Since we often hear about how there are not enough kids and young people interested in trains, I've been trying fairly hard to bring kids to train shows and on heritage train rides.

It's easy for me, because I have two sons, My youngest son (age 8) is especially interested in trains, so we will often bring his friends with us to train events. During the past 3 years I've probably brought 5 or 6 (possibly even more) of my sons' friends to various railway events. ... it's our common practice now. We visit several model train shows and heritage railways throughout the year, and more often than not, I will have one or both of my sons, along with one of their friends.

The downside of this is that I often cannot focus on looking at various details or talk properly to other train enthusiasts because I'm too busy dealing with the kids. So, if there is a train show where is want to get "really serious" and study various details and have deep conversations, I will either go by myself or just bring one son along.

This is just a long-winded way of encouraging all members to try to bring kids to train events, especially those who are fathers of young children. Even if you're a grandparent, why not try bringing 1-2 kids along to a show if you haven't before? It can be a lot of fun and can help create a new generation of train enthusiasts. I would strongly encourage ALL of us to do this -- maybe even make it a challenge!

Sure, my sons like electronic gadgets, but that's not the only things they're into.

Thoughts?

Oh,.......this I cannot resist !!!

This past weekend I took "my inner child" to Trainfest.

pictures here: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4976">viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4976</a><!-- l -->

Sumpter250 Wrote:Oh,.......this I cannot resist !!!

This past weekend I took "my inner child" to Trainfest.

pictures here: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4976">viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4976</a><!-- l -->

Oh yes, my inner child is always at trains shows too !

This topic kinda bugs me.

We used to have a Junior Engineer thing at our train shows, where we would allow kids in a particular height/age range to run trains. It worked out for a long time and brought in a lot of money, but lately other club members decided it needed to go.

I'll be curious to see if we get as many people returning this year, since in the past we'd have "repeat" customers come in weekly to run the trains.

Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:This topic kinda bugs me.
We used to have a Junior Engineer thing at our train shows, where we would allow kids in a particular height/age range to run trains. It worked out for a long time and brought in a lot of money, but lately other club members decided it needed to go.
I'll be curious to see if we get as many people returning this year, since in the past we'd have "repeat" customers come in weekly to run the trains.

Yes, I think that's a good idea as well -- to have layouts that are child-friendly where kids can have a go at running them. These could (but don't have to be) rough/basic layouts that can take a bit of a beating.

I was at one train show last January where my son (and others) were welcome to operate a switching layout. He enjoyed doing this for several minutes. At the same show, he was also allowed to operate some 0-gauges locos up & down a stretch of track.

Then, at another recent show this fall, a club had their layout and one of their members immediately came over to my son & gave him the DCC controls to him and talked him through a series of switching maneuvers. I thought this was great! and I think we need to do more of this.

I think if we all made a bit of effort to do this, we'd help to attract a whole new generation to our hobby. There are several reasons for doing this:
-- if we believe we have a great hobby, what's wrong with taking a little time to promote it, especially to the younger generation?
-- I think it's good for kids to get away from electronic toys & games and get into something more creative such as MRR, (or meccano, or model-building, etc.)
-- if we "hoard" the hobby away to ourselves, and discourage kids from taking part or make our layouts off-limits, they will naturally not be interested.
-- there are too many things competing for kids' attention these days, so they don't come across model trains as often & easily as in the past. So maybe we have to go out of our way a little to show them our MRR stuff.

Most kids who come over to our house make a beeline to our layout -- it's set up prominently in the basement. This stresses me out a little, but I'm almost always happy to show it to them & let them try it out!

RobertInOntario Wrote:Yes, I think that's a good idea as well -- to have layouts that are child-friendly where kids can have a go at running them. These could (but don't have to be) rough/basic layouts that can take a bit of a beating.

I was at one train show last January where my son (and others) were welcome to operate a switching layout. He enjoyed doing this for several minutes. At the same show, he was also allowed to operate some 0-gauges locos up & down a stretch of track.

Then, at another recent show this fall, a club had their layout and one of their members immediately came over to my son & gave him the DCC controls to him and talked him through a series of switching maneuvers. I thought this was great! and I think we need to do more of this.

