Here's a question for our experts who have worked or are working for railroads:
What happens to abandoned rolling stock left on a right of way?
Along the UP line from the Royal Gorge northwest towards Buena Vista and Leadville are probably around two hundred long-abandoned ore cars, sitting on the rails and rusting into oblivion. My understanding is that rolling stock like this is either stored somewhere and maintained, or scrapped. What happens if there is a need to clear the line and the cars are no longer fit to be moved?
If blocking the line to prevent improper usage by the Royal Gorge Railroad was the objective, I can think of a lot of cheaper and more efficient ways to do that. Meanwhile, the rust, petroleum product run-off and other contaminants constantly leach into the Arkansas River.
If the right of way is still owned by the railroad, I don't think they have to do anything unless some regulation requires they be removed because they are a public hazard. If they can't roll, they will be cut up and scrapped on site. The D&RGW left a few narrow gauge cars behind on sidings as they abandoned their routes. I know the Durango and Silverton scenic railroad has mostly rotten cars left on sidings in Silverton and elsewhere that they inherited from D&RGW days.
If the line is no longer in use, the railway's considerations will be whether the salvage/scrap value is more than the cost of retrieving it. The next thought will be liability -- how expensive if some idiot climbs around on the cars and injures himself?
It's possible that they may chase after the scrap when they have a downturn in business and a surplus labour situation.
nachoman Wrote:If the right of way is still owned by the railroad, I don't think they have to do anything unless some regulation requires they be removed because they are a public hazard. If they can't roll, they will be cut up and scrapped on site. The D&RGW left a few narrow gauge cars behind on sidings as they abandoned their routes. I know the Durango and Silverton scenic railroad has mostly rotten cars left on sidings in Silverton and elsewhere that they inherited from D&RGW days.
That makes sense, and I believe UP does retain the trackage, but it seems to be more expensive to break stuff up on site as opposed to a properly organized salvage yard. From what I recall from the Boneyard series on re-cycling railroad cars, the equipment needed is very expensive and highly specialized. Additionally, that stretch is single tacked, making it logistically more awkward to salvage the cars that way.
BR60103 Wrote:If the line is no longer in use, the railway's considerations will be whether the salvage/scrap value is more than the cost of retrieving it. The next thought will be liability -- how expensive if some idiot climbs around on the cars and injures himself?
It's possible that they may chase after the scrap when they have a downturn in business and a surplus labour situation.
It's certainly an odd situation. Temporarily unused cars are often stored in my area, on the tracks that still exist in Rockvale, the spur line to the old Cotter plant, in the small Florance yard and so forth, but these are constantly rotated in and out of usage as one would expect based on demand. The cars left abandoned on the UP line are no longer fit for service, for the most part.
Puzzling, as railroads around here are usually a lot more parsimonious.
It is possible that the company has lost them. I mean the higher ups, decision makers. I know from my trucking years as a yard jockey at a Chrysler plant that trucking companies some times leave trailers for years. Then someone in the plant sees it and uses it for a storage trailer. I remember one time a management person had a trailer scrapped out and the carrier came looking for it. Now it had been there for several years. So it is possible that no one knows they are there.
Lester Perry Wrote:It is possible that the company has lost them. I mean the higher ups, decision makers. I know from my trucking years as a yard jockey at a Chrysler plant that trucking companies some times leave trailers for years. Then someone in the plant sees it and uses it for a storage trailer. I remember one time a management person had a trailer scrapped out and the carrier came looking for it. Now it had been there for several years. So it is possible that no one knows they are there.
In plain sight, alongside a major highway?
Is it really abandoned or just long term storage? The UP has never been known for keeping their equipment looking spiffy.
Modelers note: UP equipment needs three colors for weathering, rust, dust and grimey black.
Since the economic downturn there a lot of unused cars of all types filling sidings and branchlines here in Montana.
I have noticed that other states have their share too. South of Olympia, WA along Interstate 5 there are several miles of container cars sitting idle, slowly gathering rust. Jim K.
Jim From MT Wrote:Is it really abandoned or just long term storage? The UP has never been known for keeping their equipment looking spiffy.
Modelers note: UP equipment needs three colors for weathering, rust, dust and grimey black.
Since the economic downturn there a lot of unused cars of all types filling sidings and branchlines here in Montana.
I have noticed that other states have their share too. South of Olympia, WA along Interstate 5 there are several miles of container cars sitting idle, slowly gathering rust. Jim K.
Severely rusted, including trucks, wheels, couplers and all. Some of them I could probably know a hole in with a hammer against the sides. These cars have been left in the same place in the severe Colorado weather for many years, probably well over a decade.
All in all, I would have to say abandoned.
