My sons & I went to a really good MRR flea market today (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://trainweb.org/lmra/">http://trainweb.org/lmra/</a><!-- m -->). We are not usually able to get to many flea markets, as I'm usually able to pick up the MRR items I need from my local hobby shops, eBay or stalls at model train shows.
I noticed very quickly how willing vendors were to negotiate or lower their prices. In many cases, as soon as I started looking, they said they could do better on the price -- at that point, I was just looking! So, as time went on, I got "wise" to this and started to ask sellers if they would lower the price or I would make an offer.
Usually, when I visit MRR shows (as opposed to flea markets), sellers don't seem as flexible.
I was also pleasantly surprised that this flea market had a fair bit of MRR stuff I was interested in -- i.e. vintage as well as brand new 00 British model trains. The ironic thing was that I only came away with one small freight car while I bought my sons some toy motor cycles --
Go figure! ... Even though there were some deals there, I was feeling a little tight-fisted today -- or guilty -- because I've recently spent a fair bit on this hobby, even though I was tempted.
The show seemed fairly well attended even though we arrived a couple hours before closing. At any rate, am I just out of touch with the nature of flea markets or are MRR sellers suddenly more willing to negotiate? In either case, I think I've been missing out!
Rob
Rob,Actually some train show dealers will haggle over prices..I seldom pay the asking price and I am not below saying :One of your competitors has the same (say) car for (say) $12.00..Can you meet that price? 90% of the time the dealer will meet or go below the other price...There's nothing wrong with old fashion haggling.
Last year at the First Annual Ohio N Scale Weekend I picked up a N&W GP9 and a N&W NE6 caboose for $60.00 by haggling..A very good deal.
I think the willingness to deal at flea markets is a good example of the differences in flea markets vs mrr shows. At flea markets, consumers have a perceived expectation that the offerings are probably going to be from private individuals, used stuff, engines that need a little TLC, etc. The cost of setting up at a flea market is probably cheap, probably less than $500 for a table for the weekend. Consequently, the sellers are more willing to negotiate. They may be motivated to make $$$, but a lot of them are there to unload some of the stuff in their basement to make room for more stuff. At shows, the expectation of the consumer is that it's just another off-site location for a hobby shop, items are new in the box, lots of layouts and clubs, seminars, etc. More 'vendors' vs private individuals. So the vendors are selling the same inventory at the same price, trying to get as close to retail as possible. The cost of their booth is probably at least $1000 for the weekend. They have to sell well over $2000 just to break even in the retail world. They will be much less inclined to negotiate. They might price some 'clearance' stuff or give a 10% 'show special', but that's about it. I even bought a roundhouse kit with a bright red discount show special tag boasting a big discount, only to get home, remove the sticker to reveal the same price on his store price tag!
Flea market vs show.....garage sale vs estate sale....it's all in the presentation.
Richard,Actually tables range in price from $15.00-30.00 depending on the show...I seen 'em as low as $12.00 for small shows-a small show usually has 10-12 dealers and draws around 250-300 attendees.
Wow, that's really cheap. I was guesstimating based on the only mrr shows I've been to here in the Dallas/Ft Worth area are quite large, probably 200 tables/booths at large civic centers and such. I exhibit at several scuba venues a year and it costs me $1000 per 10x10 booth. Good call....at $12 a table, maybe I'll grab some junk and try to make a buck
scubadude Wrote:I think the willingness to deal at flea markets is a good example of the differences in flea markets vs mrr shows. At flea markets, consumers have a perceived expectation that the offerings are probably going to be from private individuals, used stuff, engines that need a little TLC, etc. The cost of setting up at a flea market is probably cheap, probably less than $500 for a table for the weekend. Consequently, the sellers are more willing to negotiate. They may be motivated to make $$$, but a lot of them are there to unload some of the stuff in their basement to make room for more stuff. At shows, the expectation of the consumer is that it's just another off-site location for a hobby shop, items are new in the box, lots of layouts and clubs, seminars, etc. More 'vendors' vs private individuals. So the vendors are selling the same inventory at the same price, trying to get as close to retail as possible. The cost of their booth is probably at least $1000 for the weekend. They have to sell well over $2000 just to break even in the retail world. They will be much less inclined to negotiate. They might price some 'clearance' stuff or give a 10% 'show special', but that's about it. I even bought a roundhouse kit with a bright red discount show special tag boasting a big discount, only to get home, remove the sticker to reveal the same price on his store price tag!
Flea market vs show.....garage sale vs estate sale....it's all in the presentation.
Thanks, Richard. All of this makes sense and is helpful, especially that sellers at flea markets are probably largely made up of non-LHR people selling off their extra used stuff. Cheers, Rob
Thanks for all of these replies!
