I'm working on a small 1x4' shelf switching layout. The layout is coming along well & I'm pleased with it. All of its turnouts are either made by Peco or Hornby*, except one, which is a Y turnout made by Atlas. I'm having problems with the latter -- all of my newer locos pass through this turnout OK, but I'm having trouble with my older ones. The older ones either derail or stall as soon as they touch the guard rail of this Atlas Y turnout. As soon as they hit the guard rail, you can see their wheels rise up as if they're trying to drive over the guard rail.

My theory is that, b/c the wheels/flanges of these older locos are coarser, they are too thick to pass between the rail and the guard rail. As a result, the wheels either get stuck or get pushed up over the guard rail. To solve this, should I try to slightly widen the space between the rail & the guard rail, or should I lightly sand down this plastic guard rail? Just want to check first before I possibly wreck this turnout with my surgery. Thanks in advance.

Rob

*(FYI, this is a British layout, which is why I've ended up using some Hornby track. Hornby & Peco track and turnouts are excellent, but I've had problems with Atlas turnouts several years ago. In recent years, they've seemed to be better, so I thought I'd be OK to use one now.)

Just googling and I found this:
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FYI, this is a code 100 Atlas turnout and I'm confident that these older locos are in gauge, as they run very well everywhere else. Also, these are all steam engines -- not sure why anyone would want diesels anyway?

Thanks, Rob

I had problems on two Atlas crossings with the rail/guard rail clearance. Some engines behave like your. I widened the gap between rail and guard rail and solved the problem.

ps. This is another Atlas crossing problem as the one we are discussing in the Freelance 2018-1 thread

faraway Wrote:I had problems on two Atlas crossings with the rail/guard rail clearance. Some engines behave like your. I widened the gap between rail and guard rail and solved the problem.

ps. This is another Atlas crossing problem as the one we are discussing in the Freelance 2018-1 thread

Thanks, Reinhard. I will carefully try to widen that space then, probably by lightly sanding it. I'll also check out that other thread. Cheers, Rob

Hello Rob,

do you own one?

This check gage has helped me to detect out of standard deviations which had caused in fact some of mysterious derailments.
Since i own this gage it is possible to make quick checks of rail, turnouts and wheels. After checking you know exactly where you have to adjust the stuff.

My two €ents.

Schraddel Wrote:Hello Rob,

do you own one?

This check gage has helped me to detect out of standard deviations which had caused in fact some of mysterious derailments.
Since i own this gage it is possible to make quick checks of rail, turnouts and wheels. After checking you know exactly where you have to adjust the stuff.

My two €ents.

Thanks... Yes, I do own one and will have to find where I placed it! However, I could see this being helpful to check the spacing between the rails, but would it be useful re checking the guard rail?

At any rate, I have just lightly sanded the guard rail, and some of my older locos now pass through it OK, but not all of them. I'll keep tinkering with this but I might end up facing two choices -- either to live with the layout the way it is (and not being able to use certain locos on it) or by replacing this Atlas turnout with a Peco or Hornby one. I might end up choosing the latter, especially before I start ballasting.

Rob:
I've had problems with British locos and Atlas switches for over 50 years. Things may be getting better, but the older locos will still hate NMRA standard switches.

The problem is in 2 places. The flange is too wide and rides up on the guard rail. The back-to-back is too narrow and the wheel pinches the guard rails on opposite sides and then rides up on them. (if you're that type, the check gauge is narrow as well.)
I also have problems with old TriAng locos on Peco finescale points.
You may want to check the flangeways against the Peco ones. Probably everything would need widening.

What size Y is it? I may have some spare code 100 or code 70 I can bring to GBTS.

BR60103 Wrote:Rob:
I've had problems with British locos and Atlas switches for over 50 years. Things may be getting better, but the older locos will still hate NMRA standard switches.

The problem is in 2 places. The flange is too wide and rides up on the guard rail. The back-to-back is too narrow and the wheel pinches the guard rails on opposite sides and then rides up on them. (if you're that type, the check gauge is narrow as well.)
I also have problems with old TriAng locos on Peco finescale points.
You may want to check the flangeways against the Peco ones. Probably everything would need widening.

What size Y is it? I may have some spare code 100 or code 70 I can bring to GBTS.

Thanks, David. Yes, that is what appears to be happening re the guard rails, etc. Locos that were made in the 70s and 80s seem to be the main culprits. I've tried one HD loco which seems "OK" on this turnout.

Just offhand, I think it's medium radius turnout -- I forget exactly, but it's NOT the more gradual/shallow-angled one. It is definitely Code 100 though. Thanks for offering to bring some to the GBTS! That would be great; look forward to seeing you there.

Cheers, Rob

Rob,
is this the case what is happen with the older rolling stock?


Peco Code83 US #8 turnout and Electrotren works standard set of wheels, pizzacutter type.
The gage will detect this too. There are the 2 small grooves on the left side lettered "WHEELS".

Schraddel Wrote:Rob,
is this the case what is happen with the older rolling stock?


Peco Code83 US #8 turnout and Electrotren works standard set of wheels, pizzacutter type.
The gage will detect this too. There are the 2 small grooves on the left side lettered "WHEELS".

Thanks ... maybe. I might take some pics or videos.
Rob

Good news. I just spent some time sanding away at the guard rail, thus widening the space between the rail and the guard rail, and my older locos are working much better now. The worst case scenario is that I totally butcher up this turnout! but all seems fine now.

So, the Atlas turnouts must be more modern or fine scale than their Peco or Hornby counterparts?

Rob
Atlas track has been made to NMRA standards since time immemorial -- at least the 50s, probably the 30s. British manufacturers came up with their own ideas. There were BRMSB standards for "scale" modellers, but TriAng were toys. Hornby Dublo weren't sure.
The ideal solution would be to spread the wheels by a mm -- my Princess has a back to back of 13.5 mm while my b2b gauge is 14.5. But this gives 1mm of slop in the wheels. Also moving the wheels is beyond my skills. You might still find the flange jamming in the frog -- happened with some old all-rail switches.
Stick to Peco code 100 for this set of rolling stock.

BR60103 Wrote:Rob
Atlas track has been made to NMRA standards since time immemorial -- at least the 50s, probably the 30s. British manufacturers came up with their own ideas. There were BRMSB standards for "scale" modellers, but TriAng were toys. Hornby Dublo weren't sure.
The ideal solution would be to spread the wheels by a mm -- my Princess has a back to back of 13.5 mm while my b2b gauge is 14.5. But this gives 1mm of slop in the wheels. Also moving the wheels is beyond my skills. You might still find the flange jamming in the frog -- happened with some old all-rail switches.
Stick to Peco code 100 for this set of rolling stock.

Interesting. Thanks for this info, David.

As mentioned, I've done some sanding and the turnout is generally working better.

But I'm finding it weird that now some of my newer locos (say my Hornby Railroad Jinty bought new 4-5 years ago) is having trouble on these points, while several of my older ones are now fine. It's no longer breaking down along old/new lines.

It's a small layout and I now, at least, have a batch of locos that I can use on it.

Rob
Back in the 60s, we had problems with NMRA (North American) wheels on TriAng points. Because the NMRA wheels were wider spaced, they could slide across the frog and go down the wrong side of the vee. My friend carved the vee a bit so that the wheels would stay on the right side.
The newer Brit standards are closer to NMRA -- even advertised as RP25.

I've popped 2 wyes into my GBTS boxes. They both may be older than you are.