Hi folks,

I'm actually in the process of designing how I'll rebuild a MDC Roundhouse boxcab (which a kind member of this forum is providing me with).

I'll soon start to rebuild a home layout after a long hiatus and the next project will be a reincarnation of my old Harlem Station. This particular Bronx, NYC prototype used boxcab to switch the very diminutive yard.

It's been a few months since I wanted to try to build a radio-controller/battery powered locomotive (DCC + sound). The boxcab is nice because it is small and still have lots on room inside. I did some test and every components should fit with enough place to model the cab interiors (both ends). I know it won't come cheap but let's say it'S for the sake of experimenting with alternate technologies.

Now the BIG question. Which drive to use? And it's where I'd like some feedback. I'm open to any suggestion. There's only 3 main requirements: can crawl at slow speed (0 to 10 scale mph), not too noisy and takes very little room inside the shell.

1) Reusing MDC drive... Looks not a good idea!

2) Using a Bachmann GE 44-Tonner drive. Twin motor older version seems unrealiable and takes a lot of room inside the cab. The newest single motor leaves enough space for all component. That would be my favorite choice BUT there's two issues: wheel base is quite off and wheels are too small (33" vs 38"). I've seen many people splice and lenghten diesel locomotive frames. Could it be possible to shorten the GE 44-ton chassis to fit the boxcab original wheelbase? Is it possible to replace the wheel with ones with the correct diameter? I know it's a lot of work, but I don't mind. Model Railroading is fun, isn't?

3) Using a motorized truck: lots of room in the shell to add components, weight and perfectly decorated cabs and you can get the right wheel base and diameter. Stanton drive is one of them. But I've read performance at slow speed are so-so. Any feedback on that? Some other people recommand Black Beetle, which are similar, but supposedly would perform better at slow speed. I must admit it would be the most interesting option, but performance should follow.

Well, that's where I'm standing now.

I was just working on a Bachmann GE 44 ton to get it working again and possible use the drive for a boxcab. One of the axles was split and I needed a replacement. I borrowed the four axles from a Bachmann GE 70 ton and they fit perfect even they have a larger diameter of 10.5 mm vs 9.5 mm. That might solve one problem ( "wheels are too small (33" vs 38")" ).

The noise of the GE 44 to drive is hard to define. Bachmann has very little quality control with those old models. You should try to test several and buy the most silent runner. The more silent runners work together with a sound decoder fine. The sound, even at a very low volume, will predominate the drive noise.
I have one behind me in the very quite room (1:48 am) and the volume of the Loksound is set to 15 out of 64. The drive sound is virtually not noticeable.

faraway Wrote:I was just working on a Bachmann GE 44 ton to get it working again and possible use the drive for a boxcab. One of the axles was split and I needed a replacement. I borrowed the four axles from a Bachmann GE 70 ton and they fit perfect even they have a larger diameter of 10.5 mm vs 9.5 mm. That might solve one problem ( "wheels are too small (33" vs 38")" ).

The noise of the GE 44 to drive is hard to define. Bachmann has very little quality control with those old models. You should try to test several and buy the most silent runner. The more silent runners work together with a sound decoder fine. The sound, even at a very low volume, will predominate the drive noise.
I have one behind me in the very quite room (1:48 am) and the volume of the Loksound is set to 15 out of 64. The drive sound is virtually not noticeable.

Unfortunately, I don't have anymore the occasion to try my locomotives before buying them. The remaining LHS is notorious for selling is model railroading item at blown up prices and he probably doesn't carry this model. I'm not eager to travel 500 km to the next one that would have them in store!

I have a GE 44-Ton (which isn't meant to to bashed). It is quite noisy even if relatively new. I'm also thinking the noise would be overpowered by the sound decoder under normal circumstances (at least, at some point).

Good to know 36" inches wheel replacements are available. 2 inches discrepancy is more tolerable (0.5 mm)!!! The next question is to find out if the frame can be shortened by 6.5mm.

