Hey guys,


Some of you may remember that I was trying to support a local railroad museum where I did my Eagle Project. In short, they lost the game, and most of the stuff is getting cut up.

HOWEVER,

Because of my Eagle scout project to rebuild the caboose, it was actually deemed to be in good enough shape for someone to bid and save the caboose from outright scrapping. Unfortunately, we hit a snag.

The caboose sits on old Archbar trucks, and they have Journal boxes. Apparently, there is something in the Journal box called a "Brass" or something to that effect. I am unfamiliar with the parts of these old railroad trucks.

These parts are either lost or stolen, and I'm told the caboose can't be moved without massive axle damage. If the parts can't be found within a reasonable amount of time, the caboose will have to be cut up.

The caboose is a CNJ plywood and Batten Caboose, road number 91291. I'm told the trucks are original.


Perhaps some of you are involved with museums or may know someone who knows where to get these parts?


Here is the caboose, on the last "workday" of the Eagle Project, back in 2007

You might be lucky if you try Kasgro <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kasgro.com/">http://www.kasgro.com/</a><!-- m --> They have been in business for a long time and if they don't have the brass, could possibly get you headed in the right direction. That being said you need to check way deeper if the move is planned for rail. If that is the case the railroads involved may not move it anyway as the friction bearing trucks have been banned for interchange for years by the AAR. Some railroads just won't move them at all.
Good Luck
Charlie

I sent a copy of this thread to my friends over at the ARHS, to see what can be done. If I had the $$$ to move it , the cabin would be in yard right now. When someone gets back to me I'll let you know.

Charlie B Wrote:You might be lucky if you try Kasgro <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kasgro.com/">http://www.kasgro.com/</a><!-- m --> They have been in business for a long time and if they don't have the brass, could possibly get you headed in the right direction. That being said you need to check way deeper if the move is planned for rail. If that is the case the railroads involved may not move it anyway as the friction bearing trucks have been banned for interchange for years by the AAR. Some railroads just won't move them at all.
Good Luck
Charlie

Thanks for the resource!

The caboose is moving most of the way by truck, but might have to be rolled to its assigned place significant distance from where we unload it. So far, it looks like the most likely candidate is the Black River & Western somewhere near Lambertville, but there may be another place in Tuckerton (not the Cape May Seashore Lines), that can take it. If it goes to the former, its going to need to be able to roll.

I might try and shoot these Kasgro people an email, and see what turns up.

e-paw Wrote:I sent a copy of this thread to my friends over at the ARHS, to see what can be done. If I had the $$$ to move it , the cabin would be in yard right now. When someone gets back to me I'll let you know.

Thanks a bunch! Fortuneately, it looks like the person who purchased it has the resources to move it to a new location. I suspect he wants to keep it in NJ though so that he can still get to it and do work on it. If you guys think you have room, and the current owner isn't satisfied with the other locations, I'll mention it.

Charlie B Wrote:You might be lucky if you try Kasgro <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kasgro.com/">http://www.kasgro.com/</a><!-- m --> They have been in business for a long time and if they don't have the brass, could possibly get you headed in the right direction. That being said you need to check way deeper if the move is planned for rail. If that is the case the railroads involved may not move it anyway as the friction bearing trucks have been banned for interchange for years by the AAR. Some railroads just won't move them at all.
Good Luck
Charlie

I agree..The railroad can also deem the caboose unfit and refuse interchange.

As it looks in the photo I don't think any railroad will accept it in interchange.

Probably be best to have it trucked if there is enough funds for such a move and for a crane to load and unload it.

Heard back from the AHRS. I just copied the email into this thread. With the important info that you need to get the caboose moved or the brass replaced.


"You need to know the size of the journals which should be cast on the journal box some where. Typical will be 5 x 9. The journal bearing doesn't matter the type of truck - just the journal size. Unless you borrow some that are a similar size it will take some time and cost to replace. They are all special order now. An alternative for a short distance move is a piece of oak cut to similar size which would have a liberal amount of grease on it. If the brass is gone then the axle bearing surface is most likely rusted anyway."


Hope this helps.

GEC, also keep in mind there are still many thieves that know there is brass in those journals and they will steel the replacements in a heartbeat, So if they are replaced and the cab is not being used, but static, replace the brass with oak. Lock the brass in a safe.

Epaw, they gave you very good information to pass along.
Charlie

Sorry for the delay, with the Forum being down, I wasn't able to get back to this.

In any event, it seems that this brass issue is going to be trouble. There is one guy that I was put in touch with through Facebook, he might be able to help, but I haven't heard back from him yet.


I got an E-mail from the current purchaser of the caboose, and he reported asking the New Jersey Museum of Transportation, though it doesn't sound like he had much luck. I relayed the information regarding the use of Oak blocks (this seems to be the common suggestion).

I asked him if he had more specific knowledge on the brasses. Unfortunately, the area is still technically off limits, and it will be some time before anyone could be technically allowed to go back an inspect the caboose.

That said, I don't think it is well enforced, as the rails-to-trails path has a constant stream of local families and joggers who apparently didn't hear the path was closed. I live much closer and I think I could take a long walk in the woods and have a look without attracting attention.

I suspect the Oak blocks might complicate things, and this is why borrowing the brass seems to be the preferred plan. The section of track that the caboose has been "Okayed" for storage, is heavily over grown (lots of trees), and there seems to be a creek nearby on one side. One of the things I was asked to do was to inspect the line and look for a place to unload it. I'm not going to be able to do that until my Masters Thesis paper is turned in, so I can't currently say how far the caboose needs to be rolled.

