Good discussion going on here. Wayne is correct. Keeping the loco off the apron is not a really valid concern. At least in this case. CP transported entire trains up and down the lakes in the Kootenay area using this method from the dawn of steam up until the diesels took over and ran pretty much until the late 80's.

GEC - I understand the concept of the idler cars and of course you are right. I also really appreciate that procedure and the link provided. Thanks!!!

The thing that has attracted me to model this area is that it seems as though they threw the rule book out the window so to speak when it came to this type of operation. As I have other prototype photos which show no idlers being used as the loco appears to lumber its way on (or off maybe?) the slip and float. A thing of beauty, which gets me a little pumped to be modeling this unique operation.

One more picture from RailPictures.Net to show the loco on the float presumably taken just after un-docking from the slip.



I also just found this video... The last run from Nakusp to Rosebery. There is even old footage included in the short clip showing the crew docking the float to the slip. This video has wishing and hoping that there is some more out there. Awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px_Asx87kt0

doctorwayne Wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the operation shown, or another part of it, transported the train and the loco on the barge. That particular branch was a series of track sections connected by lakes (or lakes connected by track sections.

Wayne

tetters Wrote:Good discussion going on here. Wayne is correct. Keeping the loco off the apron is not a really valid concern. At least in this case. CP transported entire trains up and down the lakes in the Kootenay area using this method from the dawn of steam up until the diesels took over and ran pretty much until the late 80's.

GEC - I understand the concept of the idler cars and of course you are right. I also really appreciate that procedure and the link provided. Thanks!!!

Poor word choice sinks ships!

I did not say the locomotive couldn't go on or cross the apron, only that in some situations it is undesirable for it to do so.

When that GP9 was loading its initial cut of loaded boxcars, it was using idlers for a reason. The barge was otherwise empty, and if you concentrated the weight of the locomotive and those 4 loaded boxcars onto the one side of the barge, that would put it in the position to twist excessively to "port". The barge probably would not tip over, but excessive twisting could very well damage the toggles and other Apron/barge equipment. I've heard first person accounts of horror stories where the toggles or parts of the apron get bent out of shape and jammed together. Its a nightmare to fix and it puts a quick end to operations. True, this might be more of an issue with floating aprons, rather than ones supported by a gantry like the one in the picture and your model, but its still a legitimate concern.

Once those box cars are loaded, the barge is going to to sit lower in the water and become more stable. At that point, a locomotive going onto the other track on the barge probably wouldn't be a big deal. If anything, the barge is going to straighten out a bit. Its only in situations where the weight of the locomotive and cars would be to much (as is the case when initially loading the barge as seen in the first picture).

Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:Poor word choice sinks ships!

I did not say the locomotive couldn't go on or cross the apron, only that in some situations it is undesirable for it to do so.

When that GP9 was loading its initial cut of loaded boxcars, it was using idlers for a reason. The barge was otherwise empty, and if you concentrated the weight of the locomotive and those 4 loaded boxcars onto the one side of the barge, that would put it in the position to twist excessively to "port". The barge probably would not tip over, but excessive twisting could very well damage the toggles and other Apron/barge equipment. I've heard first person accounts of horror stories where the toggles or parts of the apron get bent out of shape and jammed together. Its a nightmare to fix and it puts a quick end to operations. True, this might be more of an issue with floating aprons, rather than ones supported by a gantry like the one in the picture and your model, but its still a legitimate concern.

Once those box cars are loaded, the barge is going to to sit lower in the water and become more stable. At that point, a locomotive going onto the other track on the barge probably wouldn't be a big deal. If anything, the barge is going to straighten out a bit. Its only in situations where the weight of the locomotive and cars would be to much (as is the case when initially loading the barge as seen in the first picture).

I should have realized that! Excellent observation and of course the way you describe it, it makes perfect sense.

I tell you guys, this is really helping me realize the variety of operating potential switching the float alone is going to give me.

I was tooling around a bit last night and observed that pulling an 8 car train off the float and putting it into the yard is quite the feat in itself. In order for the entire train to clear the turnout at the top of the ladder I had to back it up all the way around "the bend" and past the Engine House stopping just before the turnout that will access the Engine House area. At yard speeds this took what I would call a considerable amount of time which is good as far as I am concerned. I want to relax and enjoy some time on the layout, not be done in fifteen minutes!

As to the "Iris G", I looked at a few pictures of her, and she seems pretty straightforward, and simple in design. A relatively small diesel tug, and not that old a design. Not a "piece-of-cake", but you should have little problem building her from scratch. Where she is steel built, styrene would work beautifully !

Sumpter250 Wrote:As to the "Iris G", I looked at a few pictures of her, and she seems pretty straightforward, and simple in design. A relatively small diesel tug, and not that old a design. Not a "piece-of-cake", but you should have little problem building her from scratch. Where she is steel built, styrene would work beautifully !

Me think that you doth have too much faith in me. But, I'll give it my best shot when I'm ready to giver a go!

Winter Ops.

