I built my previous layout with 2x4 frame, in little sections, and attached them together with carriage bolts. I found that that might be a little overkill, and want to use 1x4 this time, but still build in sections, and bolt together. just wondering if anybody else does this similarly or has any advice, I dont want to have my benchwork weigh as much as a sherman tank like it did last time. Thanks

Depends I guess. If you want your layout to be portable, then yes, I'd worry about the weight. My last two layouts have been just the opposite of yours. My last one was built out of 2x2's and 3/4 x 1-1/2's. For some reason this time, on my newest one, I went with 2x4's for the subframe and the same 3/4 x 1-1/2's to support the foam. Yes, it weighs a ton but... who cares?

I guess one of the reasons I went kinda beefy is because in the future, I hope to put an HOn3 layout above the N scale layout and I wanted the framing to be strong enough to handle it.

Kevin, part of the problem with using dimensional lumber like 2"x4"s is that it's not very stable - the average 2"x4" has more moisture in it than a cup of coffee, and, despite its dimensions, is liable to warp or twist as it dries. Common 1"x4"s are cut from the same material, and have the same drawbacks. A better choice is kiln-dried pine (or fir if you can find it) in either "Select" or #1 grade. This is dried far beyond that which a "kiln-dried" 2"x4" would be, and 1"x4"s would be more than adequate for most layouts. 1"x2" are knot free, and 1"x4"s have minimal knots that are tight and not too large. I used 1"x4" pine for my open grid benchwork, with the support system (legs, underlayout shelving, and bracing) of regular 2"x4"s only because I had lots left over from building my house. The 1"x4" grid sits atop it, fastened in place with a minimal amount of 1"x2" risers. For the second level of the layout, I'll be using 1"x2" pine, with a top surface of 3/8" sheathing plywood. I assemble the benchwork with drywall screws and/or regular wood screws, countersinking the heads.
In place of 1"x4"s, you could also use 3/4" plywood, ripped into 3 1/2" strips, although screwing it into the edges isn't quite as reliable as it is with boards.
Depending on your method of adding roadbed, I find it best to put crossmembers 16"o/c. This will provide more than adequate support for a 3/8" plywood table-top, 3/4" plywood cut-out roadbed (strips and pre-cut curves), spline roadbed, or extruded foam. Whichever you choose, be sure to secure it to the framework with screws and/or glue, and you should have benchwork that is strong and stable, without being overly heavy. Make the support system/legs as a separate assembly for easier moving.

Another weight-saving idea can be found on page 8 of Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse District 1957 thread. You should be able to cut the slots even more easily using a dado blade with a table saw, or by making a couple of passes with a regular blade in a SkilSaw.

Wayne

1x5 (actually 3/4 x 4 1/2) select pine, or 3/4" cabinet grade (i.e. lots of layers) plywood ripped to a minimum of 4" is what we recommend for module construction at <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hotrak.ca">www.hotrak.ca</a><!-- w -->. We also have provisions for joining modules with bolts and T-nuts, so I'd say you are definitely on the right track!

Andrew

If you want lightweight, moisture-free and strong, there are two choices:

1. Commercial-grade metal studs.
Advantages:
1. Easily cut, and easy to work with
2. Joined with screws.
3. Already slotted for wiring.
4. Light-weight.
5. Strong and sturdy.
6. No warping or twisting.
7. Totally moisture-proof.

2. PVC pipe:
Advantages:
1. Easily cut and worked.
2. Joined with adhesives.
3. Provides it's own wiring conduit.
4. Light-weight.
5. Strong and sturdy.
6. No warping or twisting.
7. Totally moisture-proof.

The primary disadvantages are that some folks seem hesitant to try different materials like these, especially commercial-grade metal studs, and in the case of PVC piping, complain that it can be "wobbly", although that is generally due to using too-small pipe rather than the structural element itself. I make large snake cages - 2x4x8' - for pythons and boa constrictors which grow up to 12 feet in length out of the stuff all the time, and they work beautifully. People also make sturdy and good looking lawn and garden furniture out of it., and since it is hollow, there is a great savings in weight. Assembly is extremely easy since all of the corners, joints and so forth are over-the-counter items. All you need is a hacksaw and some PVC cement. You can even add castors, and a router or a drill will give you easy wiring access anywhere you wish, depending on whether you want a simple hole or a slot. If you have a space problem, a PVC frame can be constructed that will extend outwards without the need for any rails or hardware, just one diameter nested inside another.