The difference for us was that we let them run on the mainline with other trains. Most kids could handle it (some should have been nowhere near our layout), but the problem was that it can be tricky to figure where the train is going to be next, and it gets very crowded. I would always have a "cable" throttle, the junior engineer a Wireless. I would plug in as we went just to keep the train in check, but with so many people, it could be difficult to get to a plug in a moment's notice, and some people just wouldn't move for the kids. In those critical seconds we move to chase the train to the next plug-in point, disaster could occur.

Parents are also a nightmare. I often was the "junior engineer guy", and i'd be stuck at it for 5 hours straight. The two worst things with the parents was the INSISTENCE that i take their kid out on the main that instant. There were no break time. some parents would get real snippy if I left to even get a glass of water. Its as if they think I didn't see the line up of kids behind them.

The other problem is that once their kid had the train underway, they could not stop micromanaging them. For one thing, you paid for the kid to run the train, no let him do it! Probably the most infuriating thing was when the parent would repeatedly tell the kid to slow down, frequently going directly against what I instructed the child to do. The average speed on the layout is between 16 or 20 speed steps out of 28, depending on the locomotive. Parents would confuse the heck out of the kids, causing their train to CRAWL over the layout and hold up traffic, or worse. What i would usually end up doing was to position myself in such a way where the parent couldn't keep up with the kid, and pass it off as the place just being to crowded. The final ruling on that train is mine, not what mom or dad is safe with.

The bottom line, I'm not trying to be discouraging, but its a very risky thing to do. I realize that our incarnation of a junior engineer was probably riskier than most, but any time you let a kid run even robust Athearn Blue-box geeps, there is still added potential for madness. if you have the space for a small mini layout that they can run, fine, but just remember that the general public is clueless, lol.

Quote:I think if we all made a bit of effort to do this, we'd help to attract a whole new generation to our hobby. There are several reasons for doing this:

-- I think it's good for kids to get away from electronic toys & games and get into something more creative such as MRR, (or meccano, or model-building, etc.)

Ironically, I think computer games are where a lot of kids take their interest in trains. To many, Train simulators do a better job than a model railroad, since everything is rendered for you in game. There are huge online communities where people simply build computer models of the different trains and put them up for download. One magazine was all "excited" over a brand new GG1 interior for the Microsoft Train Simulator, which apparently had needed an upgrade.

I used to play flight simulators all the time, and I can relate to the preference to take take to the skies on the PC rather than trying to build a flightless model kit or go through a couple RC planes.

When it comes to trains, I love to build stuff so I can't say I'd ever want to go with the train sims. I tried one once anyway, I can't drive trains to save my life!

Ultimately though, you can operate whatever you want in your virtual world, and do it truly realistically.

Quote:-- if we "hoard" the hobby away to ourselves, and discourage kids from taking part or make our layouts off-limits, they will naturally not be interested.
-- there are too many things competing for kids' attention these days, so they don't come across model trains as often & easily as in the past. So maybe we have to go out of our way a little to show them our MRR stuff.

Most kids who come over to our house make a beeline to our layout -- it's set up prominently in the basement. This stresses me out a little, but I'm almost always happy to show it to them & let them try it out!

This last part I can agree with. I think to many people write it off as "playing with trains", and don't really see the value in the hobby itself. The only way to show the hobby for its all its benefits, is to give it exposure.


That said, a major issue with the hobby that won't be easily overcome is that everything costs to much. Its easy to forget that most of us make a reasonable amount of money. Most kids can't afford to build much of a train layout. You can only go so far finding "deals" and junk for sale at flea markets or on Ebay. They have to rely on their parents to forward them money, and most parents probably don't want to put in the bucks on a "delicate" train for a young kid.

Most locomotives worth their salt cost at least as much if not more than your average video game. Though it may sound outlandish to the older folks here, Halo, Portal and Call of Duty probably gives more enjoyment than a new GP38-2 or 4-6-2 Pacific. Even though the locomotive might last longer (if taken care of), The video game with online play is always a new experience.

The hobby is totally hostile towards younger people, and EVERYTHING is geared towards that older generation. If you don't believe me, I dare someone to find me a Model Railroader where less than 50% of the articles are Transition Era.

I'm NOT (fixed) trying to be negative either, I wish there were people I could converse with about model railroading and such without boring them to death or something. its lonely for anyone under the age of 50 out here when it comes to trains.