What I really like is seeing pics of these two track car floats. The one I made for my layout has two but after seeing so many photos of three tracked floats I wondered if mine was at all prototypical. Some nice details in the photos above inspire me to do a little improvement work on my float.
Ralph

Ralph Wrote:What I really like is seeing pics of these two track car floats. The one I made for my layout has two but after seeing so many photos of three tracked floats I wondered if mine was at all prototypical. Some nice details in the photos above inspire me to do a little improvement work on my float.
Ralph

Glad you like them. I'll keep posting them as long as I keep finding them.

tetters Wrote:Me think that you doth have too much faith in me. But, I'll give it my best shot when I'm ready to giver a go!

tetters Wrote:

Your skills are more than adequate for the task, the above photo shows that clearly.
You need a hull...could be a wood block cut to the shape of the hull.

The tug here has a squared off bow, and transom. Bending the above deck part ( Bulwarks ) may be touchy, but do-able.
The main deck enclosure is a basic rectangle, as is the pilot house,and a lot of the "maritime details" bitts, liferings, even windows and doors, are purchasable.
The Revell "Harbor Tug" kit hull is 8-3/4" long ( 63'-6" in HO ), and is the kit I modified to build this:
[attachment=8411]
I cut the hull off at the waterline. The pilot house on this is scratch built with styrene sheet and strip.
If you were to do the same hull, cut at the waterline, glue in the deck, glue the hull and deck assembly to a thin sheet of styrene, (to lock the shape in), you could then do the bow and transom "surgery"/ rebuild, and scratch from there up.

If nothing else, just give it some thought. Where there is a will, there is a greedy relativ--- :oops: ---, a way!
Oh, the ladder, midships, attached to the side of the superstructure? That's a caboose ladder from an Athearn kit, re-formed as seen. There's one on the Starboard side also.

Sumpter250 Wrote:

tetters Wrote: Your skills are more than adequate for the task, the above photo shows that clearly.
You need a hull...could be a wood block cut to the shape of the hull.

The tug here has a squared off bow, and transom. Bending the above deck part ( Bulwarks ) may be touchy, but do-able.
The main deck enclosure is a basic rectangle, as is the pilot house,and a lot of the "maritime details" bitts, liferings, even windows and doors, are purchasable.
The Revell "Harbor Tug" kit hull is 8-3/4" long ( 63'-6" in HO ), and is the kit I modified to build this:
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
I cut the hull off at the waterline. The pilot house on this is scratch built with styrene sheet and strip.
If you were to do the same hull, cut at the waterline, glue in the deck, glue the hull and deck assembly to a thin sheet of styrene, (to lock the shape in), you could then do the bow and transom "surgery"/ rebuild, and scratch from there up.

If nothing else, just give it some thought. Where there is a will, there is a greedy relativ--- :oops: ---, a way!
Oh, the ladder, midships, attached to the side of the superstructure? That's a caboose ladder from an Athearn kit, re-formed as seen. There's one on the Starboard side also.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Sump. My comment was not meant to be taken as a poor attempt modesty. I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to pull this off.

( Gosh! Now I hope that doesn't sound arrogant?!? hock: )

Seriously though, the thing is I always approach there projects with some trepidation and humility. I do the best that I can but don't claim to be the best.

I do like and agree with your approach. Break it down into three basic shapes, Hull, Deck Enclosure, and Pilot House. I think the tricky part will be to get the scale right. Although I do have the Sylvan RR Tug Kit and can probably modify the hull to get the basic shape of the Iris G Hull down and then scratch build the rest from there.

Thanks again for your advice.

What a magnificent job on the transfer dock! My heartiest congratulations. I'm just in the starting phase of my Kootenay Lakes Steam & Navigation C. Ltd. HO scale model railway and a CPR transfer point has been built into my trackplan. The period for my railway is 1900-1920 thereabouts and I've been imagineering how the heck I'd build this model. You've shown me the way and I thank you.

I have photos and scanty drawings and will work from those when I'm ready. Thank you so much for sharing.

Cheers!

Gord Schneider
President & Chief Engineer
Kootenay Lakes Steam & Navigation Co. Ltd.

tetters Wrote:I do like and agree with your approach. Break it down into three basic shapes, Hull, Deck Enclosure, and Pilot House. I think the tricky part will be to get the scale right. Thanks again for your advice.

Scale ---- in the photo you have one "absolute dimension" 4' - 8 1/2" ( the rail gauge ). You should be able to figure out all the other measurements, starting with that one......time consuming? yes, probable ? absolutely!

I apologize for my absence of late. Life has a funny way of distracting us from our hobby pursuits.

So what the heck have I been up to? On a whim back when I finished the transfer slip I built up the nerve to send photos of my slip to Railroad Model Craftsman. I didn't think much of it until I received a reply from the editor of the magazine a couple months later who commented on how much he and the staff there loved the model and how I intended to use the model. What followed was an invitation to write and chronicle my build progress as I continue to work on the car float operations for my Kootenay Region Branch Line.

Sadly I have not had a lot of time to devout to the build progress. I have been spending a great deal of time doing trackwork and helping out with my club, something I am glad to do and its been a great experience for me. I could not have asked to join such a great bunch of guys.

However, I am slowly gearing up my creative juices and hope to have an article submitted by this spring with this portion of the layout completed. That said, I doubt I'll be able to share much of it here, at least not until its published. Which according to the editor should be Oct/Nov of 2012. He made no guarantees however I would be foolish to ignore the invitation to try and get my work published.

Needless to say, I'm very excited about this and can't wait to see if my efforts finally make it to print.

Congratulations on that invite...!!!
That model surely is worthy of publication....!! Keep it up....

Great news! You deserve it

That's excellent! Definitely a publication worthy model!
Best wishes!
Ralph