Full Version: doctorwayne's Get off yer duff Challenge (Part I)
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e-paw Wrote:.... With two tenders and two sets of drivers, she's a beast and a half.

Well, she'll run quite a way into an unpowered siding - maybe I should add pick-ups to the caboose, too. Misngth


Charlie B Wrote:The traction problem is probably plugged sanders. Misngth
Charlie

You might be right, Charlie...the second photo on page one of this thread shows the forward sand box filled with lead. Eek Crazy

I did replace the original drawbar, as its front end pivoted with the rear engine, causing a lot of trouble on curves...either outright derailments of the tender and/or locomotive or causing the front end truck of the tender to lift off the rails. I had originally made a new drawbar that mounted beneath the rear of the cab, but instead went with the factory-supplied one, figuring perhaps it was designed to minimise problems. I soon found out that it performed very poorly with the closer coupling of the tender, and, after replacing it with the short rear-mounted one, tracking is much improved.

Wayne
THAT !!!!!, is some very nice work !! Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Big Grin
Thanks, Pete! It's great to see you back here. Thumbsup

I've been working to get this locomotive performing better, but it has several problems. F'rinstance, almost every time it backs up, the trailing truck derails, which often derails the rear engine, too...the modified (shortened) trailing truck is attached to the rear of the rear engine. I removed a sight-block from the underframe, which helped somewhat, and a spring between the mounting boss of the trailing truck and the mounting point has pretty-well cleared up that issue.

I also found that on some curves, the vestibule extension on the front of the main tender strikes its counterpart on the rear of the cab. The result is that the front end of the tender is lifted off the rails, and the tender begins to roll over - not good when the bunker is filled with loose "coal" (actually coke breeze - very fine steelmaking coke, which is probably as dirty as real coal and probably even more abrasive).
I've cut down the height of the vestibule on the tender, and temporarily removed a rubber diaphragm which was used to visually close the gap between loco and tender, but it looks like I'm going to have to make a new, and slightly longer drawbar. This will increase that unprototypical gap, and I'll have to see what will serve best to overcome that.

I also tested the locomotive without the auxilliary tender, and its pulling ability was marginally improved. I then re-adjusted the pressure of the wheel wipers installed on all tender wheels, but it's difficult to get consistent light pressure without losing contact completely.
I also tested the locomotive without any tender, and got a measured drawbar pull of 4.7oz. This isn't great, but much better than it has when both tenders are coupled on. My modified Bachmann Consolidations put out approximately 2.9oz., so the 4.7 is pretty-much in line with what I would expect. It just now occurred to me that if I were to make the 5303 into a tank engine, I could get a lot more weight on the drivers and lose the additional drag created by those two tenders. Misngth

I'll continue to tweak this thing, but it looks more and more like it's heading for a career in static display. I've enjoyed the build, more or less, but regret the money spent for a locomotive that doesn't perform up to needed standards, and doesn't really fit the theme of the rest of the motive power roster, either.

Wayne
Your kitbash work here is inspirational .

I'm going to have to return to these pages when I get ready to do an old project I have in mind,....making a C&O H7 from a plastic loco.

C&O H7 loco, HO scale, in modern plastic
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/30786
Quote:Have there ever been any manufacturers that have considered making the 'massive' C&O H7 in plastic rather than just brass?...HO scale

I had a fellow who at one time was going to kit-bash one of my Proto 2-8-8-2 into an H7 lookalike, But it fell thru. And I wanted mine to utilize a vandy tender

Just found this Youtube video of an O scale one,....what a sound !, What a brute !
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9DdHckE42I">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9DdHckE42I</a><!-- m -->

[Image: C%26O%20H7.jpg]

Brian
I was getting a little ahead of myself trying to figure how to adapt the Bachmann vandy tenders to run behind my H7 kitbash.... (and my Mountain locos)


Quote:Adapt Bachmann Vandy Tenders to Run Behind Other Engines

This idea has surfaced as I attempt to kit bash a Proto2K Heritage 2-8-8-2 loco to look like a C&O H7 loco with the vandy tender option.

I have 2 tenders I would consider using with this loco,...a VC-16 and a VC-12, both of them those very nice ones made by Bachmann. I have already modified one of my VC-16 tenders to mate up with the Proto2K loco;......I carved out a slot in the front of the tender so that it accepts the stock draw-bar of the Proto2K loco.

Here is my basic thought process on the tender and sound situation. I thought I could take one of my Bachmann VC-16 tenders and one of the VC-12 tenders and put the sound decoder and the speakers in each. (I have in mind a dual hi-bass speaker installation in each one). I could then run either of these tenders behind the 'H-7 Proto2K loco, AND behind the various Mountain locos I have ( I have several Bachmann ones and several IHC ones).

