There's a saying in Model Railroading: Whatever it is, there's a prototype for it!

What I'd like to see here are real, prototype locations that seem to violate the established 'rules' for model railroading:

Super sharp curves, crazy grades outside of logging lines, spaghetti bowls. 'missing the christmas tree' loops, 'badly soldered points', 'poor ballasting', 'cars not weathered properly', and other silly rivet-counter complaints.

The LAJ Ry has some very sharp curves. It's a standard gauge switching RR & invented the term "selective compression" long before model RRers did. It has one place w/ a 85 degree curve (10"R HO scale) & a #3 switch. So took a piece of flex track & laid it w/ a 10" R curve. Was able to run a Bachmann S-2 & an Athearn CF7 & a 40' boxcar forwards & backwards w/ no problems. Tried it w/ a 50" boxcar & it always derailed!

ScrewySqrl Wrote:There's a saying in Model Railroading: Whatever it is, there's a prototype for it!
What I'd like to see here are real, prototype locations that seem to violate the established 'rules' for model railroading:
Super sharp curves, crazy grades outside of logging lines, spaghetti bowls. 'missing the christmas tree' loops, 'badly soldered points', 'poor ballasting', 'cars not weathered properly', and other silly rivet-counter complaints.

Sag Harbor Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Company's "railroad", is 3' gauge because the tight confines of the Shipyard, required curves too sharp for Standard Gauge. ( SHS&D really has no "prototype", but I have been on ships, in shipyards,
for overhaul, and am aware of the restrictions the yard imposes on the use of railroads, and the layout of their tracks ).

I like the idea of posting photos of scenes that appear to violate all the accepted concepts of an operating railroad.
:?: When did prototype railroads "solder points" :?: Things like that could be used to greatly personalize a layout, or create an " I can't believe that this thing is actually, a *working* ",
"bundle of unbelievability" ( which can be far more challenging, and far more "creative", than modeling a prototype ).

For me, personally, it is the successful reproduction of a scene that has a strong "natural" appearance. I've been at this for,
...........well..........over fifty years now, and still I'm finding better ways to do things, and better materials to do them with.
[attachment=18940]

the 'solder points' was from a pic in the M, N, O, Photo thread that inspired me to create this.


I'd say a top candidate for this would be the Darjeeling Himalayan Railroad, built back in the 1870s-80s in India. a Narrow gauge railroad that climbs up 7400 feet of elevation in less than 51 miles. That means it averages a 2.75% grade, but has some sections that exceed 5% grades, has curves as narrow as 56 feet radius(!) (thats 9.75" in HO scale!) -- on a curve appropriately labeled 'agony curve. It gets the nickname 'toy train' for a reason. But it works and they are still operating 140-year old steam engines every day.

Some of the loops:



that loop is only 69-1/2 feet in radius!



Agony Point

Southern Pacific (now UP) has their loop in the the Tehachapi Mountains. It even has a siding.

I was about to say "that's crazy ! :o :o - - - - - - - -

But, I guess "completely Loopy" fits better. They have compensated for the tight ( understatement intended ) curves by using shorter rolling stock.
They have done, what "we" too often have to do. "bend the rules" to get our railroads to fit in the given "Real Estate". Sometimes even the prototype has precious little choice. The world is what it is, the railroad has to fit in it,
one way or another.

"that loop is only 69-1/2 feet in radius!" :o That's only 4-1/2 feet more than the length of the "luxury Power Yacht" model I'm currently building. :o

This is the Conrail ZTS chart of a scrap dealer in the Elizabeth NJ area. It comes in at just about bigger than your average oval layout. I seem to remember an old aerial view had an SW of some kind working in there, and it would interchange with the Conrail tracks next to it. This area is a parking lot between two big distribution centers now.

Would you consider the Mt. McClellan route in Colorado, built to the top of the mountain - 13,587 ft - solely to take people on wildflower excursions for a few brief weeks a year?

The weather is so bad up there that it was years after abandonment before the tracks could be taken up.

