Interesting points Kevin.
As a LHS owner and one who's business is growing, I will chime in here and address your points.

nachoman Wrote:1) Cater to multiple hobbies, and make sure there is an employee that knows about them. I don't think a hobby store can survive just catering to one hobby anymore.

In our case, we only sell model railroad accessories, scenery supplies, paint and wood. However, our shop is also a computer repair shop. We could not survive on MR alone. <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.muskokacomputes.com">www.muskokacomputes.com</a><!-- w -->

nachoman Wrote:2) Make the store inviting. Most of the hobby stores I have been to are disorganized, crowded, confusing, and generally uninviting for most people. Clearly separate the various departments, make sure the lighting is good, and have displays to catch the eye. This philosophy works for super markets - why won't it work for LHS?

The shop is nice and bright, the product is separated into HO and N scale with scenery in a center section.
The manufacturer's product is kept together in each scale. and nicely displayed.

nachoman Wrote:3) Have a display layout that customers can operate, and do similar for other hobbies. Perhaps you can draw in customers who just want to come in to check out the display, and they decide to buy something. Or perhaps they come in to buy something for their RC car, and their kid becomes captivated by the HO layout. Take the Cabella's approach - make it appealing to simply browse and have fun!

We have an N scale display layout, it was the result of an online track planning contest and was created by a Swissman who came around to world to create it for us. it will be display only no customer operation. Some people don't understand that trains do not go 500KPH and if they do, they will leave the track. Maybe if we had gone DCC and set ACC/DEC limits.

nachoman Wrote:4) Friendly staff. I quit going to one store because the owner was a bit of a jerk. I don't care how much you know, If you are a jerk to me and act like you don't want my business, I won't be back.

We try to be a friendly folk, even with a customer who is being a jerk. Customers should be friendly as well, not continually point out that if they ordered it online they could get it much cheaper. Two things they forget... 1. shipping will cost you. 2. if it is not right, you may have to jump through hoops to return it. We had one customer who bought a locomotive online, when it arrived it was dead, so he sent it back to the online store... they had sent it to him parcel post and he returned it the same way. The parcel was lost in transit, the suppplier said they never recieved it and the post office said it was delivered. But since the fellow forgot to request request a signature, nothing could be done.

nachoman Wrote:5) Make sure the basic items are in stock!!! there is nothing more frustrating than going over to the paint rack, and seeing half the paint colors sold out - including the most popular colors. I can't emphasize this point enough. Sometimes I need one more bag of green ground foam, and I drive across town thinking it should always be in stock only to find out they are sold out, and have been sold out for MONTHS.

I agree about the ``Out Of Stock`` situation. We can`t have everything in stock at all times, but we do listen to a customer, If you come in and want something, we order it for you. So it will be here the next time.

nachoman Wrote:6) Location. Is it me, or are most LHS extremely out of the way or hard to find? I am not saying they need to be on the prime corner in town, but at least put them near a residential area and in a location where some proper signs or window displays could bring in foot traffic.

In our case we are right on Main Street in the heart of our little town.

nachoman Wrote:7) Internet. I don't think a store needs to emphasize internet sales - but a lot of customers like to check out a store's website before visiting, or even calling. The website need to be easy to navigate, clearly list what is normally in stock and what services they have, and list a few items that are on special.

We do sell more online than in our shop, this is because our area is rural and our town has 18,000 with another 10-15,000 within easy driving. However online we have the entire world to sell to.

Another reason that I buy most of my locomotives from my local hobby shop is that they take every locomotive out of the box and test run it before they put it on the shelf. In addition every time a customer buys a locomotive, it is taken out of the case, put on the tracks and test run in dcc with a test of the sound if it is so equipped, before it is put back into the packaging and the box for purchase. I have been there when they received a shipment of locomotives and discovered that typically the only locomotives that run correctly out of the box 99% of the time are Athearn. Kato, BLI, Intermountain, Atlas, and Bachmann all have at least 10% and in many cases up to 40% failure rate out of the box. Those locomotives they don't even mess with, they just send them back. When they run the Katos, Atlas, and BLI models may run better than the Athearns when they work, but they are not as consistent out of the box. I don't order locomotives online or mail order ever.

I would like to put in my 2 1/2 cents worth, if I may. I do not have a LHS in my area. There are only two model train shops in Roanoke, sixty miles away. They are both okay, but they'd rather talk and sell RC stuff. I have made them offers of a slightly lowered price, but have been informed I should leave them my phone number, and they'd call me if they ever decided to lower the price. I did, they didn't.

Having worked in retail sales most of my adult life, I know what's what when it comes to pleasing customers. They may not always be right, but they are the one paying your bills. The most important person you'll ever meet is the one buying from you. Don't insult people's intelligence, they may actually know what they are talking about. Determine what kind of day you are going to have, (hopefully a good one,) and don't let any one change it. Nobody comes in to your place of business to be grumped at, or be treated in a condescending manner. Be willing to listen to your custmer's woes, within reason, if they need to vent to you. Don't accept abuse from anyone. Smile at them, and make them your friend. It's far easier to deal with a friend than an enemy.

I think that's about 2 1/2 cents worth!!

nachoman Wrote:On another forum, threads appear about every other week with the subject of "My LHS is closing" or "This hobby is dying". Frankly, it gets old. The thread always develops a negative tone, and I decide to quit reading them. The points that are brought up are usually the same:

1) Usually the store is closing because the owner wants to retire.
2) The store has been there for ages.
3) Usually at least one person will chime in about how the store was terrible anyway, so good riddance. It is usually prices or poor return policy that fuels the complaint.
4) And then the conclusion is the same - the hobby is dying, LHS can't compete, and we should all panic.

