I have a question or two about ice bunker reefers and could use some insight.
Where would this type of reefer be iced prior to being returned to a shipper?
The reason I ask is this-on my switching layout I have a clean out track and have been toying with the idea of adding an icing platform so that once the reefer has been cleaned it could then be re-iced.

In the picture it would go inbetween the cleanout track and the one in front of it. I already have the ice making structure started.It is being made from a cut down mechanical reefer that I got from e-paw,(photos to follow). All I would need to do is build a platform the length of the cleanout track.
I would appreciate any insight,thoughts,pros and cons.
Thanks in advance-
Bob

I expect that refers would be iced by the railroad before being delivered and far enough in advance that they could be cooled before loading. Unless the shipper was big enough to have their own loading plant.
Not sure about the cleanout. Is this for water or the debris from the load? My inclination would be to cleanout at the destination.

Thanks for the reply.I read an article in an old issue of MR and sometimes a shipper wanted a car cleaned out before it was returned.

A dirty car is a valid reason for a shipper to reject it for loading. You wouldn't believe some of the gondolas we got in to load. Some were half full of debris.
Charlie

The shipper will request the car and at that time will state their particular requirements as to car icing. Not all shipments moving in reefers require cooling, either. In a series on PFE reefers in RMC, it was noted that in 1947, 20% of all shipments were of canned goods. Many ice reefers featured "stage icing", which consisted mainly of drop-down grates within the ice bunkers, allowing a partial charge of ice. Many cars also had "convertible bunkers", which could be folded against the interior ends of the car, allowing a greater cubic capacity for lading that required no cooling.
I cold weather, charcoal heaters were often placed in the ice bunkers (without the ice, of course ) to keep the lading from freezing.
Some cargo (meat and fish) required temperatures colder than could be obtained with ice alone, so salt would be mixed with the ice to lower its freezing point - the shipper usually specified the ratio.
Some lading, such as fresh fish, might be "top iced", with crushed ice applied directly atop it - this was usually done at point of loading.
For fairly short trips of some perishable commodities, such as fruit and vegetables, the reefer could be operated as a ventilator car, with the bunker hatches propped open but no ice in the bunkers.

Wayne

I recall hearing about Westbound iced refers on the Long Island railroad, that, if the reefer hatches were open, potatoes. If the reefer hatches were closed, cauliflower. Eastbound reefers could be empties, or produce to market
There were icing plants "along the route" of long distance perishables shipping. There were also drain pipes in all the ice bunkers to allow melt water out. If memory serves me well, they were located at the sides, just in from the ends.

In researching my "prototype" railroad, the narrow gauge Morenci Southern in Arizona, I have learned that the terminal town of Morenci had an ice house next to the tracks, and I have seen photos of refrigerator cars in the Morenci Yard, circa about 1910. I don't know the specifics of how it all worked, but Morenci was basically a company owned mining town, and the railroad was basically a property of one of the mining companies. In other words, the mining company was responsible for the town and the well being of the mine workers that lived there. Piecing things together, I assume the reefer cars were loaded with ice in Morenci, taken downhill the 20 or so miles to the standard gauge interchange, where they awaited transfer of perishables from standard gauge reefers. I wouldn't normally think such a short journey would require iced reefers, but this is hot Arizona and I do know there was an ice plant next to the tracks for some reason.

My example is a little bit different because it was not the shipper of the perishables that was responsible for making sure things were kept cool, but instead the recipient. But, it serves as an example that things could have been handled differently depending on what the circumstances were. In my case, the dominant circumstance was the standard gauge-narrow gauge interchange. But I could see the type of perishable being shipped, the geographic location of the terminals, or the location of the ice plant all being circumstances that controlled the hows and whens of when a reefer was iced.

To further what Dr. Wayne has said,

The following photo is by William Henry Jackson and taken in Approximately 1884. It is just below the former town of Woodstock which was wiped out in an avalanche on March 10, 1884.
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The first two cars are the amongst the most famous reefer cars of all time (certainly the most famous that didn't belong to the major operators), Tiffany reefers. The lettering reads: "Tiffany Summer & Winter". Since the road that used them had three crossing of the Continental Divide and was prone to avalanches/snow slides, they were more valuable in the winter to prevent freezing.

In the days of ice reefers, I wouldn't be surprised if icing didn't occur at the point of loading. Most reefers, stock cars, and tank cars of those days were privately owned. In the case of the South Park/C&S, all icing was done at Denver...regardless as to where the cars were being loaded or unloading.

Michael

Thanks again for the replies.I appreciate it.
I think a small icing facility makes sense to me and as I already have one multi purpose track,what's one more?
Anyway,I can always rip it out if it is not working for me. Bob

Sumpter250 Wrote:There were also drain pipes in all the ice bunkers to allow melt water out. If memory serves me well, they were located at the sides, just in from the ends.

Yup. In the picture below, the drain chutes are visible above the outboard journal boxes of both trucks, between the sill steps and the car's body bolsters:


In 1939, the CNR built some overhead ice bunker cars like the one shown below:


They were equipped with underslung charcoal heaters (the box below the car) for winter shipments of temperature-sensitive lading, and liquidometers (the black and white gadget to the left of the door) which read the car's internal temperature at both floor-level and immediately beneath the overhead brine tanks. This eliminated the guesswork about whether a car needed re-icing or if the heater needed to be used in cold weather. To facilitate icing, there were eight hatches in the roof, and, of course, no end bunkers (which allowed for more payload):


As for car icing, I seem to recall a photo of a truck built for this purpose, utilising a raiseable bed with the necessary equipment.

Kevin, in addition to providing ice for reefers, that ice house may have also be the main supply for domesticate and commercial ice - iceboxes in homes lasted surprisingly late where electricity was scarce, unavailable, or unreliable.

Wayne

doctorwayne Wrote:Kevin, in addition to providing ice for reefers, that ice house may have also be the main supply for domesticate and commercial ice - iceboxes in homes lasted surprisingly late where electricity was scarce, unavailable, or unreliable.

Wayne

Even at my tender age I remember the Ice man. We got a new Crosley Shelve-a-Door in 1947 when we moved to our new house. I was 4 years old.
My mother passed the fridge down to me when we got married and set up house in 1963 and we used it for years. It may have gone to one of our kids when they left home, I can't remember for sure, but I'll guarantee it was still working when we passed it along.
Charlie

Charlie: was the Crosley an ice-box or one of those new-fangled mechanical things?
Through the '50s we had neighbours with an ice box. Our apartment building had been "modernized" and there was a big compressor in the basement with pipes coming up to all the refrigerators. In the later '50s we replaced it with a self-contained unit. (or maybe the landlord did)

The Crosley was a "mechanical refer .
Charlie

The summer cottage on Noyac Bay, on Eastern Long Island had an ice box for years. I still remember the ice man carrying those large blocks of ice down the 26 old wood stairs, from the parking area just off the road about 15 feet above the roof level. The first refrigerator we had there was one of those with the coil on top.