:cry:

If the emoticons aren't an indicator, I'm downright pissed off at Kalmbach publishing.

Not only have they dumped the Model Train Magazine Index, they have locked the thread on the MR forum in which to vent about the decision! First they buy the index, then, when it's no longer easy or convenient to maintain, they just dump it. Did they do any searching around to find someone else to maintain it? What about the NMRA?

Grrr! A collection of old magazines is now that much closer to impossible to use, whereas before it was really, really nice to have such a useful tool for accessing classic articles. Oh well.

Here are the appropriate links:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/176811.aspx">http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/176811.aspx</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://index.mrmag.com/">http://index.mrmag.com/</a><!-- m -->

waiting for the other shoe to drop,

Galen

I see that they retain their individual magazine "back issue" indexes (e.g. MR goes back to 1986).

I believe them when they say that outmoded technology is making it hard to support and allowing security issues to creep in. However, if Kalmbach form holds true I expect that you will soon be able to buy access to a "new & improved" index.

Andrew

Have you tried using their back issue index? Has it been successful? My experience with it today was not.

What led me to discover the MTMI was down for the count, was an intent to search for the series of articles in MR called the 'ABC's of Bridges'. I think it was back in the 80's. It didn't show up in their back-issue search when I typed 'bridges' or 'bridge' or 'abc's' so perhaps it's prior to 1986?

Still miffed.... :evil:


Galen

Quote:We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon... (interrupted by applause) we choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

Perhaps others, like Carstens or Model Railroad Hobbyist, will accept the challenge? Or does Kalmbach still hold the rights to the index, even if the pansies won't rise to the occasion and quit whining about how hard it is? Yes, you heard me, I called you a pansy! Now bring it! Like anybody from Kalmbach deigns to read this lowly forum and would dare to comment. Maybe that oughtta be a triple-dog-dare?

Galen

I remember hearing that speach ... I was in 10th Grade, I think, or maybe it was 9th Grade, no ... I think it was Eleventh ... Is was a few years back!

Suppose there was an interactive, computer-based index that not only dealt with Model Railroader, but also with RMC and some of the others? One that, say, you wanted to build a L&NE coverd hopper ... or wanted to know some history on the Arch Bar truck. Suppose all you had to do would be to type in "Arch Bar truck" and then hit Enter and every article that had been pulished in any of the popular magazines in recent times on the topic of Arch Bar trucks came up in a listing ... would that be an interesting, usable index to replace the one MR is taking away from us?

Is that something that anyone would find interesting enough to beta test? ... Galen?

I personally don't have the computer know how to rebuild the database or even suggest where to begin, but I know there are folks that do and I hope Kalmbach employs such folks. They do maintain a website and forums, afterall.

I believe there is the capability to scan articles into a computer then make the page searchable...perhaps in pdf form? Anyway, that would certainly take alot of time, but it's work a temp employee can do for minimum wage. All the programmer has to do is create the framework, I'd guess.

But like I said, I'm only guessing here since I don't have the computer chops. I still use my cell phone to just talk to people. I don't even text or send phone pictures or surf the web on my phone. It's a phone, not a laptop, and I like to actually talk with people.

But here's the word from the MR forum, from Besougloff himself, from the first of THREE locked threads:

Quote:Hi guys, Thanks for your comments about the index. I cannot emphasize enough that the index is 100% homemade. There is no sane way to extract the content and put it into a more contemporary database. The coding and the content are one. Even the clunky web interface, which one of the programmers here at Kalmbach built years ago, took a stunning amount of time to create. And now the index has become a security nightmare. This decision has nothing to do with bandwidth. The MR staff is just as disappointed as you are about the index since the staff uses it all the time. We do not have the resources to retype the entire index into a new database from scratch. I think all that can be said about the index has been said in this thread, so we will be locking this shortly. Sincerely, Neil Besougloff MR editor

Galen

Somehow, typing this on my laptop at the office, I'm not able to type much more than a few paragraphs before the screen starts sliding around and freaking out. Anyway, I should say I was happy with the old Index, even before it was purchased by Kalmbach. It had its flaws, of course, but it was useful and free.

So there's no 'sane' way to extract the content. Don't extract the content. Start fresh. A big, huge, daunting project? To be sure! But that's why I posted the Kennedy quote. That's also why I like Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine. Finally, someone is taking full advantage of all the internet has to offer and melding that with a publication. Clickable ads, videos, 360 views, linked with a forum? Slap-fantastic, as another gauger would say. All it takes is vision and determination.