I was mostly surprised by how sellers immediately offered to lower their prices almost as soon as I walked over to their tables.
I think I do my best negotiating when I'm very relaxed & casual about it. Personality-wise, I'm not aggressive or pushy, so if I casually offer a lower price or start to negotiate, sellers seems to respond well. On the other hand, if I'm upright and firm, they respond abruptly or refuse to negotiate! I guess it all boils down to people skills.
I've noticed this happening in other areas. Once, my wife and I were interested in buying a van. We liked the practical nature of the van but were only sort-of interested (I was put off because, IMO, a van is one of the most un-cool vehicles you can buy!). Because we were so relaxed & casual, this car dealer kept offering us better deals & discounts. I was quite amused by this and often try to apply this technique shopping!
Rob
I've also noticed that prices sometimes get better an hour or two before closing on the last day at model rr shows. This is particularly true with the "swap meet quality" grab bag stuff (used body shells,old freight cars, etc.) that many of the dealers have. They would rather take home a bit less money than pack up the stuff for the next show. Of course the down side is that if you want a specific item that the dealer has, it may be gone if you wait.
Russ Bellinis Wrote:I've also noticed that prices sometimes get better an hour or two before closing on the last day at model rr shows. This is particularly true with the "swap meet quality" grab bag stuff (used body shells,old freight cars, etc.) that many of the dealers have. They would rather take home a bit less money than pack up the stuff for the next show. Of course the down side is that if you want a specific item that the dealer has, it may be gone if you wait.
Yes, I wondered about that as well. This particular flea market was open from 10am to 3pm. We got there around 1pm, so that might have been part of the incentive -- to get rid of things before packing up & leaving. Rob
Russ Bellinis Wrote:Of course the down side is that if you want a specific item that the dealer has, it may be gone if you wait.
This is my weakness. I've been conditioned to just buy when i see things, and lately its been biting me because i've been picking up things that aren't as good in quality as i would like. For example, at a commuter modeling show, I saw SEPTA commuter cars.
These cars were produced by walthers in the 90s without SEPTA license. SEPTA cracked down on Walthers, and so SEPTA cars are not available (this is why Atlas has a SEPTA AEM7 model like that in my profile picture). I already had a 6 car set, but i saw a bunch of 4 for cheap. I did make an offer that was cheaper than the worth of the cars (if they were in good shape), but i somehow missed many flaws and issues that i would have preferred to pay much less for. They were missing wheel-sets, and the paint was scuffed on some. I could go and repaint or rework these cars, but that would be a pain.
I've also failed to grab things and have had people literally yank things away as soon as i put them down.
I'm thinking that I'm going to have to discriminate more in the future.
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:Russ Bellinis Wrote:Of course the down side is that if you want a specific item that the dealer has, it may be gone if you wait.
This is my weakness. I've been conditioned to just buy when i see things, and lately its been biting me because i've been picking up things that aren't as good in quality as i would like. For example, at a commuter modeling show, I saw SEPTA commuter cars.
These cars were produced by walthers in the 90s without SEPTA license. SEPTA cracked down on Walthers, and so SEPTA cars are not available (this is why Atlas has a SEPTA AEM7 model like that in my profile picture). I already had a 6 car set, but i saw a bunch of 4 for cheap. I did make an offer that was cheaper than the worth of the cars (if they were in good shape), but i somehow missed many flaws and issues that i would have preferred to pay much less for. They were missing wheel-sets, and the paint was scuffed on some. I could go and repaint or rework these cars, but that would be a pain.
I've also failed to grab things and have had people literally yank things away as soon as i put them down.
I'm thinking that I'm going to have to discriminate more in the future.
It's tricky because you have to make a quick judgement call and either decide to buy it (or not buy it) very fast. At these shows, you could easily end up with 2-3 items of fair quality or totally miss out. I'm planning to attend the Great British Train Show near Toronto tomorrow. There should be lots of good deals there but I don't want to buy the first things I see but I also don't want to miss all the deals!
Rob
Just do what I do......hide it in the back of the box under the box under the table...after all - all's fair in love and flea markets!!
scubadude Wrote:Just do what I do......hide it in the back of the box under the box under the table...after all - all's fair in love and flea markets!!
I think i have a solution. we should got to flea markets in packs. For example, if i find a Conrail engine i like, but i want to search for another, one of you can hold it and stare at it for an few moments. Meanwhile, we'll all scan and search for what each other is looking for and then all hold the different pieces until we're sure. That way, everyone has what they want at a price they want to pay, without having to worry about loosing out while you search for other things.