I don't want to re-kindle that despair here. But it does make me think about what the LHS can do to make a profitable business. If you were to open an LHS what would you do to make things work? If I was to open an LHS today, I would:

1) Cater to multiple hobbies, and make sure there is an employee that knows about them. I don't think a hobby store can survive just catering to one hobby anymore.
2) Make the store inviting. Most of the hobby stores I have been to are disorganized, crowded, confusing, and generally uninviting for most people. Clearly separate the various departments, make sure the lighting is good, and have displays to catch the eye. This philosophy works for super markets - why won't it work for LHS?
3) Have a display layout that customers can operate, and do similar for other hobbies. Perhaps you can draw in customers who just want to come in to check out the display, and they decide to buy something. Or perhaps they come in to buy something for their RC car, and their kid becomes captivated by the HO layout. Take the Cabella's approach - make it appealing to simply browse and have fun!
4) Friendly staff. I quit going to one store because the owner was a bit of a jerk. I don't care how much you know, If you are a jerk to me and act like you don't want my business, I won't be back.
5) Make sure the basic items are in stock!!! there is nothing more frustrating than going over to the paint rack, and seeing half the paint colors sold out - including the most popular colors. I can't emphasize this point enough. Sometimes I need one more bag of green ground foam, and I drive across town thinking it should always be in stock only to find out they are sold out, and have been sold out for MONTHS.
6) Location. Is it me, or are most LHS extremely out of the way or hard to find? I am not saying they need to be on the prime corner in town, but at least put them near a residential area and in a location where some proper signs or window displays could bring in foot traffic.
7) Internet. I don't think a store needs to emphasize internet sales - but a lot of customers like to check out a store's website before visiting, or even calling. The website need to be easy to navigate, clearly list what is normally in stock and what services they have, and list a few items that are on special.

Personally, I don't think the LHS is a dead business. If done correctly, I truly think it could be a money-maker - provided the owner is willing to adapt and put forth the effort. What do you think?

Quote:Catering to multiple hobbies

: means less time and effort devoted to MRR, which does not generally draw the railroading crowd to the store. There is a prime example in northern
Denver - they boast a "wall of trains" but 80% of the store is about things other than railroading. I went once and never went back.

Quote:"Make sure the basic items are in stock"

...whose "basic" would that be? Yours? Mine? Garden gauge? N-scale? What is "basic", anyway?

Quote:Location:

location = cost-per-square-foot=overhead. The biggest MRR shop in the Front Range area is probably the Caboose, located in a somewhat seedy part of Denver and looking like a chop shop from the outside. I don't care where the store is - I care how it is staffed and what they carry. If they were right in the middle of the trendiest shop[ping center in town, I wouldn't be able to afford them in the first place.

LHS's are dying because the hobby is becoming more expensive and more select, and because the entire modeling demographic has changed drastically over the years. Kids today want iPod's and other electronic gadgets and do not want to think hard or practice the skills and patience needed for a hobby like this, nor are many of them prepared to sink the money and effort into layout building. Like many other hobbies, younger people look, but it's the older crowd that spends the money and does the modeling.

And, like everything else in America, it's all made in China anyway.

A LHS in my area is going out of business. The owner is retiring after 27 years. So far my experiences in there have been okay, but by no means extraordinary. I didn't leave there wanting to tell others how great it was. But I try not to say anything bad about someone and when I do I only say what I'd be willing to say TO them.

Speaking generally, I don't like it when hobby shop owners/employees assume I have no money or no skill (because I'm in my 30's? because I'm not well dressed? because they don't know me from a local club? Who knows...). Frankly, I don't like it when folks on forums do that either...few posts does not automatically mean 'newbie'. Thankfully that is not the case here at The Gauge!

The easiest way to solve this is to ask questions. I think people don't ask enough questions because we're afraid it'll make us look dumb or inexperienced. But that does not have to be the case. How else do you learn? There are no dumb questions, and the best four-letter word is 'help'!

So when a hobby shop employee takes a few seconds to learn about me, it says to me they are interested in my business because they want to find out what I'm interested in purchasing. If I know you've been into HO for 20+ years and love kitbashing, then I may suggest certain products or ask if you need any supplies related to a project you're working on. "How can I help you" is so basic but it's better than a sideways glare from behind the glass counter.

Galen

A lot of Galen's reply (and others in this thread) are true of any kind of retailing, not just the hobby industry.

Andrew

Yes Andrew, you have hit it right on the head. I am very close to the owners of a local hardware store. They have always done very well, and beat any competition because they know their business, and treat the customers right. Their business has been dropping off seriously for the last 3 years. So, do you think it just might be that they decided they didn't need to be open on Saturdays 3 years ago. These guys have been in the business for 40 years, You would think they would have known better.
They will be open on Saturdays once again beginning next week.
Charlie

I agree i have too seen alot of local small town shops close just to leave an empty space. Saddly some went shortly after walmart and lowes come in to town, then since post 9/11 alot has changed. But to me i have two hobby shops that i turn to if i need something, yet as most if we can find it cheaper we go. I know the hobby shops need money to survive. But one shop i go thruogh offers 10% off all orders and after a certain amount you get a buck back and it repeats as you spend more, they also offer discounts on new starters in the hobby from locos to tracks. Ok enuff for now.