate, unless I have my head laid right up on the layout and the train was rolling slowly by..OK. A lot of the newer Athearn's have this detail, and I tell you, with one of my trains rolling at track speed...I don't see it.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with detailing underbodies. In fact, some of it looks real excellent, such as on the good Dr's, but to me, its a waste of time that could be spent on some other aspect of my rolling stock.The time I spend super detailing the underbody of rolling stock, that no one is going to see anyway,could be spent, super detailing a loco.
I guess I'm just a KISS(Keep It Simple Stupid) kinda guy.

Is someone insulting my internal boxcar framing???

I can't see the whistle blow...yet so many modelers insist on spending $100+ to have such a feature! And then there are those cigar-smoke-from-the-stack guys...mostly O-gaugers apostates, I think. (the sound bug has partially bitten me...and I can see why some must have smoke in sync with the exhaust).

I usually draw the line at body-hung brake beams as they don't like my tight curves...but I love adding some of brake details.

I'm surprised that there is a diesel type out there, which has more than one owner...and yet there isn't a plastic model of it.

Someone needs to come out with examples of every NKP locomotive and car...in plastic...and very cheap.

I've found that due to the price, and also somewhat due to the fun of building, I really don't care what is commercially offered for the South Park in On3 or for HO NKP passenger cars. I'd rather build them...so I'm inclined to see something such as a particular complex detail part, mechanism, or other hard-to-build item as what I'd like to see. But I think that the #1 missing item in the hobby needs to have a wide appeal...far beyond any particular railroad...kind of like a good plastic 2-8-0 was over 10 years ago. Now, it seems that most manufacturers are focused on such and such train or major cosmetic variations on a particular prototype.

Russ Bellinis Wrote:Those look like they could be kitbashed from an Athearn Gp40x. Is the length different than a standard Gp40-2? It looks like they have an extra 4 feet at the back of the long hood, I presume for a hep unit, but it definitely looks doable.

Not accurately. A Gp40X is actually MUCH shorter than these commuter locomotives, and the flared radiators are completely wrong (the radiators are too short and flare differently). An SD45 is almost a better starting point, but either way, its all madness. I haven't yet found anyone who has completed such a kit bash (though many get about halfway in and just don't seem to know what to do next). I suppose i could try it when i finish all the other projects i have, but I'm not confident in it. I mean, how would one even add those vents to those engine doors below the radiators?

besides, a good SD45 Starting point is not cheap. I'd love pointers on how to do this sort of thing, but its just above my current skill level.

eightyeightfan1 Wrote:I saw that pic of the CDOT loco and was thinking"Wait.....Thats a BL20GH!" Piece of crap. Always breaking down. They were suppose to replace the FL9's, but with all the problems CDOT and Metro North is having with them, the FL9 is still going strong.
But yeah..The cores were old GP40's. CDOT had a few, and traded them in to become BL20GH's. Bad move.

Thats not a BL20GH. Notice that this CDOT engine is actually attractive. a major spotting feature of the BL20GH is EXTREME UGLINESS . The unit pictured is indeed a "GP40-2H" or something along those lines. Its essentially a GP40PH-2 with just different ditch lights and fuel tanks.

eightyeightfan1 Wrote:Maybe its just me, but I could never see why anyone would model something you're not going to see on the layout... .... A lot of the newer Athearn's have this detail, and I tell you, with one of my trains rolling at track speed...I don't see it.

Its all in the photography, especially on the modern stuff. For example, just yesterday i saw a freight train go by, and it had all that break rigging clearly visible. Now, maybe if a train is running, you won't see all that, but if you take a track side photo of the model (much like many of mine), you can't get away without some of these details and claim to have something realistic. In my case, i just focus the work on my favorite models, I'm not to crazy about detailing everything. In the end, i think it depends. I have an Amtrak P42DC that when i first got it, it seemed fine, until i bought an Amtrak book, with good pictures of the P42DC, and i could see all the little air dryers, filters, and piping and such. enough of it is visible from the sides when you get down to it that it really makes a difference to have it.

I remember back in the late 1980s - the HO people wanted 1) good looking and running plastic steam. Then the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 came out. They also wanted enclosed auto racks, and eventually those came out. Also missing was a decent F40-PH. The latter two were almost a necessity for those wanting to model a contemporary (at the time) class 1 railroad. I think to be a #1 missing product, it needs to be something that is crucial for modeling a particular era, something that isn't easily kitbashed or a reasonable stand-in isn't available, and the era it is needed for needs to have reasonable interest. Sure, there is a lot that is needed for modeling 1860, but frankly there aren't many people interested in that era. However, I think many people would be interested in 1890-1910 if more was available. I can't think of anything that is missing from the transition era that makes modeling that era difficult.

nkp_174 Wrote:I'm surprised that there is a diesel type out there, which has more than one owner...and yet there isn't a plastic model of it.

