One of the members of the modular club here in So Cal is primarily a Santa Fe modeler, but he started doing some Penn Central because he wanted to make a model of a locomotive that the Santa Fe never had. The result is that he is doing as much Penn Central as he is Santa Fe. Anyway, at the meeting last night he had an F7 A&B set. It was originally in D&RGW orange & silver passenger scheme. He had left the paint, removed the D&RGW markings and installed the PC "mating worms" logo and new Penn Central numbers. I asked him about it and he said that the PC had bought the units second hand from the D&RGW and found the D&RGW units to be in better shape than the existing Penn Central units so they removed the DRGW markings and put PC markings on over the original D&RGW paint. I'd never heard of them, but it was an interesting model set. I'm sorry, I didn't have a camera with me.

Yes Russ, the PC bought a small group of F units, I think 4 A units and 4 B units, from the Rio Grande for trade in credit on new locomotives. Finding 4 of them to be in at least as good of condition as their own units, the kept them and put them in service, and traded in the other 4.

Here are a couple on a freight...
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc754_712_1648dr.jpg

Beat me to it Dave! That site is on my list of favorites. Here is view of a couple more of the former D&RGW units with the mating worms before they were painted black. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/70554671">http://www.pbase.com/espeef5/image/70554671</a><!-- m -->

Ralph

Being a Santa Fe modeler from the West coast, this was all new to me. Seems like a good excuse to put another paint scheme on a PC layout as if they didn't have enough variety as it was!

And one more...
PC-D&RGW 764
At Lynn, Indiana. Southbound on the ex-PRR and crossing the P&E in late summer, 1970
Photo by Chuck Tuttle.

And those units was the best looking PC locomotives.

Interesting that the trade-in value was greater than what the D&RGW was selling them for. That makes me wonder why the Rio Grande did not trade them in themselves. Does anyone know how long they remained on the PC roster? I was under the impression that F-units were mostly gone by the early 1970s. I can only remember seeing one F-unit in regular service, and that was somewhere in Mississippi or Louisiana in the mid-1980s (and even then I am not certain it had not been converted into some kind of road slug).

Can't vouch for these specific units, but remember running PC "covered wagons" both as lead units and "in-consist" in mainline service Altoona to Pittsburgh (Conway Yd.) in '77, maybe '78. Didn't have the brains to check the cab card for their origin. Bob C.

Conrail retired the last F units in '79. Can't vouch for these units specifically, but they were painted black before CR anyway.

The rule requiring switching steps on locomotives led to the F's rapid demise. Here is part of the rule. I don't doubt they would have lasted as long as the GP's if this wasn't ruled. Most of them had been relegated to use on locals. Some remained in helper service until they were retired.
I don't think any former PRR "F" units made it to Conrail

49 CFR 231.30 - Locomotives used in switching service.

" © Switching step(1) Number. Each locomotive used in switching service must have four (4) switching steps. (See Plate A) (2) Dimensions. Each such switching step must have (i) On locomotives built after March 31, 1977, a minimum width of twenty-four (24) inches and a minimum depth of twelve (12) inches, except when necessary to accommodate the turning arc of a six-wheel truck and its appurtenances, the inside edge of the switching step shall have a minimum width of seventeen (17) inches (See Plate B); (ii) On locomotives built prior to April 1, 1977, a minimum width of eighteen (18) inches, and a minimum depth of eight (8) inches; (iii) A backstop, solid or perforated, with minimum height of backstop of six (6) inches above the safety tread surface; and (iv) A height of not more than nineteen (19) inches, preferably fifteen (15) inches, measured from top of rail to the safety tread surface.

It probably has nothing to do with the rule, since Santa Fe did their Cf-7 rebuilding program in the early 1970's, but they probably discovered the need for the steps earlier when they first retired the F-7's from road service to do switching.

Quote:I was under the impression that F-units were mostly gone by the early 1970s.

SP and UP retired their last around 1972, but many railroads had Fs past then. CB&Q had retired all Fs by the BN merger, but GN and NP contributed many, some of which lasted to 1982. Can't remember when Frisco retired their last, but none of theirs made it to BN. Santa Fe's CF7 program ran to 1978. WP's last Fs, IIRC, were retired with the UP merger in 1982. MP's were gone by then. MKT's survived to the late 70s, except one rebuilt unit that made it to the UP merger in 1989. N&W's ex-Wabash Fs and ICG's ex-GM&O Fs survived to the late 1970s. I've seen pictures of B&O Fs as late as 1975 and WM to at least 1978, though none received Chessie paint. Can't remember for C&O. Except their business train, I don't recall Fs in Family Lines or Seaboard paint, so maybe those went early. I want to say 1981 for Clinchfield, though. CNW Fs lasted to 1985, KCS and Alaska to 1986. A number of passenger (mainly commuter) and smaller railroads ran them longer.
In Canada, mass retirement of Fs came later. CN and CP both contributed Fs to VIA in 1978. The Fs remaining in freight service on those railroads lasted to 1983 on CP and 1989 on CN (though I've seen very few photos of CN Fs in service after 1986; they appear to have been stored most of the time after about 1985). VIA's unrebuilt Fs lasted into the 90s, and some rebuilt units to 2002. Ontario Northland's last few rebuilds survived to 2004.

If I am remembering correctly the Fp9's used on the Verde Canyon Railway are ex-Cn units and are still in service on the Verde.

Puddlejumper Wrote:Conrail retired the last F units in '79. Can't vouch for these units specifically, but they were painted black before CR anyway.

Technically, the FL-9s ran under Conrail until 1983, where they went to the MTA (and later Amtrak).

Charlie B Wrote:I don't think any former PRR "F" units made it to Conrail

Only two PRR F-units made it, Conrail 1651 and 1652. These started out life as PRR 9732A and 9801A respectively. From there, it was PRR/PC 1482 and 1501, then it went to Conrail. I don't know how long those units lasted, but obviously didn't reach past 1979.

Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:

Puddlejumper Wrote:Conrail retired the last F units in '79. Can't vouch for these units specifically, but they were painted black before CR anyway.

Technically, the FL-9s ran under Conrail until 1983, where they went to the MTA (and later Amtrak).

You are indeed correct, and they wore a nice variation of the CR scheme with a yellow nose which faded to a blue with white looking nose. Another oddball scheme for me to model.