The article states in the 2nd paragraph that the author's requisites for the "method" begin with: -Practically zero learning curve -No switch lists or car cards...eliminating some more common solutions. The "Post-It" brand "Flags" fulfill his needs, at his price point ($3.50/100, about enough to do 25 cars), but replacement frequency isn't mentioned (sticky ain't forever). Models in his illustration are nicely painted, sturdy cars (molded-on ladders, etc.), but this method requires no stock modification (another qualification of his). Mr. Bruening has found a method that allows HIM to operate his railroad in a rewarding fashion, and (whether "realistic" or not in others' judgement) participate in a way he might not have without this scheme. The method is not new, just the materials, and Len's clever arrangement of the flags for routing info. I see no reason to belittle his attempts to "Have Fun" with his trains, because one's sense of "realism" is not maintained here. Bob C.

Bob C Wrote:I see no reason to belittle his attempts to "Have Fun" with his trains, because one's sense of "realism" is not maintained here. Bob C.

I don't think anyone is trying to belittle the "sticky flag" method or the originator. This is simply a discussion of the relative merits and demerits of the method compared to other methods. And it is all just opinion - some people like waybills and car cards - some like switchlists - some like thumb tacks - some will like the sticky flags. If a person states that he dislikes a particular method and gives reasons, it shouldn't be construed as "belittling" that method. It is good discussion so each of us can be armed with knowledge as we contemplate the methods we will end up using.

O.K. ... I'm feeling more tolerant now.

BUT ... I still can't get past doing all this work to make a box car or tanker look as close to the prototype as you can (at least up to the skill level you have developed to this point in your model building "career") only to plop some Regimental Flag-sized Post-It on top (that you had to write very small on or put a series of colored dots on, that your operators will need a key to decipher - a key that you will have to generate copies of) when if you fill out a set of pre-printed car cards and pockets once, you're done! And thereafter you add car cards as your fleet of rolling stock grows. And no gum residue to attract extra dust which will not merely blow off as it is stuck to the gum residue.

To each his own, as was said earlier ... I choose to chase realism in appearance and Car Cards in their little pockets will work for me. You may like dice or dradles or playing cards or maybe even a drum full of BINGO numbered balls, that's up to you.
Hey! If it floats your boat get off the sand bar and go sailing!

steinjr Wrote:

RobertInOntario Wrote:My layout is also quite small so a simple will probably work best.

Something simple probably will work just fine. One can always make things more complicated later if it gets boring.

Btw - I usually have a reasonably good memory for track plans, but can't recall how your layout looks (if I have seen it). I had a quick look around using the forum search function, but couldn't find it. Do you an overview diagram or photo of your layout somewhere in these forums or on some other web page?

Smile,
Stein, who still hasn't gotten my butt in gear and soldering feeders to those last few tracks after the summer vacation
Oh well, back to emptying out a storage room to make it a new laundry room - maybe I can make a _small_ hole in the wall and get a couple of staging shelves in there eventually .... :-)

Stein,

I think I did have some pics on here but it's changed since then. I'll try to post an overview photo either tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks,
Rob

What I might do, is use the sticky/post-it note method until I get the hang of this ... and then hopefully progress onto switch lists and weigh bills, etc.

At least, using the very visual coloured post-it note method should get me started.

Rob

OK, here is an overview shot of my layout.

It is only approx. 5.5 ft. long by 3 ft. wide! Due to space constraints at the moment, I'm pretty much limited to small layouts. There are two storage siding on the far left (my version of a fiddle yard!) and two loops of track. Inside the inner loop are two larger sidings with a small one as well (only room for a switcher there or two small freight cars).

I also realize that I've cluttered up the layout with too many locos and rolling stock, which I need to remove from the layout (hence my "storage" thread <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3129">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3129</a><!-- l -->).

This layout is also a British 00 (similar to HO) layout and is a 1950s/'60s steam era layout set in Wellow, Somerset, England.

Thanks again,
Rob

[attachment=5335]

RobertInOntario Wrote:OK, here is an overview shot of my layout.

It is only approx. 5.5 ft. long by 3 ft. wide!

Mmm - a nice looking (and compact) layout, but maybe not your typical "switching industries" type of layout.