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum...post455315
Welcome to Big Blue, Brian.

That certainly is one monster of a locomotive! I can't see that it would be all that difficult to build, though. Perhaps start with the Proto 2-8-8-2, just for the proper wheel arrangement. Pretty-well all of the detail parts are available from either Cal-scale (Bowser) or Precision Scale. Any necessary changes to the boiler or cab, even the cylinders for that matter, could be done in styrene. I believe that Bachmann had a long Vanderbilt tender - should be able to get one from them or perhaps from e-bay or the like. Modifications to the tender, if needed, could be done in styrene, too.

By the way: many are not aware of how extensive the Bowser/Cal-Scale catalogue of parts actually is. Forget the little yellow folder that Cal-Scale used to put out. Bowser has literally racks of brass detail parts, many of which were originally made for the manufacturers of brass locomotives. It's well worth a trip to Montoursville, and only 250 miles for me.

Wayne
(04-13-2017, 12:54 PM)doctorwayne Wrote: [ -> ]......


As I learned with the Seaboard boxcar in Part III of my Challenge, even repeated applications of Solvaset will not settle the rivet decals well and I had several instances where entire strips of rivets would fall off, even with careful handling.  Once all the rivets seemed to at least be staying in place (but with upturned edges and lots of silvering and bubbles, both indications of poor adhesion), I very carefully applied MEK to each river strip and tread plate decal.  This requires a light and rapid pass, using a fairly small brush to avoid carrying too much solvent at one time.  Where areas are missed on the first pass, go back a few minutes later to apply more, so that there's no excess accumulation of it:  if the area remains wet for more than a few seconds, the individual rivets (tiny blobs of resin) will separate from the decal film.  I purposely applied the rivet decals on unpainted styrene, most of it not at all glossy due to sanding.  While such a surface does encourage silvering (trapped air), the bare styrene seems to react, along with the decal film, to create a much better bond.  I'm tempted to say that the rivet decals are cemented in place.


Wayne

A question about the MEK adhesive & its cure time?
Is there a brand of MEK that you use?
Is that the same sort of adhesive that Tenax-7r use to be?

In a lengthy discussion on another forum the very adhesives were cited, particularly replacements for Tenax-7R. I recall using this adhesive quite a bit when I first re-entered the hobby,...upon high recommendations by a number of experienced persons. Its set up time was VERY quick and it flowed into the small spaces just great.

Someone recommended I give Ambroid Pro-Weld a try. I did but I found that it did NOT have as fast a set up time.

More recently that discussion on MRH brought up these points,..if I recall properly. That MEK was very haphazardly to our health, and they made a convincing case that we should use Ethyl Acetate. I perhaqsed a can, and had occasion to use it on some small spot welds recently. So far my observations are that it acts more like the Pro-Weld product rather than the Tenax product, in that it does not set up near as fast.

When I read your observation above I got the impression that you needed a product that set up very quickly? What particular product did you use??
(05-22-2017, 10:47 PM)doctorwayne Wrote: [ -> ] 


I'll continue to tweak this thing, but it looks more and more like it's heading for a career in static display.  I've enjoyed the build, more or less, but regret the money spent for a locomotive that doesn't perform up to needed standards, and doesn't really fit the theme of the rest of the motive power roster, either.

Wayne
That's a real shame
Here in Canada, government regulations resulted in some sort of alterations to the make-up of lacquer thinner, which had been a very useful substitute for Testors' liquid cement.  It had pretty-much the same odour, and similar properties as far as bonding styrene to styrene, and bought by the quart or gallon, was considerably cheaper. 

The bastardised version of lacquer thinner is still useful for thinning paints such as Floquil, ScaleCoat, and SMP's Accupaint, but useless for bonding styrene.

Based on some posts touting MEK as a good substitute, I bought some.  For gluing styrene, it works well, although it does evapourate much more quickly than the original lacquer thinner, and one of the components in it seems to be the culprit, as leaving the container (I use what was originally the Testors square bottle with brush-in-cap) open too long during use renders the product less effective. 
While the quick bonding is very useful for most applications, cementing large items together poses some difficulties, as by the time you've applied a coat of MEK to the second surface, that on the first surface has already dried.....I'm speaking of areas greater than, f'rinstance, a square foot.

I bought my MEK at a Sherwin-Williams distributor....not one of their paint stores for the general public, although they may carry it - but an outlet which is mostly for contractors and businesses, I think.  At the time, it seemed to me to be the logical place to find it.  A gallon (a measly U.S. gallon, too) was, if I recall correctly, about $32.00 (in our measly Canadian currency). 
When I returned there to buy another gallon, I enquired about lacquer thinner regarding its now uselessness as a cement for styrene, but the salesperson couldn't offer much on whether or not what they were selling was the now useless version or the more potent original.  I needed some to use as paint thinner, so took a chance and bought a gallon. 
When I got home, the first thing I did was try it on some styrene scraps, and it seemed to make a decent bond, although I've not really had much time to explore that more fully.  The lacquer thinner was somewhat cheaper than the MEK.  When I have an opportunity, I'll explore its usefulness a little more and report my findings.

