On another forum, threads appear about every other week with the subject of "My LHS is closing" or "This hobby is dying". Frankly, it gets old. The thread always develops a negative tone, and I decide to quit reading them. The points that are brought up are usually the same:
1) Usually the store is closing because the owner wants to retire.
2) The store has been there for ages.
3) Usually at least one person will chime in about how the store was terrible anyway, so good riddance. It is usually prices or poor return policy that fuels the complaint.
4) And then the conclusion is the same - the hobby is dying, LHS can't compete, and we should all panic.
I don't want to re-kindle that despair here. But it does make me think about what the LHS can do to make a profitable business. If you were to open an LHS what would you do to make things work? If I was to open an LHS today, I would:
1) Cater to multiple hobbies, and make sure there is an employee that knows about them. I don't think a hobby store can survive just catering to one hobby anymore.
2) Make the store inviting. Most of the hobby stores I have been to are disorganized, crowded, confusing, and generally uninviting for most people. Clearly separate the various departments, make sure the lighting is good, and have displays to catch the eye. This philosophy works for super markets - why won't it work for LHS?
3) Have a display layout that customers can operate, and do similar for other hobbies. Perhaps you can draw in customers who just want to come in to check out the display, and they decide to buy something. Or perhaps they come in to buy something for their RC car, and their kid becomes captivated by the HO layout. Take the Cabella's approach - make it appealing to simply browse and have fun!
4) Friendly staff. I quit going to one store because the owner was a bit of a jerk. I don't care how much you know, If you are a jerk to me and act like you don't want my business, I won't be back.
5) Make sure the basic items are in stock!!! there is nothing more frustrating than going over to the paint rack, and seeing half the paint colors sold out - including the most popular colors. I can't emphasize this point enough. Sometimes I need one more bag of green ground foam, and I drive across town thinking it should always be in stock only to find out they are sold out, and have been sold out for MONTHS.
6) Location. Is it me, or are most LHS extremely out of the way or hard to find? I am not saying they need to be on the prime corner in town, but at least put them near a residential area and in a location where some proper signs or window displays could bring in foot traffic.
7) Internet. I don't think a store needs to emphasize internet sales - but a lot of customers like to check out a store's website before visiting, or even calling. The website need to be easy to navigate, clearly list what is normally in stock and what services they have, and list a few items that are on special.
Personally, I don't think the LHS is a dead business. If done correctly, I truly think it could be a money-maker - provided the owner is willing to adapt and put forth the effort. What do you think?
Sound advice in theory. My boys and I went into a local RC shop to see what they had. Once inside, we noticed that he had a multiple lane track setup for racing with car rentals available. We rented several and now my boys each want cars of their own.
Location should be a no brainer if you want to see good traffic flow. How succesful were you at finding Coronado scale hobbies for the first time? I drove past it twice before I finally found it.
On a local note, have you been to the new location of An Affair with Trains up on Deer Valley? And, did you know The Freight Yard shut down?
TrainNut Wrote:Sound advice in theory. My boys and I went into a local RC shop to see what they had. Once inside, we noticed that he had a multiple lane track setup for racing with car rentals available. We rented several and now my boys each want cars of their own.
Location should be a no brainer if you want to see good traffic flow. How succesful were you at finding Coronado scale hobbies for the first time? I drove past it twice before I finally found it.
On a local note, have you been to the new location of An Affair with Trains up on Deer Valley? And, did you know The Freight Yard shut down?
I don't think the guys at Coronado really want to make money. I see their "store" as more of an extension of their own hobby. But I agree, the place is probably more difficult to find than a prohibition era speakeasy. I had never been to the freight yard, but I am glad you told me they shut down, because I had been meaning to head up that way just for the heck of it. I havent been to An affair with Trains since they moved. Frankly, I thought the store was going downhill before they moved - and I really have no desire to drive that much further only to be disappointed again. The Hobby Bench at 19th and Northern carries more than they do, and they are primarily an r/c and craft supply store.
Gee... I get to save myself a lot of typing.
I'll just cut and paste my comments from an e-mail I sent to someone else on this topic:
I hate the Mantra "Support your local Hobby Shop."
There needs to be a shift in the whole Model Railway Culture and the business model needs to adapt instead of being artificially propped up [or dare
I say bailed out].
"Support your local Hobby Shop." sounds like "Save the Whales" or "Give generously to the Widows and Orphans Fund". Pity Purchases are like charity. There was a morbid element to the conversation, like hearing the obituaries.