You do have a passenger station and a small yard. But do you have any rail served industries on that layout? Somewhere where you would want to set out or pick up cars to be loaded or unloaded?

Stein, just curious

steinjr Wrote:

RobertInOntario Wrote:OK, here is an overview shot of my layout.

It is only approx. 5.5 ft. long by 3 ft. wide!

Mmm - a nice looking (and compact) layout, but maybe not your typical "switching industries" type of layout.

You do have a passenger station and a small yard. But do you have any rail served industries on that layout? Somewhere where you would want to set out or pick up cars to be loaded or unloaded?

Stein, just curious

Thanks, Stein. Well, only the front half to 2/3's of the layout is finished so I could try to create & add some industries at the small yard. Otherwise, I admit that the layout mainly works as a passenger layout but I do occasionally run freight trains through. I was thinking that maybe I could start a freight train out from the "fiddle yard" and deliver various cars to the different sidings in the middle of the layout.

I also have a small shelf switching layout but that's a side project that I occasionally work on. I was thinking of re-laying its track. It's bascially an "Inglenook" shunting layout -- maybe I could use apply these shunting guidelines to that?

Rob

Gentlemen..I think I was mis-read. I was, in no way, shape or form, trying to "belittle" anyone in this forum. I was simply responding to a forum post about "OPERATIONS AND SHUNTING" because I feel confident that I can provide INFORMATION to this modeler that he may find useful. THAT"S ALL! I am NOT implying that ANYONE'S ideas are "second rate" or foolish. We ALL have something to learn from model railroading. That's why I enjoy this forum. Different ideas about 1 subject shows us that there is no 1 way to do something. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about being happy with what you are doing. In this case, model railroading makes us all happy. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Operations is what I "fancy" about a model railroad because I prefer a "realistic approach" to what I do. Some enjoy kitbashing, while others prefer scenery. You see, we each have a different "forte" in this hobby. Being a former railroader helped me come up with a real life "twist" on model railroading. I thought that some would find these "twists" amusing or even useful in their "operations" of a model railroad. I am simply providing details of a "theory" that I devised - nothing more - nothing less. If you like the ideas I had - great! If not - that's fine too. But to state that I am trying to belittle someone, that's when I have to say ENOUGH.

In the end, I just responded to a to a forum post to provide some information I THOUGHT would be helpful. If I offended or belittled anyone, it was not done on purpose. I try to provide a light-hearted or amusing comment to all my posts to show that I am not a "rivet counter". I guess some may not have see it that way. Oh well, as the old saying goes: You can't please all of the people all of the time..........but it's model railroading, after all.

My good friend FedEx13 ...

Calm down ... take a deep breath ... and another ... and ...

Now ... I'm sure that no one is actually labeling you as a "Raving Belittler!" And if you take it that way, I would suggest you remove your feelings from your shirt sleeve and put them back in your pocket.

Early in my tenure here (just as you are currently early in your tenure here at Big Blue,) I allowed myself to react adversely and get my Fruit-of-the-Looms in a bunch over something that really was inconsequential in the overall scheme of things. I was figuratively "called over to the side" by a couple of "senior residents" here and PM'ed about taking a "lighten-up" pill. I was wrong to make my point the way I did and I have admitted it, and make every attempt to remind myself of that promise each time I am tempted to "jump" on some point or someone.

Those who frequent this forum span the gamut of today's model railroaders: young, middle-aged, seasoned senior citizens; those with a wealth of experience and those just starting out; those with basement-sized rail empires, those with a sheet of plywood with an oval (or double oval) on it and maybe a siding or two and those with an unscenicked "John Allen Timesaver;" to those, like myself, who have been away from the hobby for some time (a year -- twenty years) and we all get along together and help each other because we all love this hobby of model railroading. We use no foul language and we have no tolerance for so-called "flaming," and we discourage the belittling of others. We encourage everyone, even those whose philosophy towards this great hobby we don't necessary agree with! We still encourage them to pursue what makes them happy. That is the beauty of this forum ... we are the next thing to family here.