Matt

Reinhard, I continued my quest and found out the GE 44-ton single motor version is definitely the best choice for the Roundhouse shell.

In fact, the Roundhouse shell seems to have a few discrepancies that makes the GE 44-ton truck spacing looking prototypical. If you add 70-ton wheels like you suggested, the model becomes extremely convincing. I believe keeping the right proportions is far better to fool the eyes than going nuts over exact truck spacing at the expense of proportions.

Anyway, after stacking photos of models and real boxcabs then inserting components I came to the conclusion there's enough space for everything, including some extra weight.

Matt

Good luck on your project Matt. I recently rebuilt a Bachmann 44 tonner that I got off ebay. Unfortunately I got one of the slightly noisier ones but it runs well and reliably.
I too have a boxcab shell that is due for the paint shop. I'll probably stick it on a dummy chassis since I already have way more engines than I need!

Matt, I am now waiting for the shells. I am in positive contact with Jack, thanks to your quick decision. It is also my plan to add some weight. There should be plenty of room in the boxcab.

Two new GE 44 tons (Nickel 90, Rio Grande 43) ordered to be the drive of the boxcabs arrived today. Looks like Bachmann changed the design.

The new GE 44 ton has a new PCB with the LED directly soldered. The old tubes holding the lights are gone. The trucks got changed too. The axles bearings are now the same as Life Like used them for a longtime with the small brass blocks. But they are not used for current pickup. There are small brass strips pressing against the back of the wheels. Drawback from point of view of boxcab is that the GE 70 tons (left) axles can not swapped into the new GE 44 tons.

But the best is: The reworked Bachmann GE 44 tons is a smooth and silent runner!!!!
(after you swapped the fun decoder with a real DCC decoder of course!)

You can distinguish the old and new version by the bottom truck cover. The old one has five holes (like the GE 70 ton) and the new one has only three holes (right side over the truck)

With respect to our boxcab projects:
A. old noisy drive but larger diameter wheels from the GE 70 tons
or
B. new silent drive but to small wheels

I choice is "B"

Reinhard,

Good to hear you could get a deal with Jack. It's kind of reassuring knowing we are two in this adventure!

I also ordered a brand new GE 44-ton. I should get it early next week. I'm happy the new drive is more reliable. It was truly my main concern. I can't believe you call that thing Bachmann put in its locomotives a "decode"!!! Seriously, the only one that worked fine was the value sound decoder in their RS3 which was an excellent impulse buy.

About the wheels, do you think it could be possible to just pop out the wheels from the axle and replace them? I know, I'm pushing my luck too far!

I also started to see what can be done about battery power with this locomotive. Taking in account the GE 44 frame and motor, a 850mAh Lipo could fit which should be enough for a switching layout. About R/C, I think DRS1 would be the safest way to go for me since I could retrofit my NCE system and keep their throttle which I like.

Matt

Reinhard, feel free to hijack the thread if you want to document your conversion progress. Better keep all the information in a single place.

Matt

sailormatlac Wrote:.....Seriously, the only one that worked fine was the value sound decoder in their RS3 which was an excellent impulse buy.

About the wheels, do you think it could be possible to just pop out the wheels from the axle and replace them? I know, I'm pushing my luck too far!

I also started to see what can be done about battery power with this locomotive. Taking in account the GE 44 frame and motor, a 850mAh Lipo could fit which should be enough for a switching layout. About R/C, I think DRS1 would be the safest way to go for me since I could retrofit my NCE system and keep their throttle which I like.

Matt

Matt, ok lets keep the GE 44tons/boxcab conversion in one place in this thread. My two boxcabs left Inverness yesterday. They are very closely online tracked...

I think Bachmann made a marketing failure by soldering that poor decoder. The decoder spoils all the advantage of the improved drive. They should sell the model with a 8 pin plug for easy decoder upgrade. e.g. my dealer did not know that Bachmann enhanced the drive. The model sounds as bad as usual with the old decoder.