Yes, Hobby Shops give value added retail services.
However...
One of the main things that is killing the Hobby Shop is overhead. Model Railroaders are spoiled by choice and it is impossible to stock the whole variety.
The business model is changing. Bricks and Mortar shops are being replaced by Basement operations and Internet sales.
I remember talking to the guys at Keith's Hobby Shop before they moved. They gave up on stocking any Model Railway specific merchandise. They said that they couldn't commit that amount of capital into having enough variety to get the ROI needed. They didn't want to deal with "I like that model, but its in the wrong Livery or the wrong road number or the wrong.... etc...".
And then there's the manufacturers who will not sell through department stores. They think that they are protecting the hobby shops, but I think that the policy is having the opposite effect. As a kid, I couldn't get to a hobby shop easily, but a department store was within walking distance. They didn't have much stuff, but it was enough for me to whet my appetite and go looking for more.
The Big Box Department Stores all sell miniature village stuff for christmas and for the garden. They should be selling On30 and g-scale trainsets to go with them. The Big Box Department Stores should be selling better model trains than the battery operated plastic junk that they have.
There are Vendors and Hobby Shops that do most of their sales on-line and get their exposure at the shows.
Two suggestions:
Change to a Kiosk operation in a high-rent mall location. Lots of exposure, but less overhead in a small footprint. Keep a few high ticket items on display to draw in the crowds, but mainly stock the generic stuff, like flex-track, paints and scenic material. The type of stuff that the serious modellers will want on a moments notice. Otherwise, operate as a catalogue store. Have people order through you to the Manufacturers and Distributors.
Keep the rest of your stock in your car or basement and remember to rotate stock.
The other idea is to set up shop inside the local club-house. Mostly the same idea as the Kiosk but there'd be a symbiont relationship between the Vendor and the Landlord. I'm not suggesting that a new hobby shop do this. I'm suggesting that a struggling hobby shop does this rather than going out of business.
In either case, set up a co-op where members pay a membership fee in exchange for closer to wholesale pricing and other perks like coupler upgrades, DCC installations and run-in, etc...
Not that I've ever given this subject any thought...
This brings me around to the related topic of "Promoting the Hobby".
I suppose that it makes me a hypocrite because of my deep involvement in train shows, but I say "Phooey" to the concept of "Promoting the Hobby."
Vendors and Manufacturers can do the promoting.
If the big Manufacturers and distributors are seriously interested in reaching out and advertising to the world in order to promote and expand the number of people involved in the hobby, they've got the resources.
I am bothered by the suggestion that we as model railroaders are somehow responsible for promoting the hobby to the general populace while the Manufacturers and Distributors get a free ride.
However, they are not advertising in National News Papers and magazines. Anything that goes on television is done as general interest fluff segments on early morning news broadcasts.
They spend their dollars on advertising to the already converted through specific publications aimed directly at their already captive market.
It is left to individual model railroaders to try and pull their family, friends, co-workers and acquaintances into the hobby.
The Corporations are getting us to do the advertising and promotions for free; or else forcing individuals to seek out information and materials on their own.
If you are already interested and involved in model railroading, I'm happy to talk to you and share what I have to offer, but I'm not seeking out any converts.
I like to watch some sports too, but I'm not paying to advertise for the team or league by buying their merchandise and wearing it. I'm not a billboard: They'd have to pay me to become one.
I've tried "Promoting" in the past and I don't like it anymore.
Train shows are for getting together and sharing with like minded folks and if neophytes are interested in joining in, I'll answer questions, but I'm not going to try and sell them the hobby anymore.
Excellent comments, TinGoat!
Another thing I have thought of is hours of operation. If you own your own business, don't expect a 9-5 job. You have to be open when your customers need you. For a hobby shop, that means WEEKENDS, and extended hours on weekends! Not reduced hours on weekends. Sure, many of your customers are retirees, but us working folks can't visit your store if you are only open monday through friday 9-5. Many, many times I would have rather gone to a local owned store, but had to go to home depot or wal mart because the local place was closed on sunday.
nachoman Wrote:Another thing I have thought of is hours of operation. If you own your own business, don't expect a 9-5 job. You have to be open when your customers need you.
Thanks!
You are absolutely right about hours of operation.
Even the banks are open longer hours than traditional "Bankers Hours".