And in case of a short, the PVC is a much better bet that a wooden frame, too.

Just my thoughts.

MM...

Good suggestion - I have a friend who built a layout with the metal studs - very quick and easy to work with. Only disadvantage - lots of duct tape required to cover sharp edges...

With respect to the PVC pipe, is there a commercially available part that can make a corner? I.e. how do you handle the leg attachment at a corner? I know there are "Y" joints available, but Tees and 3-ways?

Andrew

MasonJar Wrote:MM...

Good suggestion - I have a friend who built a layout with the metal studs - very quick and easy to work with. Only disadvantage - lots of duct tape required to cover sharp edges...

With respect to the PVC pipe, is there a commercially available part that can make a corner? I.e. how do you handle the leg attachment at a corner? I know there are "Y" joints available, but Tees and 3-ways?

Andrew

Got me! I forgot that part, because the last time I worked with them, we covered them with drywall when we were done.

Yes, there are T's and 3-ways; in fact, they are often made specifically for those who are building lawn furniture. Home Depot carries a very nice line. I used them to make the snake cages.

I guess weight isnt my biggest issue, Im just looking for ideas to build it a little cleaner and better looking this time. Portability isnt an issue, just I cant build in two big of sections because I cant fit real large boards into my basement where we have a curve in the starwell to get through. Ive never really understood the l girder stuff too much, but never really looked into it cause I just like to use a flat piece of plywood for a surface and find some of the styles to be overkill for that.

Thanks for the good advice so far.

Curved stairwells are built by sadists.

Some good suggestions here. I will point out that PVC pipe is easiest to work with in terms of cutting and fastening together, followed by wood. Metal is also an excellent option, but if you are less familiar in working with it, you may want to go with wood. I have never seen a layout built using PVC pipe, but I have heard of a few that used metal studs.

I used wood for similar reasons to Wayne - I got a bunch of scraps free when my dad was framing his house, and from dismantling an old layout. I think I only had to buy about two 1x2s new from my entire layout. If I was to buy materials new, I would likely have gone the metal route. I used an "L girder" type construction because I have lots of vertical scenery. If you are planning on flat scenery, there is no reason to get much more complicated than a piece of foam or plywood over a simple framework.

Lostock Junction was rebuilt with metal studs. The story is here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.theplatelayers.org/coupling/lostock.htm">http://www.theplatelayers.org/coupling/lostock.htm</a><!-- m -->
Note that Mike also uses the studs for his fiddle yard -- a whole 8' train (well, 7'+) can be shfted off at one go.

On my layout and most of my previous ones, I use L-girder, even with flat-top designs. I haven't noticed warping.

I'm seriously considering using PVC on mine.

MountainMan Wrote:Curved stairwells are built by sadists.

Yesssss............especially in 1: 87.1 scale........your pain is my pleasure.

A 2" X 4" "I" beam......two 1" X 2"'s, and one 3" X 6' piece of 1/4" plywood, is not that hard to build, and considerably more stable that a 2X4.....and much lighter.
seen here with 2" X 2" leg assemblies:
[attachment=3154]

Looks good.

Kevin one trick you might use is to build your bench work as a "kit" where all of the pieces are designed and cut outside of the basement, then you just carry the pieces down and bolt them together in the basement. The problem with having a restriction in your stairwell that limits the size of a part of the bench work that can be carried downstairs while the actual bench work in the basement is not so restricted is that some complicated track that you might not want to straddle a joint may have to straddle the joint if you need to carry the completed bench down the stairs. If you want to use dimensional lumber, the modular club that I belong to has found that poplar is a relatively inexpensive and light weight hardwood that is more dimensionally stable than the typical pine, fir or what Home Depot calls "whitewood" whatever that is.