[/quote]As well as serving the silver mining operations of the region, the railroad was also intended for the tourist trade, ascending 13,587 ft (4,141 m)[1] Mount McClellan and intending to reach the summit of 14,270 ft (4,350 m) Grays Peak nearby. It was believed at the time that Mount McClellan was 14,007 ft (4,269 m) high, but this was later disproved. It remains the highest altitude reached by a regular adhesion railway (as opposed to a rack railway) in the United States.

The line was steeply graded and sharply curved, with a standard of 6% grade maximum and 32° minimum curvature; even so, it required six switchbacks on the ascent. Due to these grades, geared steam locomotives were used exclusively, the railroad rostering a total of seven two-truck Shay locomotives.[quote]

Sumpter250 Wrote:

ScrewySqrl Wrote:There's a saying in Model Railroading: Whatever it is, there's a prototype for it!
What I'd like to see here are real, prototype locations that seem to violate the established 'rules' for model railroading:
Super sharp curves, crazy grades outside of logging lines, spaghetti bowls. 'missing the christmas tree' loops, 'badly soldered points', 'poor ballasting', 'cars not weathered properly', and other silly rivet-counter complaints.

Sag Harbor Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Company's "railroad", is 3' gauge because the tight confines of the Shipyard, required curves too sharp for Standard Gauge. ( SHS&D really has no "prototype", but I have been on ships, in shipyards,
for overhaul, and am aware of the restrictions the yard imposes on the use of railroads, and the layout of their tracks ).

I like the idea of posting photos of scenes that appear to violate all the accepted concepts of an operating railroad.
:?: When did prototype railroads "solder points" :?: Things like that could be used to greatly personalize a layout, or create an " I can't believe that this thing is actually, a *working* ",
"bundle of unbelievability" ( which can be far more challenging, and far more "creative", than modeling a prototype ).

For me, personally, it is the successful reproduction of a scene that has a strong "natural" appearance. I've been at this for,
...........well..........over fifty years now, and still I'm finding better ways to do things, and better materials to do them with.
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But how does this violate the "natural order" or prototypes?

My "prototype", the Morenci Southern Railroad:

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Loops, tunnels, steep grades, and bridges galore in a very short distance.

In my view the one that takes the cake is the CNJ's Bronx terminal in NYC. The crazy amount of super compact and tight switches along with the circular freight transfer house, car float, engine house, offices and other related buildings all squeezed into a back yard (almost) sized plot of land in amazing. Never mind the fact that the tracks don't go anywhere,,, the car float is the only way on or off the property for rail based transport. Some one even built a layout of every square inch of it in HO and N scale. This was also the proving ground for the first successful diesel in the us, CNJ # 100. I have posted a few links about the terminal including a 8mm film of the prototype.

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Back in 2000 when I was working up in Fiji I managed to get time to walk along part of the “Main Line” between Nadi and Lautoka near Vuda Point of the 2 foot gauge Sugar Cane Railways. What the photographs don’t show was the state of the track, loose or missing spikes and or fish plates.
[attachment=18966]
Speed was not an issue but this was not apparently an uncommon sight....
[attachment=18965]
.......talking to an expat Aussie engineer/ advisor to the sugar industry,I mentioned to him the state of the track and I wondered why they did not employ locals to maintain the track in a better condition? He informed me that at the time the sugar industry was heavily subsidised by the European Union and that as the derailments just happened , as pure coincidence :o , near the villages along the way, getting the local villagers to set to rights the derailed wagons was regarded as way to distribute some of that money to even more people. I guess it worked but talk about crazy!!
Cheers, the Bear.

So we need photos? How's this?

There's also an "Xmas tree" circle of track on the west side of the old ATSF La Mirada Yard as seen in the attachments below. It's just a little more complex than the one shown above
Sorry Reinhard there's no old brick buildings here as mostly post 1970 concrete tilt ups.

[attachment=0]<!-- ia0 -->R ATSF LA MIRADA HOUSE TRACK + OFFICE.jpg[/attachment
[attachment=18991]
[attachment=18990]