So calm down, take a deep breath and when you poise your fingers above the keyboard to type a post, remember that this is a form of communication much more forgiving than speaking face to face! In speaking, if you don't think before you open your mouth, the words are out there and you cannot take them back, even if they are unintentionally hurtful. But here, you have the luxury to type those words out, proof read them for spelling, grammer and yes ... content. You can "preview" what you've typed and edit it as many times as you wish, to make sure you have said that which you wished to say, and nothing that is unintended.

I do it every time I post now.

Maybe you should, too.

Amen, now if only others would follow your advice

It's just hard to reach into the computer and say "hey, that's not what I meant". It's just that when your read the wrong way, it's worse than not being read at all.

For the record, the shorts never got "knotted up", maybe 10 years ago, but not now.

Now everyone, let's get back to modeling....Can I get up from the "time-out" chair now?

steinjr Wrote:

RobertInOntario Wrote:OK, here is an overview shot of my layout.

Mmm - a nice looking (and compact) layout, but maybe not your typical "switching industries" type of layout.

You do have a passenger station and a small yard. But do you have any rail served industries on that layout? Somewhere where you would want to set out or pick up cars to be loaded or unloaded?

Stein, just curious

Thanks, Stein. Well, only the front half to 2/3's of the layout is finished so I could try to create & add some industries at the small yard. Otherwise, I admit that the layout mainly works as a passenger layout but I do occasionally run freight trains through. I was thinking that maybe I could start a freight train out from the "fiddle yard" and deliver various cars to the different sidings in the middle of the layout.

I also have a small shelf switching layout but that's a side project that I occasionally work on. I was thinking of re-laying its track. It's bascially an "Inglenook" shunting layout -- maybe I could use apply these shunting guidelines to that?

Mmmm. You certainly can do fairly realistic car shunting/switching on an inglenook. Or maybe on a super-nook (an oversize inglenook). Using whichever method your prefer, but I suspect that a hand written switch list probably would be the easiest way that also had a realistic flavor here - like on this web page: http://oscalewcor.blogspot.com/2010/02/t...tions.html

But what kind of operations would suit best for your main layout?

For one thing - you do not really need (in my opinion) a simplified system to keep track of what freight cars should go where. You will have very few destinations, and won't be moving a lot of cars.

Based on a quick look at your layout, I would say that with your layout I think my main focus would have been on handling passenger trains at a junction town depot/station, not local freight trains.

Maybe having a train arrive at the depot, switch engines, maybe take off a sleeper that will go onto a connecting train, adding an express mail car, and then wait for another arriving train that will have another coach that needs to go on with our train. I.e centering the action around the depot/station, using the yard as a coach yard for passenger cars.

With the freight train occasionally making an appearance, switching out some cars from the track on the left side of the layout (on the loop side of the little forest), and then going on to pick up some cars from the yard before backing out of the layout back onto one of the staging tracks.

Anyone else have some ideas about possible overall operations plans for Robert ?

Smile,
Stein

FedEx13 Wrote:... Now everyone, let's get back to modeling....Can I get up from the "time-out" chair now?

Yes, young man, you may now get up from the chair. Just look at what you write and make sure that it will be taken the way you meant it to be taken.

FedEx13 Wrote:Gentlemen...(Gary S.), I think you are misunderstanding me....

...But to state that I am trying to belittle someone, that's when I have to say ENOUGH.

FedEx13, please reread what I wrote and then maybe you will consider using the edit function to remove my name from your post? The way I read it, I was defending you. :|

Gary S Wrote:I don't think anyone is trying to belittle the "sticky flag" method or the originator. This is simply a discussion of the relative merits and demerits of the method compared to other methods. And it is all just opinion - some people like waybills and car cards - some like switchlists - some like thumb tacks - some will like the sticky flags. If a person states that he dislikes a particular method and gives reasons, it shouldn't be construed as "belittling" that method. It is good discussion so each of us can be armed with knowledge as we contemplate the methods we will end up using.

I'm sorry Gary, I need to correct the way that was directed. I jumped the gun on that one and fired it in the wrong direction. I'm cooled down now and won't let trivial matters such as these get to me again.

Sorry sir....I owe you a cold one...so here's to you The correction has been made. Thanks for being open minded.