Wow -- interesting thoughts! I've comments below in bold:


The difference for us was that we let them run on the mainline with other trains. Most kids could handle it (some should have been nowhere near our layout), but the problem was that it can be tricky to figure where the train is going to be next, and it gets very crowded. I would always have a "cable" throttle, the junior engineer a Wireless. I would plug in as we went just to keep the train in check, but with so many people, it could be difficult to get to a plug in a moment's notice, and some people just wouldn't move for the kids. In those critical seconds we move to chase the train to the next plug-in point, disaster could occur.
-- this is where I think 1-2 clubs should set up some very basic, rough layouts that can take a beating. It's probably not appropriate for all club layouts to allow kids to have a turn -- just maybe a few rough "kids' " layouts.

Parents are also a nightmare. I often was the "junior engineer guy", and i'd be stuck at it for 5 hours straight. The two worst things with the parents was the INSISTENCE that i take their kid out on the main that instant. There were no break time. some parents would get real snippy if I left to even get a glass of water. Its as if they think I didn't see the line up of kids behind them.
-- of course that obnoxious behaviour is no good. They obviously don't understand how finicky layouts are & the patience involved.


Ironically, I think computer games are where a lot of kids take their interest in trains. To many, Train simulators do a better job than a model railroad, since everything is rendered for you in game. There are huge online communities where people simply build computer models of the different trains and put them up for download. One magazine was all "excited" over a brand new GG1 interior for the Microsoft Train Simulator, which apparently had needed an upgrade.
-- Last summer, I actually bought "Trainz" for our family. My son & 2 of his male cousins went through a real phase of playing it. It's not bad at all and we all enjoy it -- even me!


That said, a major issue with the hobby that won't be easily overcome is that everything costs to much. Its easy to forget that most of us make a reasonable amount of money. Most kids can't afford to build much of a train layout. You can only go so far finding "deals" and junk for sale at flea markets or on Ebay. They have to rely on their parents to forward them money, and most parents probably don't want to put in the bucks on a "delicate" train for a young kid.
Most locomotives worth their salt cost at least as much if not more than your average video game. Though it may sound outlandish to the older folks here, Halo, Portal and Call of Duty probably gives more enjoyment than a new GP38-2 or 4-6-2 Pacific. Even though the locomotive might last longer (if taken care of), The video game with online play is always a new experience.
-- but then there are a few budget models that cost around $40 that aren't bad and there is also eBay as well. I gave one of my son's friends an old small tank engine that I seldom used, so I think there is a way around this issue.

The hobby is totally hostile towards younger people, and EVERYTHING is geared towards that older generation. If you don't believe me, I dare someone to find me a Model Railroader where less than 50% of the articles are Transition Era.
-- maybe, but then the transition era is probably one of the coolest eras. I'm totally drawn to the transition era, yet it was still before my time. The transition era is probably so popular because it allows you to run steam locos as well as classic diesels, even if it was well before your time. My 8-year-old son likes both modern diesels (obviously b/c he sees these in real life all the time) as well as steam, but then that's partly my influence. The Thomas train books have encouraged kids to be interested in the steam era as well. And we usually model British trains on our layouts so one leads to the other.

I'm trying to be negative either, I wish there were people I could converse with about model railroading and such without boring them to death or something. t lonely for anyone under the age of 50 out here when it comes to trains.
-- again, I think a big part of the solution is to build and show some very basic, robust layouts that can take a beating & let kids run them. That's kind of what my son & I plan on doing this weekend at our Toronto Christmas Train Show where we're planning to show off a small switching layout.

Cheers,
Rob

One further comment to the above re the transition era... When I go to train shows, I would say two era's dominate & they're close to being 50-50. About half of the layouts are transition era & the other half the modern era. There aren't too many (say) early-20th century or 19th century layouts, etc.

As a "youngster" in this hobby, I think that the reason why there aren't as much young model railroaders is because there simply aren't as much real railroading as there was back in the day, I bet that 9/10 model railroaders got into the hobby because they either worked for the railroad, or had one go through town. The younger generation doesn't have that luxury, the only reason I got into model railroading is because I discovered some of my dad's old HO stuff in the garage.