I think in the case of the commuter stuff, its easy to see why they hesitate. It doesn't have a single huge fan base (the major exception being NJ transit. only the old bachmann F40PH-2s and IHC coaches are ever left behind at a train show or hobby shop. Atlas NJ transit offerings are nearly impossible to find these days).

Consider two similar locomotives.

1) The somewhat obscure E33 electric locomotive sold by bachmann is a good model, and it to has had at least 5 owners (VGN, N&W, NH, PC, CR), all with different, colorful paint schemes, and they all ran on the same systems you can now find the GP40 commuter models. However, it clearly seems to have backfired, since some websites have them marked WAY down to $40 a piece. I'm not complaining, i love electrics, but no one wants to sell models at a loss like this.

2) the Atlas AEM7/ALP44 was a partial failure as well, due to the lack of commuter coaches available. These also came in 6 different paint schemes. True to my earlier claim, NJ transit ALP44s sold out almost immediately, and at the time it was easy to get NJ transit coaches. These days, its nearly impossible to find an NJ transit ALP44 (seriously, if you find me a deal on one of these, PM me.). Similarly, the model of the current Amtrak scheme is also totally wiped out and other Amtrak schemes sold reasonably. However, Atlas also sold commuter variants of the AEM7, two road numbers each for SEPTA and MARC. No one bought these (they started selling for $40 as well), but I'm willing to bet it wasn't because there wasn't a demand for the models. In reality, while SEPTA coaches were initially available from Walthers, they did so without Licensing and SEPTA stopped them, making the SEPTA cars scarce. Until last year, there were NO MARC coaches, period (though decals were produced).

While i have seen both MARC and SEPTA AEM7s on NJ transit with NJT coaches (infact, both numbers offered by Atlas served on the NEC and North Jersey coast lines of NJ transit), that probably isn't enough to warrant an NJ transit modeler buying them for obscure test trains.

The end results is that the commuter stuff sold poorly.

nachoman Wrote:I remember back in the late 1980s - the HO people wanted 1) good looking and running plastic steam. Then the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 came out. They also wanted enclosed auto racks, and eventually those came out. Also missing was a decent F40-PH. The latter two were almost a necessity for those wanting to model a contemporary (at the time) class 1 railroad. I think to be a #1 missing product, it needs to be something that is crucial for modeling a particular era, something that isn't easily kitbashed or a reasonable stand-in isn't available, and the era it is needed for needs to have reasonable interest. Sure, there is a lot that is needed for modeling 1860, but frankly there aren't many people interested in that era. However, I think many people would be interested in 1890-1910 if more was available. I can't think of anything that is missing from the transition era that makes modeling that era difficult.

I agree, which is why i really think there should be more commuter modeling stuff out there. You could model the modern day without commuter trains, but in places like here in the Northeast, from Virginia to Massachusetts and all states between except delaware, they all have their own commuter agencies, many of which run on the same tracks owned by conrail, and later NS or CSX. You are really missing a major part of the railroading "scene", when you lack models like this. I'm remain reasonably convinced that it would sell if it were made in plastic. I know there is a lot of demand for those commuter models on many forums. Even if a company just came out with those GP40 models, they would sell, since people can get the commuter cars or the decals to make them easily, without trouble.

there is alot of interest in Modern modeling, but commuter train are often left out.

A few years ago, Walthers did offer the Horizon commuter coach. But at first, they only had them in limited commuter lines. I bought two, coach and cab, when they first came out, but they didn't offer them in CDOT scheme(though they did in Metro North). I had to paint them, and use Micro-Scale decals to get them into CDOT scheme.
Of course..Guess what happened. Three months later...Horizons in CDOT.
If only I waited........

eightyeightfan1 Wrote:A few years ago, Walthers did offer the Horizon commuter coach. But at first, they only had them in limited commuter lines. I bought two, coach and cab, when they first came out, but they didn't offer them in CDOT scheme(though they did in Metro North). I had to paint them, and use Micro-Scale decals to get them into CDOT scheme.
Of course..Guess what happened. Three months later...Horizons in CDOT.
If only I waited........

I know your pain. I wanted GP15-1s, so i hunted down smokey valley kits, since thats what was available. Then walther re-ran GP15-1s, and now Athearn Genesis is selling them. I even heard Atlas has an HO GP15-1 lined up, but i haven't found that picture since i saw it.

Hopefully my modified smokey valley kits can kick their butts.

Hobby Town drives.
jim