I know, this WAY off the theme of the site, but I need input.
My truck has 111000 on the odometer. It is a full size GMC. I commute 150 miles a day (round trip) to work. Between nickel and dime repairs, and gas costs/mileage, I know it is time for it to go.
I have a line on a sweetheart of a deal on a 2011 Nissan Versa (Not the base model either). It has 2744 miles on the odometer, which by FTC regs, it can be sold as new. However, they are offering it as a used car with a price tag nearly 6k under NIDA and KBB value. The economy ratings are great.
The issue is this, I was raised on the UAW. My Dad retired from GM, my grand father retired from GM, my paternal grand father died before he could retire from GM. GM has no loyalty left to the USA. They took the bailout money, then bailed out.

Perhaps someone can offer another perspective?


Matt

Well, if you want to stick with 'American', and that is in quotes because some of the more popular Japanese cars are built more by American workers than some of the cars of the Big 3 (Versa though is not one of them), the consider Ford. Unlike GM and Chrysler, they seem to have realized BEFORE it was too late that loyalty only goes so far, people do nto want to drive junk just to say they are buying American.
Or the heck with it, get a good car that gets great mileage and enjoy the savings. We've been pushed where we are due to idiotic government regualtion that made the SUV the most profitable type of vehicle coupled with a huge ma,rketign campaign to make us ethink bigger is ALWAYS better - now the US automakers have to reverse all their previous rhetoric and try to convince peopel that smaller more efficient cars are better. Something most reasonign people figured out on their own, but still the masses bought bigger and bigger, more and more guzzlign SUVs because it was the 'in' thing to do. Unless you are hauling a ton of stuff around on a farm, the only thing I think SUV stands for is Stupid Useless Vehichle. Giant, poor gas mileage, poor handling, and 99% of them never go off road, except when the nut behind the wheel has been so lulled into believing AWD means invincible and runs off the side of a snowy road and down an embankment. We've gotten people so paranoid about driving on anythign but a clear day that they think they MUST have AWD. It's within my driving lifetime when FWD was a rarity and 4WD/AWD was found pretty much only on Jeeps - we still managed to get around just fine with RWD. Of course we used to have things called snow tires for use in the winter in areas where it snowed, not today's crop of so-called 'all season' tires which are mediocre in all seasons at best, not excelling at any one thing. Amazing how nowdays it's incredible to have a hybrid car that gets 50mpg - 30 years ago we had cars that could do that on regular gas. Progress? Really?
Ok, enough ranting, I have plenty more but I'll stop here. Bottom line, get the car that fits your needs, not the one that you've been 'conditioned' to get.

--Randy

I agree with Randy. Do what you need to do.
I have been a Ford man all my life, worked for 3 different dealerships, and also handled Dodges at 2 of them. I will never own a Chrysler product, I saw too much while at the dual dealerships.
As I said, I'm a Ford person, but I keep them forever. I have a 94 F150 with 80K miles that has suffered more from not being driven then normal use would have done to it.
We bought a new Focus in 2006 and it is without a doubt the best car Ford has ever built as far as I'm concerned. I got a 2.0 engine with a 5 Speed manual and it is really a fast car. I got 44 MPG going to Chicago in 2006 on the turnpike, although 38 on a trip is more normal. I do 33 around town, but I only drive around 400 miles a month now. I did not like the original tires, and had them replaced at 26,000, and I forget what brand they were.
It's a 4 door, and lots of fun to drive, and rides very well. No problems at all so far, and it just turned 36,000 miles.
I would say try all the brands out first because they have all changed a lot over the last few years, American cars got better, some foreign makes got worse.
Charlie

Randy's hit the nail squarely on the head. Brand loyalty, in an obtuse-sort of way, is what lead to the years of mediocre (or worse) stuff coming out of North American automakers' plants. Three of my first four cars were Chevs, one pretty good (usually, your first car is remembered as good) , one that could have been great (but GM didn't have the foresight to make it so) and one that seemed to impress a lot of people - I was one of them, but not for long.
The fourth one was a Kharmann Ghia, a fun car to drive but, after the engine blew, not one that left me too impressed. My old man, who re-built the engine so I could get rid of it, call it "Hitler's Revenge", a moniker also used on a Beetle owned by my wife. In all honesty, though, hers was very reliable, although a little coolish in the winter.
I, always loyal to Chevy, went to look at the then-new Vega. It seemed pretty nice to me at the time (shows you what I knew) but, was a little pricey and I decided to shop around a bit. I ended up at a Datsun dealer (mostly to look at the new 240-Z) but ended up driving away in a new Datsun 1200. It had, standard, all of the features which I wanted on the Vega (all offered as options) and cost over $1200.00 less. The only option offered was an AM radio, which the dealer threw in at half price.
I put almost 400,000 miles on that car over the 17 years that I owned it and it remains the best $2200.00 dollars that I've ever spent. A fun car to drive, too, and gave me 43 mpg while I drove the living daylights out of it. Not too long after that, everyone in my family was driving a Japanese car (all still made in Japan at that time).
In the years since, I've had several North American cars and trucks, some not too bad, and many Japanese cars, all very satisfactory, as is my current ride.
In today's "global economy", your typical "North American" car could be built in Europe, Asia, or South America, and even if it's built here, many of the parts aren't. It's your money and it's up to you to decide who gets it. Brand loyalty exists for me only because the brand earned it - if they drop the ball, I'll go elsewhere.
If I were going to buy a North American car, as Charlie notes, I'd certainly consider the Focus - my son drives one and is very pleased with it. His has over 250,000 km on his and it seems well-engineered. The new (in North America) Fiesta also looks like a good one.