I do have to say though, that a new video game oftentimes sounds more appealing than model railroad stuff, a $60 video game gives instant satisfaction, and there alot more people my age who would be willing to play video games compared to model railroading.

I went to a trainshow on Sunday and I didn't see anybody my age there, I did see some young kids but there were only there with their dads.

RobertInOntario Wrote:Wow -- interesting thoughts! I've comments below in bold:


-- this is where I think 1-2 clubs should set up some very basic, rough layouts that can take a beating. It's probably not appropriate for all club layouts to allow kids to have a turn -- just maybe a few rough "kids' " layouts.

-- of course that obnoxious behaviour is no good. They obviously don't understand how finicky layouts are & the patience involved.

I'm just pointing out considerations. The layout itself doesn't need to be rough, or super robust. Ideally, the kids won't be reaching in and banging stuff around. They just need to stay off the mainline. More robust cars and locomotives might be legitimate, if only because derailments maybe more frequent.

If it were me, I would keep them on an Isolated section of track that is part of the main layout, like a short branch or something. A continuous run might be a + to some kids, but they may also enjoy switching. Mcguyver a miniature Derail to prevent unwanted movements towards the main.

Quote:-- Last summer, I actually bought "Trainz" for our family. My son & 2 of his male cousins went through a real phase of playing it. It's not bad at all and we all enjoy it -- even me!

Some of those Train Sim sites are good locations to get locomotive sounds, such as sounds for all those odd electrics I like to model. They're also good for custom Decals. For example, you can download the free equipment, and use MS paint or Photoshop to isolate different markings. As long as you don't sell it, you're golden

Quote:-- but then there are a few budget models that cost around $40 that aren't bad and there is also eBay as well. I gave one of my son's friends an old small tank engine that I seldom used, so I think there is a way around this issue.

A quick search on Walthers Shows that most of the stuff at or under $40 is Model Power or Life-Like, brands not necessarily known for reliable consistent operation. There is a reason that I don't have either of those on my layout anymore, and its not because i've become a locomotive snob.

Some of the DC bachmann, Walthers Train line, and P1K GP15-1s On sale fit in at just over $50. Still, these aren't like the old Blue Box kits, which are drying up.

The bottom line, most of the "budget" models are closer to toys, than operationally reliable models.

Quote:-- maybe, but then the transition era is probably one of the coolest eras. I'm totally drawn to the transition era, yet it was still before my time. The transition era is probably so popular because it allows you to run steam locos as well as classic diesels, even if it was well before your time. My 8-year-old son likes both modern diesels (obviously b/c he sees these in real life all the time) as well as steam, but then that's partly my influence. The Thomas train books have encouraged kids to be interested in the steam era as well. And we usually model British trains on our layouts so one leads to the other.

Still, I suspect that the transition era isn't really catching on with many of the people who are my age and slightly below. most are doing the last decade. I think Justin is the only other 1970s modeler in the young age group on this site since the forum moved here.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to keep hearing about the "1950s" in all the magazines. Everytime they discuss operations, or railroad practices, its almost always in terms of 60 years ago.

Taking a step away from the magazines, How about all those HO scale figures? All in suits and hats, or skirts/dresses. You can try to paint over some, and let others stand in, but there is no denying that companies like Woodland Scenics are all going 1950s. Preiser might have some more modern (European) figures, but these are more expensive, and somewhat harder to come by in the average hobby shop.

Fortunately for some contemporary modelers, SOME of the automobiles are Modern (to bad on us 1970s/80s modelers).

Quote:-- again, I think a big part of the solution is to build and show some very basic, robust layouts that can take a beating & let kids run them. That's kind of what my son & I plan on doing this weekend at our Toronto Christmas Train Show where we're planning to show off a small switching layout.

Cheers,
Rob

Might work to make a small O27 layout then, use the Fast track pieces. I know Industrial Rail is long gone, but I thought they used to make some cheap roboust O-scale cars. Kids can probably more easily rerail and couple/uncouple the O scale than HO.

RobertInOntario Wrote:One further comment to the above re the transition era... When I go to train shows, I would say two era's dominate & they're close to being 50-50. About half of the layouts are transition era & the other half the modern era. There aren't too many (say) early-20th century or 19th century layouts, etc.

There are quite a bit of Contemporary modelers out there, but they even leave out the times in between (should the 60s/70s/80s really be considered modern?).

