First , I've never been one to paint or carve or chalk things into other peoples property .....I just think it's a dumbass , disrespectful thing to do , but that's me .

What is the purpose of graffiti on rail cars ? I understand that in the hood of many cities it's a gang territorial thing .....like a dog marking it's territory .....but why railcars ? They move to other locations . I see modelers doing this too , but I won't on my layout .

T

Hi T.

Looking for a way to generate some lively discussion!?

I'm guessing here but I'd imagine the appeal of rail cars to "taggers" is that they provide a large canvas that is readily available in many locations that, once painted, then goes on a tour of the country for lots of people to see. Must be a bit of an ego trip for them.

I cannot condone painting graffiti on railroad equipment. It is vandalism. A lot of it is an absolute mess on the cars but the interesting thing is that some of the work is amazingly elaborate and could be considered "art" were it painted on a building wall as part of a community sanctioned project. I don't know what percentage of taggers would find that option appealing...perhaps some..perhaps others would miss the sens of it being illegal, counter-culture, and potentially dangerous.

My Penn Central era had very little graffiti on cars as DVD collections of PC roll-bys attest. I like that. I have for fun, however, added some graffiti on a couple of cars to reference friends who will see the cars go by during visits. They don't have as much of a sense of era regarding my layout so they think freight cars ALWAYS had graffiti. There have been some changes in peoples understanding of boundaries and personal responsibility over the years. Graffiti is certainly one example. The other that really bothers me is how automobile carriers went from completely open frames to completely encased to protect cars from vandalism..something that apparently was not an issue up to the early or mid 1960's.

I run mid 50's early 60's and any videos I've seen from that era don't show graffiti on cars . "Budding artists " ??....maybe in their own mind .

You guys are spelling it wrong - it's "crap petey"!

These people are not artists or taggers or what ever, thy are criminals or vandals and should be called that. The name graffiti should not be used because it is vandalism and that is what it should be referred as. If I modeled the modern era I would model a perfect world with no crime because I don't condone or promote it.

For those that condone it by using the name tagger and graffiti, maybe they should think up nicer names for murderers and terrorists because those are such harsh names for such nice people.

Sadly, I've known taggers. They see their tag as art. It's not, but in their small simpleton minds it is. One tagger that I knew was on just about every subway car in the NYC system. He was like a local celebrity to the hood rats in my old neighborhood.

Be careful here, guys.

Every time this subject comes up on a model railroad forum, it results in a locked thread

I'm sure "graffiti" has been extensively studied by sociologists. I've seen it on the walls inside Mammoth cave, where visitors couldn't resist writing their names and leaving a message - over 100 years ago. I've heard where archaeologist speculate that some cave art and petroglyphs may be nothing more than "graffiti". People have carved initials onto trees and park benches for ages. And I will guess that at some point, more than half the people alive today once wrote their name or a message on a bathroom stall or a school desk when they were a kid.

I think modern graffiti follows the same line - people (mostly adolescents) who feel they are nobody want to become somebody, and marking up public property is one way to step out of the crowd. If you notice, most of the graffiti is placed in locations where it will be visible - for a reason. That's why railroad cars are targets - they are a large "canvas" often parked unprotected in a mostly invisible location, until the train moves and then everybody sees it. I think the progression of graffiti from simple initials or names to designs that cover a whole wall follows the development and availability of spray paint.

Yeah, I don't like it, either. But I have resigned to the fact that mix adolescent human social nature with convenience of spray paint and it's inevitable.

Fools names, and fools faces, are often seen in public places.
Interestingly, my 2016 calendar does not designate "April Fool's Day".........does that mean there is still hope ?

Kevin , I guess I don't get around to other forums ....never seen the topic dicussed , let alone locked out . I don't understand why it would be such a touchy issue .

T

I don't get graffiti either.

In highschool, one "unit" of my mandatory art class was to make "graffiti". According to my teacher and my grade for that particular assignment, I truly don't understand graffiti at all.

teejay Wrote:Kevin , I guess I don't get around to other forums ....never seen the topic dicussed , let alone locked out . I don't understand why it would be such a touchy issue .

T

Because clearly:

" you're want to silence my first amendment rights and limit my expression of myself. This is my art and the way I show the world my pains and struggles. Its part about what makes the city colorful and unique, and if you try to wipe away my art you're just trying to repress me and make the world drab. "

I'm not serious about the above, but there are people who feel VERY strongly in the other direction about the graffiti. Few will deny that it is vandalism, but to some it doesn't matter.

Like it or not, Graffiti has a strong cultural meaning to many. It goes just beyond the misguided attempts at "art". There are those who actually see the clean up of some graffiti as a "loss", as pulling away some of the color and character of a given city.

Some more historically minded "fans" of taggers I met considered cleaning off some graffiti nearly as bad as burning books. They may know of a tag that survived many decades, that had a meaning back when it was applied, be it civil rights or whatever issue. To them, its more than just "art", it has greater depth, and perhaps tells a story that might be otherwise forgotten.

Yeah, that sounds a little silly ( I am giving myself an inwardly facing raised eyebrow), but I can see why people might get upset. Not saying its right, not saying I like graffiti art (definitely a reason I model early Conrail. Most cars aren't tagged!). Most "graffiti" is nonsense anyway, but I do understand why people might get upset.

For some strange reason , I'm having a flashback to an item on tv about 30+ years ago ....some ( supposedly ) famous artist put a large canvas on the floor , splashed paint on it from a couple of different coloured cans of paint , and proceeded to ride around through the paint on a tricycle ! Of course the wheels made a pattern in the paint ......a few minutes of this crap and he proudly called it "art" ...........uh-huh , and pigs fly !

teejay Wrote:Kevin , I guess I don't get around to other forums ....never seen the topic dicussed , let alone locked out . I don't understand why it would be such a touchy issue .

T

Oh, I have! The conversation rapidly deteriorates when modelers who add graffiti to their modern era cars catch flack from people who think they are "emulating vandalism". The graffiti modelers insist they are just modeling the world realistically as it is, while their opponents respond as if they were accessories to a crime. Then, some one will publish a photo of a real freight car with some astonishing graphics that makes the point that some of the graffiti work on freight cars could actually be considered "art" because of the skill required to create such a thing. That person will be lambasted as a proponent of desecrating other's property simply for having the nerve to day the tagger has artistic talent...EVEN if they opened their remarks with, "I don't condone painting property that doesn't belong to you but the person who made this genuinely has talent"... Shake well and serve....three days later...locked thread.

I'd wager this topic typically is almost as contentious as, "What makes a person a REAL model railroader?"

Ralph Wrote:I'd wager this topic typically is almost as contentious as, "What makes a person a REAL model railroader?"

I'm convinced you're all imaginary!

Certainly, model railroaders like the kind on the big blue can't be real. They're too good.

Guess I'm living under a rock ....haven't seen either of those topics discussed before ......I remember about 10 years ago on RRL there were two "hot" topics , one concerned nailholes in wood and is a pinhead too big for HO when making nailholes in boards ......no really , I'm not kidding . The other was about a particular wood stain ....I'm thinking Sprucewood stain ??? .....or something like that . The argument was over how realistically it depicted weathered wood . Seeing grown men argue about those world changing topics was so funny I damn near spit my coffee on the keyboard .
I'm wouldn't diss anyone for doing the graffiti thing on their own layout ....won't do it mine but so what ? If they want to paint their Shay's pink I wouldn't mind ........well maybe that's a stretch , purple would be way better .

I get by the graffiti on my Summerset Ry by modeling 94/95..

If one is modeling modern times and trying to faithfully model the prototype I'm sad to say the modeler will need graffiti.