OK - this one is for all you math wizards with calipers and some knowledge of both N and HON3:

Given - that narrow gauge rolling stock is considerably smaller than their standard gauge counterparts:

Given - that HON3 runs on N scale rails:

What is the size comparison between an N scale standard gauge 40' box car and an HON3 scale 40' boxcar? :?

The prototype of both cars is 40' long.
therefor is the N scale standard gauge 40' box car 40' / 160 long = 0.25'
and the HON3 scale 40' boxcar is 40' / 87 long = 0.46'

ps. The gauge (standard vs. narrow) is not of relevance for this calculation. It's the scale that counts.

faraway Wrote:The prototype of both cars is 40' long.
therefor is the N scale standard gauge 40' box car 40' / 160 long = 0.25'
and the HON3 scale 40' boxcar is 40' / 87 long = 0.46'

ps. The gauge (standard vs. narrow) is not of relevance for this calculation. It's the scale that counts.

That doesn't make any sense, since the standard N gauge boxcar is considerable larger than it's comparable NN3 counterpart. Narrow gauge is always smaller than standard gauge rolling stock, as any old photo of the two will easily show.

MountainMan Wrote:... Narrow gauge is always smaller than standard gauge rolling stock, as any old photo of the two will easily show....

Sure, smaller but not shorter. 40' length are 40' length at all gauges and that is what you asked for.

Yep 40' is 40'. Most narrow gauge box cars were 28' to 36' I think which means the N boxcar of say 40' might be the approximate size of a HOn3 28' boxcar which might be what MountainMan was getting at? However things like the brake wheel and doors and trucks and wheels would still be the wrong size I would think.

Regardless, HOn3 and N gauge is not the same gauge!
HOe/HOn30 is the same gauge as N; 9 millimeter.

MountainMan Wrote:Narrow gauge is always smaller than standard gauge rolling stock, as any old photo of the two will easily show.

As a generalisation you're right, but I wonder if you're also confusing track gauge with loading gauge?
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Cheers, the Bear.

Graffen Wrote:Regardless, HOn3 and N gauge is not the same gauge!
HOe/HOn30 is the same gauge as N; 9 millimeter.

True but close enough for government work. How much is 6 inches in HO scale, 1/8th inch? Most people couldn't tell the difference if it's the only track on the layout. Bob Hayden used N scale to represent 24" gauge on his HO Carrabasset & Dead River layout. The six inches isn't the focus here it's standard versus narrow gauge I would think in regards to MountainMan's question?

Tyson Rayles Wrote:

Graffen Wrote:Regardless, HOn3 and N gauge is not the same gauge!
HOe/HOn30 is the same gauge as N; 9 millimeter.

True but close enough for government work. How much is 6 inches in HO scale, 1/8th inch? Most people couldn't tell the difference if it's the only track on the layout. Bob Hayden used N scale to represent 24" gauge on his HO Carrabasset & Dead River layout. The six inches isn't the focus here it's standard versus narrow gauge I would think in regards to MountainMan's question?

Well, he states it quite clearly:

MountainMan Wrote:Given - that HON3 runs on N scale rails:

Which is untrue.....
Furthermore:
To represent 2' gauge in HO, you should use Z-scale track.
The size difference between a N scale 40' boxcar, and a boxcar in HOn3 is huge! The difference is not so huge if it is a HOe/HOn30!

faraway Wrote:

MountainMan Wrote:... Narrow gauge is always smaller than standard gauge rolling stock, as any old photo of the two will easily show....

Sure, smaller but not shorter. 40' length are 40' length at all gauges and that is what you asked for.

I guess I wasn't clear, or everyone is fixated on length - typical male problem. A look at the picture indicates the fallacy of that line of reasoning.

I'm looking for a comparison in overall size between the two, looking to determine if an
HON3 car is roughly comparable to an N scale car in appearance due to the factors discussed. (edited to correct the gauge)

I'm headed up to Denver tomorrow to visit the Caboose - I'll do an on-site comparison when I'm there. I suspect I might just be right.

First of all, there were few 40' boxcars in narrow gauge> Most were 30' or shorter. D&RGW did have some 40' narrow gauge reefer cars, though. So, finding an appropriate model for visual comparison to an N-scale 40' boxcar may be tough. Doing the math, a 40' N-scale car would be 3 real inches long. A 40' HO scale car would be 5.5 inches long. But, I think that was already explained and not what you were after. Since the typical narrow gauge car was 30', it would be about 4.1 real inches long, still longer than the 3 inches of the N scale boxcar.

And - HOn3 track is a little bit wider than N-scale track, so an HOn3 layout will take up more space than an N scale layout.

An HOn3 box car is 1.41 times larger than an N scale box car. ( an HO standard gauge box car would be 1.5 times the size of an HOn3 boxcar )

An HOn30 box car might be just a bit smaller ( maybe a foot narrower, and two feet shorter ) than an HOn3 box car, but still larger than an N scale box car. ( N scale track would suffice for HOn30 )

N scale track is 1/8" narrower than HOn3 track.

Nn3 would run on Z scale track. I'm still considering building my narrow gauge 2-4-4-2 in Nn3, to operate around the dry dock on my N scale Module. I just have to find a pair of Z scale 0-4-0 mechanisms.
Hope that helps.

I'm trying to compare one thing, and people are focusing on the "forty foot" bit. Narrow gauge is smaller, so what is the physical ration of an HO-scale box car to an HON3 boxcar of the same prototype dimensions.

I already know that standard gauge 40" boxcar is 40" x 10" x 10",weights 25 tons and can carry 50 tons, and it's narrow gauge counter part is 30" x 7'6" x 8', weighs 12 tons and can carry 25 tons. That's not what I am looking for. I need the ratio of size between HO scales - HO:HON3.

I picked 40' because that is the longest car my layout can properly handle. I could have picked any length and the question would still be the same.

Nobody makes N-scale period standard gauge cars - it's another instance of the manufacturers turning their backs on a specific market. You either do narrow gauge or modern because they say we have to. I say we don't have to. There is always another way.

40' is 40' no matter what the scale same as 30' is 30' no matter what the scale so a 40' HO boxcar is going to be 10' longer than a HOn3/n30 boxcar.The 30' car is 75% of the length of a 40' boxcar. Remember HO scale is 1:87 no matter what the track gauge is.The same applies to all scales. The ratios of scale are consistant to all gauges in that scale.

This only applys to North American models as other countries may use a different size ratio for their scales

MountainMan Wrote:I already know that standard gauge 40" boxcar is 40" x 10" x 10",weights 25 tons and can carry 50 tons, and it's narrow gauge counter part is 30" x 7'6" x 8', weighs 12 tons and can carry 25 tons. That's not what I am looking for. I need the ratio of size between HO scales - HO:HON3..

If my maths is right using the dimensions that you've supplied then the length and width ratio would be 1: 1.33, but the height ratio would be 1: 1.25.
Hope this helps,
Cheers, the Bear.