I think it is more likely that they are lost. All it takes is one misplaced keystroke on a computer to "lose" a car or an entire cut of cars. It sounds like the track you are referencing is not used much. Even if trains are regularly running past this abandoned cut of cars, are the train crews likely to go to the trouble of trying to find out why the cars are there; or more likely, they will just take the attitude that "It's not my job." If someone on a train crew does report those cars to their supervisor, what is the likely hood of the supervisor actually starting an investigation? A friend of mine is a manager for a company here in So Cal that makes pvc and abs pipe. They used to use the U.P. to ship some of the chemicals used in making the plastic from Texas. Actually I think they used S.P., but the contract was taken over by the U.P. with the merger. They had three chemical tank cars that never showed up. They had to shut down the plant for a week or so due to the lack of resources to make their product. They called U.P. to find out what happened and U.P. could not find the cars. The company immediately switched to BNSF for replacement cars and for all future shipments. A few weeks later, the U.P. found the cars "buried" in a yard in Chicago! How do cars being shipped from Houston to Los Angeles end up in Chicago? The company finally received the product, but they have not used U.P. for anything in the last 10 years!
I have to agree with Russ. I have posted on here about lost cars before. One was a KCS boxcar on the NEC outside of Washington D.C. The crews knew it was there, the local crew even had to move it a few times when it was in their way. No record of it in CR, NS, CSX, or Amtrak computers. It wasn't until a railfan buddy of mine called KCS marketing dept. that the car was recovered. Another instance, after the CSX/NS split of Conrail, CSX lost a cut of around 30 hoppers. They were lost for some time, eventually CSX placed a paid advertisement in Railway Age and distributed an internal employee memo offering a reward to anyone knowing the whereabouts of the cars. They were located... for some reason I want to say in Queensgate Yard, but not positive.
So, you can see it happens often. If the cars were lost for an extended period it is likely they will not be moved even when found, probably scrapped in place. Where exactly are we talking, I would like to look on Google Earth.
MountainMan Wrote:Severely rusted, including trucks, wheels, couplers and all. Some of them I could probably know a hole in with a hammer against the sides. These cars have been left in the same place in the severe Colorado weather for many years, probably well over a decade.
All in all, I would have to say abandoned.
Last summer when we were rafting down that stretch of the Arkansas R, I commented to our guide about the cars. She was local to the area. She said that the UP had had to meet specific requirements from the state to store them there long term. The cuts could only be so long between breaks in the car cuts to allow wildlife access to the river on the north bank (where the cars are). And the UP had not been allowed to store them at key scenic locations for the benefit of the rafting companies and the views from the water. Her answers seem more plausible than most here.
That said, the visual condition of the trucks and journals makes me wonder if they will ever be moved again. Although, in speaking to employees of the Royal Gorge excursion trains, they said they could move them in fairly short order if UP ever requests.
just my experiences
Fred W
there are a lot of spline cars stored near here and they rust up fast but if they (assuming the oar cars have roller brearing trucks) can be mover quickely if need to be , so being stored on a siding doesn't mean there abandoned some of the spline cars here have been sitting for several years rr is just wating for the time they will be needed again, after all they don't cost the rr nothing sitting.
jim
pgandw Wrote:MountainMan Wrote:Severely rusted, including trucks, wheels, couplers and all. Some of them I could probably know a hole in with a hammer against the sides. These cars have been left in the same place in the severe Colorado weather for many years, probably well over a decade.
All in all, I would have to say abandoned.
Last summer when we were rafting down that stretch of the Arkansas R, I commented to our guide about the cars. She was local to the area. She said that the UP had had to meet specific requirements from the state to store them there long term. The cuts could only be so long between breaks in the car cuts to allow wildlife access to the river on the north bank (where the cars are). And the UP had not been allowed to store them at key scenic locations for the benefit of the rafting companies and the views from the water. Her answers seem more plausible than most here.
That said, the visual condition of the trucks and journals makes me wonder if they will ever be moved again. Although, in speaking to employees of the Royal Gorge excursion trains, they said they could move them in fairly short order if UP ever requests.
just my experiences
Fred W
Interesting, since the Royal Gorge Line does not have any trackage rights in that region and is not financially tied to UP. The Royal Gorge Line is limited to operations inside the gorge itself, and can go no farther than a mile or so past the Royal Gorge Bridge before reversing back to the terminal. UP would have to negotiate passage of that stretch between CAnon City and the reversing poibnt, now owned by RGR, in order to retrieve those cars, or approach from Leadville by way of Buena Vista, if that's still possible.
We're not talking about a "few lost cars" here; we are talking about a
lot of abandoned cars on a mainline totally controlled by UP.
Meanwhile, I sent a letter simultaneously to the Governor, the head of UP and the major Denver news stations expressing my concern as a citizen for the abandonment of UP rolling stock and issues of environmental and visual pollution. We'll see what happens.