Wayne

111k is nothing. I'm probably working on half a million.

Just keep welding the parts back on, and fixing what is broke.

iis612 Wrote:The issue is this, I was raised on the UAW. My Dad retired from GM, my grand father retired from GM, my paternal grand father died before he could retire from GM. GM has no loyalty left to the USA. They took the bailout money, then bailed out.
Perhaps someone can offer another perspective? Matt

Matt, I spent 21 years defending Freedom, and my country. What good is freedom if we are shackled to the demands of "Brand Loyalty". Look to your needs, and how best to take care of them. Buy the vehicle that will best suit your travel/finance/family/and general transportation needs.......as for "loyalties"? freedom is the right to suffer consequence.

My '94 Shadow has 227,438 miles on it, and still going strong......and I cut it no slack!

Another way to look at it is this: Which American made car is actually "American" made anymore? If you look at the % of parts not made in the US, you will be surprised at how much is actually not American. Go for the quality -- when the big 3 and the UAW pull their collective heads out of their collective butts and look around, they'll realize their greed has cost them their jobs as people will buy for quality instead of some misplaced feeling of loyalty to a brand name.
Chuck

The UAW ... don't get me started on unions!

No, I never belonged to one, but they certainly gave me a full ration of bovine excrement! I had a grievance filed against me because I was seen carrying my own screwdriver (that I had brought from home) down the hall to MY model shop! I mean, c'mon ... get serious! All because I wore a white shirt and a tie!

It seems that the union bosses live as well as (or better) than many of the white collar execs and the rank and file do everything the union bosses tell them ("Go out on strike!") to their own detriment. Do you think the union bosses have to try to exist on "strike pay?"

We live in a "global economy," there's no getting around it. Parts are made where they can be built economically. Product is assembled where it can be done "affordably." Built into the price of each car is a piece of the incredible retirement benefits the UAW coerced the Big Three into accepting or there would be a strike. (I don't have full medical coverage nad 2/3 of my pay rate for the rest of my life ... do you?) The companies should have said, "O.K. ... go out on strike. How long can you exist on 'strike wages,' and how tough will the strike be on your union bosses?"

For some reason, I don't think the rank and file union members realize that their top guys make as much (or more) than some of the upper echelon corporate management guys do! But the corporate guys are evil 'cause they make so much money.

When was the last time a poor guy offered you a job?!!!

Listen ... just buy a vehicle that suits your needs, doesn't devastate your budget, has a good maintenance track record and you think you will be able to live with for at least half a dozen years. Although I am prejudice in favor of Ford, having driven them since the sixties (starting with a '49 Tudor flathead V8) and having a Bro-in-Law who is "highly placed" in the company (and therefore privvy to what's going on in the auto industry) I would probably get a Focus or a Fusion, built here ... both good vehicles.

Buy something you like that fits your needs...end of story. Does it make any sense to buy an "american" car that's built in Mexico with parts from China, Europe, and the far east, partly assembled in Canada and painted in the U.S.? Or do you buy a "foreign" car that's built in America with parts from China, Europe, and the far east, partly assembled in Mexico and painted in Canada? "Buy American" used to mean something in the auto industry when almost every single part was fabricated in the states. But that was what...about 30+ years ago? The global trade, manufacturing, and production process has changed so drastically, "Buy (insert favorite country here)" doesn't realistically mean anything any more.

P5se Camelback Wrote:bovine excrement!

..or as a former co-worker of mine always put it, "bovine scatology 101"

As for the car dilemma. Buy what suits your budget, needs, and what is practical. No such thing as brand loyalty IMHO.

Who is buying this vehicle - you, or the UAW? Who is going to pay for the maintenance, fuel and insurance? You, or the UAW?

There is a saying "The cheapest car is the one you already have". Don't know how that fits in with a GM pickup that you drive 150 miles a day. There is probably a tradeoff betwwen the increase in milage of the Versa and the repair costs on the GM vehicle. I have a Chrysler vehicle with 287K on it that I'm still driving and a Ford van with 194K that is still going strong.
I rented a Versa in Ireland two years ago and it was Ok but the six speed transmission was not the best that I have ever driven. Very sloppy gear changes. Milage was great, especially at 5.50 a gallon. Jim K

Mainly because it's not really a 6 speed transmission - it's a CVT with 'simulated' shift points to make it seem more like a regular automatic.

--Randy

Thank you all for the replies. I knew the answer, but it is hard to let go of the memory of my Dad saying "You buy a foreign car, and you don't need to come visit".
Well, times have changed. It is a global economy. The big 3 no longer provide the largest employment base in North America.
As long as I can get the math to work out, I will be trading in the truck this coming weekend.


Matt

Don't neglect to stock up on plywood and homosote for the layout before you trade in the truck!