Especially when you have to make a pilgrimage to get to the not-so-local LHS. If I don't get out of work until 5 and it'll take me more than an hour to get to the LHS, You'd better be open when I get there after 6.
Which also means that you'd better keep your website up to date.
I tried to get to a hobby shop, only to find out that they were on "Summer Hours" and closed earlier than what was posted on the website..
I don't expect people to be crowding into a hobby shop at 9am, but I'd think that it would be busy after 6pm.
Be open for the lunch hour and after...
TinGoat Wrote:Gee... I get to save myself a lot of typing.
I'll just cut and paste my comments from an e-mail I sent to someone else on this topic:
I hate the Mantra "Support your local Hobby Shop."
There needs to be a shift in the whole Model Railway Culture and the business model needs to adapt instead of being artificially propped up [or dare
I say bailed out].
"Support your local Hobby Shop." sounds like "Save the Whales" or "Give generously to the Widows and Orphans Fund". Pity Purchases are like charity. There was a morbid element to the conversation, like hearing the obituaries.
I have no problem supporting a LHS, just as long as they return the favor and support the hobbyists. If they can't so that then my business goes elsewhere.
Truthfully If I were to open a hobby shop it would be an online shop, with a disclaimer at the bottom stating that locals would be welcome to stop by if they called in advance to assure I was there. There would be no traditional "shop" but my inventory would be in my basement and almost all business would be over the internet. I do stop by hobby shops when I see them, and I usually leave with something, and there is one about 15 miles away that I do buy from when I can. The couple of shops we had in the area were generally not convenient, 11-6 weekdays, 11-4 on Saturday, and always closed on Sunday. Generally, if I was off, the shop was closed.
The hobby is not dying, just changing. the internet hobby shop is the new hobby shop.
The hobby is not dying, just changing. the internet hobby shop is the new hobby shop.
Yep, and you can just browse for hours, and never be watched like "He's gonna put something in his pocket".
There are too many stores (not only hobby shops) that treat all customers like they are shoplifters. I know theft is a problem, but if profiling were once again PC maybe folks would let me look around. For goodness sakes, I'm 66 years old and have been shopping at these places forever, and they don't have what I came for anyway.
Charlie
Oh boy my favorite discussion.
First I will deal with that "Support your local Hobby Shop." battle cry...
Why should I support a shop that charges full MSRP,has old stock and limited new stock?
Why should I support a shop that won't cut a deal on a large order or when I offer to buy 2 locomotives? Even $20.00 of the pair would close the deal.I will spend that $20.00 on other things like MT couplers and maybe a freight car or vehicle. But,
Nooooooo you Mr.Hobby Shop owner wants to be a egghead about it.
Why should I support a shop that thinks I am going to shoplift? I know that happens but,why must you Mr.Hobby Shop owner watch my every move and make me feel like a common criminal?
Why should I support a shop whose owner is nothing more then a grump? Everybody has bad days but,not every day.
Why should I support a shop that doesn't even greet me or know my name? A thank you would be nice as well.
Now Mr.Hobby Shop owner you know why I buy very little in your shop.
Here's some more reasons that can drive off customers.
A small shop I stopped in years ago smelled of cat poo..
hock: Think I stayed long enough to purchase anything? Nope besides I figured that smell would be on the boxes.
Another well stock shop with decent prices I dropped in years ago the owner was puffing away on a foul smelling cigar while drinking a beer..I know it was mere coincidence but,when I walk toward the counter I heard this loud
GREEERUP! and the smell was terrible! :o I made a hasty retreat to the car kit aisle..There has been several shops that lacked customer tact as well.
IF today's hobby shop wants to survive they must let go the old ways and embrace the new.A Internet presence with a easy to use shopping cart with moderate discounts will increase your sales..
They must learn to work with their customers on prices if the owner wants those large sales.Being pigheaded and sticking to your full MSRP doesn't help you win that large sale..
And remember this Mr.Hobby Shop owner you can be your own worst enemy when it comes to driving customers away to those on line shops that you loathe so much..