To be honest, it almost seems like the only things you really can model is the 1950s or something super contemporary. Transition Era layouts always appear in the context of a large layout in the magazines, and Contemporary stuff is always on someone's small switching module. These are the only prototypes newbies can really get any reasonable information on. Its all people see, its all a lot of those I talk to are inspired by. Any other choice is asking for frustration, either in model acquisition or research.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:As a "youngster" in this hobby, I think that the reason why there aren't as much young model railroaders is because there simply aren't as much real railroading as there was back in the day, I bet that 9/10 model railroaders got into the hobby because they either worked for the railroad, or had one go through town. The younger generation doesn't have that luxury, the only reason I got into model railroading is because I discovered some of my dad's old HO stuff in the garage.

I would probably agree with most of that, though compared to the West, the East Coast is LOADED with tracks of all kinds in all states with any train you can think of. I tend to encounter a lot of young railfans, but they are not necessarily interested in model railroading. Most actually don't care to "play with trains" at all, and would rather chase the real thing.

I don't suspect the lack of young people in model railroading has entirely to do with a lack of railroad interest, Its just that few people are getting into the hobby itself. I personally blame the endless "good old days of the 1950s" mentality in the model train community. Its not really all that real when you think about it. I think it alienates some people. Even after I might get that contemporary CSX, BNSF or whatever Road switcher, good luck finding some non-1950s info on modeling to go with it.

Quote: I do have to say though, that a new video game oftentimes sounds more appealing than model railroad stuff, a $60 video game gives instant satisfaction, and there alot more people my age who would be willing to play video games compared to model railroading.

Another good point. Model railroading is not the best way to connect with others, and in an increasingly social world, model railroading doesn't always fit into the equation. I make it fit, because I enjoy it, but its like pulling teeth to discuss it with others who don't partake in the hobby.

Quote:I went to a trainshow on Sunday and I didn't see anybody my age there, I did see some young kids but there were only there with their dads.

[/quote]

Welcome to my reality, lol. Go superdetail somethings, and bring it with you to Prototype meets. They'll shower you with stuff just for being under the age of 21. The only advantage here, is if you know who sells the good stuff, you can out run the the old folks to the good train sellers!

Justinmiller171 Wrote:As a "youngster" in this hobby, I think that the reason why there aren't as much young model railroaders is because there simply aren't as much real railroading as there was back in the day, I bet that 9/10 model railroaders got into the hobby because they either worked for the railroad, or had one go through town. The younger generation doesn't have that luxury, the only reason I got into model railroading is because I discovered some of my dad's old HO stuff in the garage.

I do have to say though, that a new video game oftentimes sounds more appealing than model railroad stuff, a $60 video game gives instant satisfaction, and there alot more people my age who would be willing to play video games compared to model railroading.

I went to a trainshow on Sunday and I didn't see anybody my age there, I did see some young kids but there were only there with their dads.

Good points, but I think this is only partly true. I know of several guys are are in their 70s, who grew up watching & riding on steam trains as youngsters & young men -- this has really fueled their interest in trains. But there are several guys like me (I think!) who are younger who simply grew up watching diesel freight trains, which helped to get them into the hobby. My Dad was also a big railway enthusiast, so that has had a big influence.

Sure, there are abandoned rail lines downtown and in other places, but there are also newer rail lines and freight yards as well.

You could also argue that we are in a golden era of "big diesel" freight trains. I've read a few articles recently saying how freight train use is booming in North America and Britain. It's the most economical way to transport goods in this age of high fuel expenses. Also, commuter train service is growing & expanding as well, such as our GO Trains which operate in and around Toronto, not to mention our TTC (commuter service, streetcars, buses & subways) and even our VIA (similar to AMTRACK) is fairly popular as well.

Just to clarify, my main point of this thread is simply to encourage MRR folks to occasionally bring kids to railway events. It's obviously not realistic to do this every time but maybe we could try to do this a few times a year. This could could be the main reason why one of these kids might become a train enthusiast.

Again, all of this is easy for me because I usually take my son with me -- and now he wants his friends to come, so it happens naturally! I'm constantly interacting with kids and realize this would be harder if I were (for example) retired and/or my kids were grown up.

Cheers,