There appears to be a bombed out CNJ coach and an old hopper parked there already.

I'm not sure at what distance it would be practical to roll a car on oak blocks. I figure if we took it slow, it might be OK.

Using wood for bearings is nothing new, water turbines have done that for a couple hundred years. The trick is to keep them saturated with lubricant be it water or oil. Most water turbines use lignum vitae <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_vitae">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_vitae</a><!-- m --> which is so hard you must use metal tools to cut and machine it. Hard maple is also used. I think that the rock maple might even work better than oak, but for a movement at slow speed oak would be fine, and add a can of STP to each box.

Finding complete caboose trucks would be an easier task. There are lots of them as static displays and you might find a suitable trade for a little change.
Charlie

Finding complete caboose trucks would be an easier task. There are lots of them as static displays and you might find a suitable trade for a little change.
Charlie
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Charlie,Then finding a railroad that will accept that relic in interchange like I mention..It doesn't look safe and unfit for interchange.

Best would be to use a flatbed tractor and trailer and a crane to load/unload-if its safe enough.Has any qualified person inspected that caboose for major structure issues like a rusted out frame or rotted flooring?

The brass bushings may be the least of the concerns.

Larry, they have no intentions of interchange of this car, they intend to truck it to the new site. Once there if it remains static, they want something for it to sit on, but if there is a desire to use it it will need to be made safe (probably needs more than bearings). There are many shortlines rebuilding old equipment that is useable on their railroad. Heber Valley in Utah <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://hebervalleyrr.org/aboutus/">http://hebervalleyrr.org/aboutus/</a><!-- m --> has a beautiful selection of old equipment and it is often used in movies.
One of my projects at the Kiski was to get an old CNJ coach (BLT 1925) back to usable condition. It was brought in over Conrail with friction bearings in 1997 and will never leave unless the bearings are changed but it is used 3 days a week. They just removed the trucks and turned the wheels to remove the flat spots that were left from the previous railroad. Rules against interchanging a car does not necessarily make a car unsafe. The brass bearings are not interchanged because the class ones and regionals no longer have enough crewmen to check the oil in the journals or to watch over a train, not because they aren't safe when properly maintained.
At the Kiski I ran a coach, an Alco S-1, a PRR X29 box car and a transfer caboose (ex NYC) all with brass bearings and never had one overheat.
Charlie

Brakie Wrote:Charlie,Then finding a railroad that will accept that relic in interchange like I mention..It doesn't look safe and unfit for interchange.

Best would be to use a flatbed tractor and trailer and a crane to load/unload-if its safe enough.Has any qualified person inspected that caboose for major structure issues like a rusted out frame or rotted flooring?

The brass bushings may be the least of the concerns.

Brakie,

This caboose isn't intended to run again in the near future (if at all), and will be taken by truck 99% of the way there. It already has permission to be placed on the track it is going to. It only needs to roll just enough to get it from where we unload it to its storage spot. The terrain surrounding this track is not compatible with getting a big truck to it without some major work. We might have to place it on the tracks some distance from this spot, and then roll it over.

I know i'm not technically qualified, but the floor and frame appear to be surprisingly intact. The deck outside had rotted away (and someone removed the steps a long time ago), but the floor inside is OK. damage to it seems more due to the wear of decades of people going in and out of it. There weren't any soft spots in there. Before it arrived in pemberton, it looks like it must have been in some sort of children's nature camp or something, judging from the labels on the shelves.

I had taken several shots underneath to aid with an HO model I have, but I cannot find them. This shot is an "eh" shot I took on the last day of work in 2007. The frame hasn't changed much. Its grimy, but no where does there appear to be significant rust. the bottom floor boards actually appeared to be in shockingly intact shape, compared to some of the wall pieces we had to remove.


Most of the damage was around the window frames, where water leaked in. The worst damage was underneath a "sink" area, which was probably leaking into the wall. We heavily rebuilt structural members of this area, and its the only area where a large amount of the caboose had to be removed.

The underframe-



The troublesome trucks- the original Archbars. I wonder if the brass were still in the trucks when I took the photo?



Area of the worst Damage- Rebuilding



We made sure to seal the joints between the exterior wall and the structural braces, so that water couldn't get in the way it did.





For comparison, this is how it started off in June 2007. The project was done by November.

For some reason I thought you was going to move it by train since you're looking for brass bushings.. :oops:

Once on its new track you could probably move it with a wheel jack unless you need to move it a long distance-unless you can sit it in its place by crane.

I don't think I would care to sling that wooden hack..Looks fragile.

Brakie Wrote:For some reason I thought you was going to move it by train since you're looking for brass bushings.. :oops:

Once on its new track you could probably move it with a wheel jack unless you need to move it a long distance-unless you can sit it in its place by crane.

I don't think I would care to sling that wooden hack..Looks fragile.

Yup, we're only looking for these bushings since apparently there isn't a bearing surface in there at all. wood blocks are sounding like the way to go.

We'll try to get it as close to the spot as we can with the crane, but no guarantee that we won't have to roll it at least some distance.

As far as fragile, I worry about that too. Then again, it made it to Pemberton in the state that it was in the last photo, so I'm crossing my fingers that the new structural pieces we installed will make it that much more stable.

GEC, I am impressed with that car and I hope you can get it to a new home. I wonder if that had plywood sides as new or if that was the first rebuild. Too bad that is so far from the Heber, it would make a great addition to their fleet and sure would look good behind steam somewhere. Of course I realize how much work that would involve. How much did you get done (what is the status now). With that project I am sure you earned the rank. How about a little more information and pictures if you can. I know Larry and I are interested, and I am sure many more are.
Charlie