I think the most successful hobby shop I've been to in the Los Angeles area uses a business model that is common for most businesses, but apparently lacking in much of the local hobby industry. That model is "turn your inventory 3-4 times per year." This shop puts a modest discount on all new inventory in the store when it is first received, except books, magazines, and detail parts, coffee mugs etc. Anything still on the shelf after 3-4 months is put on sale at a steep discount. They also have a "deal table" where they sell estate sale items for pennies on the dollar verses new prices. If an item is on the shelf for 5 or 6 months, it goes on the "deal table". Typically an Athearn Genesis, Kato, P2k, or Atlas locomotive that has been on the shelf too long will be sold on the deal table at 1/2 msrp sometimes less. The store is strictly a train store no other hobbies, but they always have full shelves. The owner and his employees are friendly, no one is pushy, but if you need help, they are ready to help.
You see the same sort of marketing strategy with the big internet/mail order stores that have had 2 and 3 page ads in the magazines for decades. When a new model locomotive first comes out, they will offer it at a discount calculated to be big enough to make you want to order from them instead of your local shop. 3-6 months later, that same model will be offered at "blow out prices."
Inventory left sitting on the shelf at high prices is eating up money that could be better used to get fresh inventory. As an example, when Intermountain first came out with F-7 kits, my local hobby shop bought two undecorated body only kits. They were priced at $50.00 each for a body kit with no running gear. 6 years later they were still on the shelf under the glass counter at $50.00 each. That was when I asked one of the guys behind the counter, "How much would the owner be willing to sell those kits for to get rid of them?" My friend behind the counter was of the opinion that the owner would sit on those kits forever if necessary before he would lower the price. I said go ahead and ask him anyway. When I got home from work the next day, I had a message on my phone saying that he would take $70.00 for both to get rid of them. I went down immediately to buy them. These kits were not "shake the box" type. They have enough details to model almost any prototype with extra details left over. I haven't built them yet, but am looking forward to it in the near future.
Russ Bellinis Wrote:They also have a "deal table" where they sell estate sale items for pennies on the dollar verses new prices.
And if the stuff on the "deal table" is is constantly changing, and is not broken items - you will get people who stop by your store just to see what is on the table. Those people may find something they like on the table, and pick up some detail parts, couplers, paint or other items while they are there. The thrill of finding that great bargain lures them in. Right now, I only go to the LHS when I need something. I don't have time to go in there just to socialize or browse the magazine rack.
waffled long and hard about chiming in..... Everyone's favorite retailer is the least favorite of someone else. Lots of good ones and lots of bad ones out there as well. I am Not going to go into the whole discussion on discounting or overhead or what it takes to maintain a retail operation without starving or going bankrupt or even discuss basement or garage dealers.......
will leave it to just adding this link: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.the350project.net/home.html">http://www.the350project.net/home.html</a><!-- m -->
not specifically about hobby shops but worth a look IMHO.
I know many will chime in after reading and say "hey that's not my problem" or "why should I care about that local business?" or maybe "its not my problem... I just want the best deal going" I hear you.... but there is a lot more to it than that unless of course you are too short sighted to see it.
Now to find my armchair and watch what happens
bob_suruncle Wrote:will leave it to just adding this link: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.the350project.net/home.html">http://www.the350project.net/home.html</a><!-- m -->
not specifically about hobby shops but worth a look IMHO.
I agree that I should make an effort to buy things that I need locally.
However, I will not subscribe to the "Save the Local Hobby Shop" and make pity purchases of stuff that I don't want or need. I hate to be forced to NEVER leave the store empty handed, no matter what.
TinGoat Wrote:I agree that I should make an effort to buy things that I need locally.
However, I will not subscribe to the "Save the Local Hobby Shop" and make pity purchases of stuff that I don't want or need. I hate to be forced to NEVER leave the store empty handed, no matter what.
When I was living in Utah, there was some public backlash against a new wal-mart coming into town. They wanted a prime piece of real estate at a major crossroads. Wal mart would pay the store that was at that location to relocate across the road. People were afraid the wal-mart would drive away local businesses. Here are the facts:
1) There already was another wal-mart in town
2) There werent very many local businesses that sold the same things. The town was almost all big box stores and chain restaurants already
3) People claimed the store that would be forced to relocate was a local store, but in fact it was also a chain (A kroger using a regional name)
4) the store that the wal mart would be replacing was not open sundays
Friends of mine tried to get me to protest the new wal mart. I replied, "why? There are barely any local businesses in town anyway, and the ones that are aren't open when I need to shop." Don't get me wrong - I loathe wal mart. But I didn't see how the new store would ruin what wasn't already ruined.
I don't see why internet stores have to ruin LHS businesses. Personally, i would much rather shop local even if it is a chain as to not give UPS and FedEX (my sworn enemies) my business.