As I gaze upon a beautiful HO-scale model of a GP40 locomotive I am moved to remember that during the late '60's through the mid '70's real GP40's were keeping the industry alive amid crazy government regulation. The ICC went bye-bye in 1995. By then the rail industry was in much better shape than it was in, say, 1968 or 1975. Here in Corpus Christi, Texas at the seaport a new rail yard has just been completed and put into service, and it is the beginning of bigger things to come. I mean offence to no person when I observe the rail industry making its way despite government opposition. Roll on.
Not to mention lack of government funding.
I hope there never is any government funding. If the industry can't stand on it's own two feet it deserves to die. Amtrak is sucking down too many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ now. No need to throw good money after bad.
Tyson Rayles Wrote:I hope there never is any government funding. If the industry can't stand on it's own two feet it deserves to die. Amtrak is sucking down too many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ now. No need to throw good money after bad.
Mike,Most Eastern railroads was living off Government loans in the 60s and by the early 70s these roads was on the brink of finical collapse and the Feds decided it was time to do something and that something was Consolidated Rail Corporation better known as ConRail..Unlike Amtrak Conrail began to turn a profit in the 1980s and was turned over to private investors in 1987.
During this time C&O/B&0/WM,N&W ,Southern and SCL was in great finical shape..It was also during this time the Chessie System was formed as the parent company for C&O,B&O and WM--
none of these roads was merged under the Chessie banner. The mergers would come under CSX in '87..B&O/WM merger came first the B&O was merged into the C&O and the C&O was merged into CSX..The Family Lines (SCL/L&N/CRR) was formed as well.These roads was merged and became the short lived Seaboard System.
I know all that Larry but it doesn't have anything to do with what I said. When I said I hope there never is any government funding I'm referring to now and the future. Nothing can be done about the mistakes of the past.
Tyson Rayles Wrote:I know all that Larry but it doesn't have anything to do with what I said. When I said I hope there never is any government funding I'm referring to now and the future. Nothing can be done about the mistakes of the past.
Mike,There still is.. Some short lines and regional railroads get state and federal operating grants for improving their infrastructure. There is always handouts because shippers still needs rail service and runs to state,federal and local governments to insure they don't lose that service even though the serving short line might move less then 10 cars a week or may operate on a as needed bases..Your tax dollars hard at work..
Like Amtrak they need to quit it! There are better ways to waste our tax dollars like roads to nowhere and bridges and airports no one uses. Really I am against any government money being used for subsidies/bailouts/grants or whatever you want to call it where private enterprise of any kind is concerned.
Foreign railroads are often government owned. these are as necessary to the overall transportation picture. Remember, transportation is necessary to industry and national defense as well. The problem in the United States is that the federal government has a lot less influence on these matters than people realize. States have a lot more say in the use of federal dollars than the fed does.
Railroads in the northeast at the time of the creation of Conrail also had a problem with customer bases because a lot of the jobs had shifted to the south from the northeast (and subsequently overseas).
For reasons of national security, railroad infrastructures should be maintained to the highest standards. No one knows when, where, or the size of the next conflict that the United States will face.
Tyson Rayles Wrote:Like Amtrak they need to quit it! There are better ways to waste our tax dollars like roads to nowhere and bridges and airports no one uses. Really I am against any government money being used for subsidies/bailouts/grants or whatever you want to call it where private enterprise of any kind is concerned.
Mike,Trains Magazine has covered this in several issues over the years.There will always be operating grants for short lines and some regional railroads through the region's Port Authority..A PA will buy a endangered rail line then offer the line up for bids to short line operators..The PA will issue a operation grant to get the wheels rolling.This grant is usually used for infrastructure like new rail and ballast..The reason is simple jobs lost means lost votes and a down turn in the communities prosperity .
Of course these lines was dumped by the major railroads because they were "unprofitable" even though some was handling as much as 3,600 car loads a year..
Nothing any of you have said invalidates a thing I have said. As far as "Foreign railroads are often government owned. " goes those countries are trying to turn them over to private companies because they are bankrupting the governments. It makes no sense for us to copy their mistakes.
Tyson Rayles Wrote:I hope there never is any government funding. If the industry can't stand on it's own two feet it deserves to die. Amtrak is sucking down too many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ now. No need to throw good money after bad.
Then you agree that trucking and private automobiles have to die, since the highways they use are heavily funded by the government...right?
Airlines as well.
"Then you agree that trucking and private automobiles have to die, since the highways they use are heavily funded by the government...right? Wrong!
Airlines as well."
You are comparing apples to oranges. The highway system is not a private industry, RR's are. As far as airlines go, no they shouldn't be subsidized either.
Eisenhower created the Interstate system as a necessity to the nation's defense after seeing Germany's Autobahn system and how it was used by Germany during WW2. While built privately, railroads are also an integral part of the nation's defense. The United State's railroad system was built to help with westward expansion in a time when automobiles were non existant and there was room to develop a rail network. Europe had to deal with building it's rail networks through more densely populated areas.
In WW1, railroads were run by the government as a means of expediting troops, equipment, and supplies. Railroads can move these items faster and at a lower cost than highways can from coast to coast.
There was an idea floated around awhile ago that the US Government should purchase the nation's rail network and parcel out the routes to private company Designated Operators (much as a lot of local governments and European governments are doing).
Eisenhower created the Interstate system as a necessity to the nation's defense after seeing Germany's Autobahn system and how it was used by Germany during WW2.
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Actually that was Eisenhower and the trucking industry idea.Trucks could not compete with rail over the long distance shipping without the Interstates.
Along with the Interstates and very little regulations govern the trucking industry they could transport cheaper then rail.Drivers could drive 24 or more hours without a rest stop.The trucking industry got a free infrastructure unlike the railroads even if they do pay road tax while railroads spend millions maintaining their infrastructure. This along with industries closing in the rust belt lead to Eastern railroad bailouts by the Feds..
In short the Feds could not afford to have a major rail collapse in the Eastern states since that would mean the lost of thousands of rail, industrial and support jobs.
Actually, the US Army decided before WW1 that railroads alone would not satisfy the logistical needs of it's transportation requirements. In 1919, the US Army got together a convoy led by General Jack Pershing and accompanied by Lieutenant Colonel Dwight Eisenhower for a trip from Washington DC to San Francisco. The trip took them 2 months over dirt roads and collapsing bridges.
As the Allies pushed into Germany, now General Eisenhower saw the advantages of good roads for Army logistics and as president, made it one of the world's larges public works projects. Remember, enemy saboteurs were trying to destroy rail lines and bridges, so roadways offered a back up plan for the moving of troops and equipment.
The department of defense also deemed a highway system necessary for the evacuation of large populations in case of a disaster or nuclear attack (even though the DOD films claimed that you would be safe by hiding under your dining room table).
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/interstate1.html
http://www.history.com/topics/interstate-highway-system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System