"We have the technology...we can rebuild it...faster...stronger..." So quit whining and do it already! This was a valuable service for the Model Railroad community. As someone in the caring and serving 'business', I know the value of providing a great service to meet a need, and the thankfulness and loyalty that results. To me, and maybe to the average modeler with a pile of back issues sitting around, this is just one more poor decision Kalmbach has made. Shame on them.

Galen

Galen I was just read a thread about this same subject over at the Model Railroad Hobbyist message board. One of the guys there reported that Joe already approached Kalmbach asking them to donate the index to the NMRA hoping that the library staff at the NMRA headquarters could redo and update the index and post it on the NMRA web site.

Russ - I hope that's the outcome only IF the NMRA will really put the time and energy into maintaining it, or open it for members to maintain it with a level of accountability. If they do a good job with it, it might just persuade me to join...maybe. I'd see that as a great place to host such a resource, and I'd be happy to pay NMRA dues if that were a privelege of membership.

That said - I'd still rather it be free for anyone to use. Even so I recognize it's a niche resource for a select group of folks who will benefit. I still don't like MR's policy of 'subscriber only' extras...such web content should be free, IMHO. Which, as some folks are beginning to think and Andrew alluded to above, may be the fate of the index if left in Kalmbach's possession. That may be unlikely as long as it's inclusive of other publications. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath.

I am still enjoying my back issues, however, even though it's now harder to track down an elusive article.

thanks for listening to me vent, fellas.

Galen

I wasn't just kidding a couple of posts up! There just might be a searchable data base out there ... one that searches more than just MR ... just slinking about in the shadows. We just have to wait ...

I think the problem beyond the current listing being written in an obsolete computer language, is that keeping up an accurate index from month to month will require a bit of labor. The NMRA has a full time librarian and two or three part time helpers to do that job. Kalmbach is a business and labor has to be turned into profit. I don't begrudge giving extra perks to members of the NMRA. It costs money to run the organization and someone needs to pay for it. That being said, there would have been a lot bigger "pie" to split among the divisions and region after the 2008 National Convention in Anaheim had it not been for what could best be described as "dithering" by headquarters personal requiring extra conference rooms to be rented that weren't needed by the convention.

Model Railroader used to publish a paper index once a year... Anyone remember that?

I am curious what format the database is in. At my last job, they had old databases stored in a variety of unfamiliar formats (some paper indexes), and slowly they had made them available through Microsoft access. Of course, not all the information made it over. Some of the databases the public could purchase on CD, and query using Microsoft access. Eventually, they made the information available online and quit selling the CD databases. Since then, the people who maintain the database have been laid off, the people that maintain the website information have been laid off, the bookstore personnel who sold the CD to the public were laid off...

I guess my point is that perhaps Kalmbach is facing budget issues, and maintaining this database is no longer priority. Depending on the format, the maintenance of such an index took someone some time, and the publisher decided they "had to cut somewhere", and the index was deemed low priority.

Kevin - that's likely the case, if I had to guess. MR has all but said so in Neil's reply:

Quote:...We do not have the resources to retype the entire index into a new database from scratch....

But the attitude expressed in the same post is discouraging also:

Quote:Even the clunky web interface, which one of the programmers here at Kalmbach built years ago, took a stunning amount of time to create.

Could it be that they 'bought somebody else's train layout', to borrow an idea once published in that magazine? (Good luck finding that one, btw...a searchable database of articles would be nice...oh, wait... ) By that, I mean that it's often simpler to build it new than try and fit someone else's work into your basement. You can imagine the hassles that creates.

To call the interface 'clunky' reveals either a techno-snobbery or just plain disregard for utility. It wasn't all that bad, as far as searchable databases go. Have you spent much time over at the HABS-HAER site at the Library of Congress? Crikey! And I've never heard time described as 'stunning' before. Craftsman kits & brass locomotives, yes. Lengthy programming time, no.

But you don't have to dissect the editor's phrasing to get the drift...a generally poor attitude about what it seems many consider a very useful tool. That's okay...we understand. Just means you don't care enough to offer what internet capable modelers want. :?

no longer quite as angry, now just deeply disappointed,

Galen

Galen, check out the message board over at MRH. Joe is meeting with the Kalmbach people tomorrow, and is planning an announcement sometime tomorrow evening.

I just checked on the MRH web site and Joe Fugate has posted that the NMRA is interested in getting the index and making it available. The problem facing them if Kalmbach donates it, is it is written in obsolete MS Dos. Joe is looking for volunteers who are capable of taking MS Dos and reverse engineering it into a modern format. If anyone on this site is able to help contact Joe at Model Railroad Hobbyist.