Asking to replace the wheels only instead of the entire axis is a bad one.... I would like to but if I fail is the engine ruined. I do temper as little as possible with the drive itself.

I am surprised you plan/think about running the engine on batterie with RC control. Would be a nice gimmick switching smoothly on awful dirt covered tracks.

faraway Wrote:Asking to replace the wheels only instead of the entire axis is a bad one....

I'm not familiar with that locomotive, but if they use wheels with stub axles that press into a plastic sleeve which includes the driven gear, a change in wheel size would be simple, as long as the axle diameter matches that of the Bachmann 44 Tonner.

Wayne

doctorwayne Wrote:

faraway Wrote:Asking to replace the wheels only instead of the entire axis is a bad one....

I'm not familiar with that locomotive, but if they use wheels with stub axles that press into a plastic sleeve which includes the driven gear, a change in wheel size would be simple, as long as the axle diameter matches that of the Bachmann 44 Tonner.

Wayne

Wayne, that's exactly my idea...

Reinhard, do you think the wheels can pop from the axle?

About the RC/Battery I'm still not sure if I want to invest that much to try it out. I have a NCE PowerCab, but it's not very practical with a cord when you have to go around an island layout. I prefer to keep that system for an ISL. I've seen some people building a weird hybrid between the NCE starting kit and DRS1 but it seems highly bulky and powering the battery!

The easy way would be to have the fancy electronic stuff in idle cars... but Harlem Station had such a small yard lead (1 loco + 2 cars) they never bothered using them. I could use a Roundhouse shorty flat car/gondola. Thus the idle car could be MUed with different locomotives using the same battery/receiver.

The locomotive ran on the carfloat to pickup cars and that's something I'd like to do. Having battery power or keep alive would make it possible without bothering about wiring.

Matt

sailormatlac Wrote:..... Reinhard, do you think the wheels can pop from the axle?......

I read quite often that it is fine and more cost effective to buy the plastic part of split Lifelike axis only and press the two wheels into it. That advise is very often given and I assume it will work. I admit I did never try it. I bought always complete new axis with wheels and plastic.

Pressing metal in plastic for a perfect fit is a risky thing. It may work, is may be to loose or the plastic may split.
Guess I am sort of a coward

faraway Wrote:

sailormatlac Wrote:..... Reinhard, do you think the wheels can pop from the axle?......

I read quite often that it is fine and more cost effective to buy the plastic part of split Lifelike axis only and press the two wheels into it. That advise is very often given and I assume it will work. I admit I did never try it. I bought always complete new axis with wheels and plastic.

Pressing metal in plastic for a perfect fit is a risky thing. It may work, is may be to loose or the plastic may split.
Guess I am sort of a coward

You a coward? Are we talking about the same man not afraid to rebuild price-winning layouts every season?

From Bachmann official pictures, it seems the axles are plastic like Wayne described. There's some hope...

I think I'll wait to have the engine in my hands before making too much assumptions about wheel/axle replacement.

Matt

The boxcabs arrived from Jack within one week only. Thanks a lot to Jack!

They came with old Bachmann 44ton drives that had been mounted with a new base plate (white element in the front row) Jack built from scratch. I adopted (stole) that very efficient design and built two new baseplates (second row) matching the slightly changed dimensions of the new Bachmann 44ton drive (third row). The centers are enforced to hold the mounting screws later on. The ends are simply clipped into the base plate (notice the four large holes in Jack's base plate). That made the adoption of the new drives very easy.



Next step is to get some lights in the box(cab).

6 pm:

A light in a box



9 pm:

- shells and baseplates with step boards etc. got a layer of black paint
- window glasses are glued in place
- the lights/LEDs got some crystal clear to form a lens
- a strip of lead is under the roof, that increases the weight to 180g/6.3oz
- the baseplate is glued into the shell
- shell/baseplate assembly is mounted with screws on the drive like original the GE 44ton shell

That's it for today. Two black unlettered boxcab switchers are ready for work and I am happy