As for the 5303, I need to alter the stuff between the back of the cab and the first tender, as there is some interference on some curves.  I may remove the wipers from the auxilliary tender, or change the ones on both tenders to wipers made from Kadee centering springs, as they offer less rolling resistance.  Currently, there are too many other projects ongoing to worry about that one.

Wayne
(10-27-2017, 03:57 PM)doctorwayne Wrote: [ -> ]Welcome  to Big Blue, Brian.

That certainly is one monster of a locomotive!  I can't see that it would be all that difficult to build, though.  Perhaps start with the Proto 2-8-8-2, just for the proper wheel arrangement.  Pretty-well all of the detail parts are available from either Cal-scale (Bowser) or Precision Scale.  Any necessary changes to the boiler or cab, even the cylinders for that matter, could be done in styrene.  I believe that Bachmann had a long Vanderbilt tender - should be able to get one from them or perhaps from e-bay or the like.  Modifications to the tender, if needed, could be done in styrene, too.

By the way:  many are not aware of how extensive the Bowser/Cal-Scale catalogue of parts actually is.  Forget the little yellow folder that Cal-Scale used to put out.  Bowser has literally racks of brass detail parts, many of which were originally made for the manufacturers of brass locomotives.  It's well worth a trip to Montoursville, and only 250 miles for me.

Wayne

Is this still the case? ....are these parts still available from those sources??
(10-12-2021, 10:41 AM)railandsail Wrote: [ -> ]Is this still the case? ....are these parts still available from those sources??

Well, due to all this pandemic stuff, I haven't been able to enter the U.S. for some time now.   I don't recall when I was last there...maybe May in 2019, but if not then, probably in October of 2018.

I miss going to English's Model Railroad Supply in Montoursville, but I miss even more seeing my friends in Ohio and Pennsylvania. 
The last time I was in Montoursville, there were racks and racks of roll-outs, with brass (and some plastic) detail items.  There were water pumps and air pumps similar, but not identical....made probably for brass steam loco builders to represent a specific version from Elesco, for instance, that might be used only on one specific loco from one particular builder.
If you had a specific locomotive in mind, there was likely the proper appliance for it on one of those racks, and I have no reason to think that that situation has changed.

When I'm able to visit friends in Ohio, it's approximately a 250 mile drive from my home here in southern Ontario, and when I leave Ohio, I often drive to Montoursville...another 250 miles.  After spending a few hours there (there's lots to see besides the detail parts) it's another 250 miles to get back home. 

I generally enjoy the driving, and each destination makes the drive even more worthwhile.  I'm hoping to be able to do that entire drive in November, but there's not yet any guarantee that the U.S. border will open, or that a nearby friend might wish to come along, or that SWMBO will agree that it's okay for me to make the trip, with or without a friend.

I don't know where you're located, Brian, but if you want detail parts, I consider it well-worth the drive if it's a reasonable distance, in your opinion. 

If that's not the case, but you know exactly what you want, I might be able to help - that's contingent on you knowing exactly what you want (and that Bowser has it in-stock), and that I'm permitted to make that trip.  We can probably discuss this privately later.

Wayne
Hi Doc,
I live in St Augustine FL now so that would be a loooong trip.

I had not been back to the BigBlue forum in quite some time, and I came back to post a question about those car truck stabilizers. when I saw that photo of some of your work adding on all those brass details to plastic steam engines it 're-inspired' me to think back about big C&O engine I was interested in.

That offer to look for items for me was very generous,...thank you. At present I am no were near doing that project. It has taken me a lot longer just to try and get my new double deck 'layout in a shed' up and running. I'm doing it all on my own, so things don't move along with great speed,...particularly the electrical wiring stuff.

The curiosity about those detail parts resulted from my observations that there appear to be much fewer dealers/sellers at train shows displaying such items. And I think the number of manufactures of such detail items is on the decline? Could this be because newer model train folks entering the hobby are not interested, nor in need, of such detail parts, or not steam engine fans???  Will the supply of such items dwindle into non-existence?

I read the 'about us' section of English's website, and saw where the founder had passed away. Luckily he had a couple of sons who appear to have taken on the reins.

Hopefully i will get a chance to do that kitbash one of these days, but my advancing age, and my desire to get my new layout up and running will be a factor,...plus I have quiet a number of locos I need to get ready for DCC, and thats another barrier I need learn, or get help with.

I'm glad to hear you are doing OK
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