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+--- Thread: GEC's Layout Progress (/showthread.php?tid=108)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Amtrak X995 - 08-11-2011
Hi
here some ideas and suggestions from "overseas"..
We didn`t use any joiners-never ever.....we solder under every track cables for feeding track power (dcc).
So we have never have problems with current.
We glue the track end together with acc glue, file it and paint, if wanted, you van youse bolt plattes tu glue on.
Even on our turnouts we have polarised frogs AND the switch blade , we removed all cooper contacts on the shinohara/walthers turnouts for eliminated sources of failures.
For cleaning tracks we use "your" goo gone cleaner fluid, it evaporate after use, no marks, not agressive to the colors and balast.
@GEC in your case i would remove all from your old layout, c`mon, try to use good (ply)wood for base ( to try save money here is wrong, to turn to account in a few years).
Our wood is solid carpenters work. we have spend much money for this, but it will work well after many exebitions, no humidity problem, cause the bottom parts are all painted with clear coat.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-11-2011
Russ Bellinis Wrote:Is the track where the problem occurs straight or curved? All locomotives need some sort of flexible pick up connection between the wheels and the decoder/motor to allow it to go around curves. I suspect that you may be losing contact somewhere in the electrical circuit as it goes around a curve.
More often on straight than curved, but the curved section that tends to loose power is actually on a Peco switch (go figure,
) right about when the locomotive is straddling the frog and the points. I've provided a map with red lines marking the trouble areas for loosing power. Its a little old (not entirely reflecting the recent yard change, but everything on the mainline except the outermost curves are flex track. Its also important to note that though whole sections (between the crossover on the "top" of the layout) are red, trains die in these zones randomly, and the locomotive cen be anywhere in them when this happens.
![[Image: powerproblems3dlayoutvi.jpg]](http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1530/powerproblems3dlayoutvi.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-11-2011
tetters Wrote:Sounds like a plan. Good Luck! I hope you find out what the problem is.
When using the clipper oil, you don't need a lot of it. The application on the rail heads is almost barely there if you get what I mean.
Ok, I'll have to give it a try! it certainly can't hurt. In the meantime, I should probably clean all the wheels on everything anyway, i don't think i've done a "layout wide" cleaning of all the rolling stock in some time. Probably could weather some things while i'm at it.
Lester Perry Wrote:When you said Atlas switch it threw up a red flag for me. Check continuity on all rails including the short pieces coming of of the frog. I no longer use Atlas switches as I have found them to be problematic with this.
Power is good coming through the atlas switches. I haven't expirienced any problems I can attribute to them. I'll keep an eye on them though, since that doesn't mean they aren't going to be trouble in the future. Is it the little metal bits on the bottoms that cause the grief?
Amtrak X995 Wrote:Hi
here some ideas and suggestions from "overseas"..
We didn`t use any joiners-never ever.....we solder under every track cables for feeding track power (dcc).
So we have never have problems with current.
We glue the track end together with acc glue, file it and paint, if wanted, you van youse bolt plattes tu glue on.
Even on our turnouts we have polarised frogs AND the switch blade , we removed all cooper contacts on the shinohara/walthers turnouts for eliminated sources of failures.
For cleaning tracks we use "your" goo gone cleaner fluid, it evaporate after use, no marks, not agressive to the colors and balast.
At this point, I pretty much just use rail joiners to keep the rails aligned and together. the connectivity is a bonus. As soon as I get the rest of the track down, i'm probably going to just solder wires to the rail where ever i percieve a need for it.
Our club uses goo-gone, but i tend to just scrub everything down by hand with a bright boy, followed by some old Lionel track cleaner i have. when that runs out, i use the goo-gone.
Quote:@GEC in your case i would remove all from your old layout, c`mon, try to use good (ply)wood for base ( to try save money here is wrong, to turn to account in a few years).
Our wood is solid carpenters work. we have spend much money for this, but it will work well after many exebitions, no humidity problem, cause the bottom parts are all painted with clear coat.
My layout's benchwork is in pretty good shape, and as much as i'd like to remove everything on the layout and start over, 4x8 is just to small. If i could, i would expand the width so i could get larger curves, and maybe I would make half the layout a staging yard, and then build an addition to make up for the lost layout space.
Something like the layout below would be good. In fact, i'd be mostly OK with this plan as it is, except for the fact that I would prefer a double track mainline (not really a problem), and the curves are to small. The staging could be bigger to, but i don't really have a choice. I could probably add an L-shaped addition that could either feature a passenger terminal or additional freight. I could continuous run my large freights and passenger trains If i wanted.
The bottom line though, is in september i start school again, and i won't be finished with school until spring 2013. I will have no summer off this year, and breaks are very few and far in between (the advantage is that i get a Masters Degree in Biotechnology in two years). I'm not sure i'd have time to build a new layout, and the truth is i'd rather have a crappy layout than no layout!
![[Image: summerwinter2009camerad.jpg]](http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5575/summerwinter2009camerad.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - shortliner - 08-12-2011
GEC - There was a layout away back in MR called Conrails Hallsville Pa. by my friend Nick Palette, which might fit your requirements.
a PM with your email will get you a copy
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-14-2011
First up, dramatic improvement in reliability today. On Friday, i picked up the remaining track sections, plus an extra, as well as some Ribbon Rail track gauges. they didn't have any in 22"r, but they did for 18"r and 20"r. Using these, i set to work adjusting my inner mainline.
The most shocking thing was that many parts of my track that i suspected were to tight were in fact broader than i thought. Conversely, there were definitely spots that were TOO tight. I pulled the track nails, and realigned everything.
While i was at it, I added 20" easements to the 18" tracks. The trains appear to be running smoothly. i set up some trouble making cars behind my SD9 and sent them through all the tracks and crossovers at various speeds, with almost no problems. the SD9 jumped the track once in the middle of no where, but i haven't been able to get it to do it again (even when sending the p2k into Light speed), so I'm assuming it was a fluke.
my club has a 24" ribbon rail gauge, and i think they have a 22" one around somewhere, so i might borrow them, rather than buy them outright. I might try and put in a 24" easement ahead of the 22" sections.
Until i get the gauges, i might hold up on laying the rest of the track, but at least i do have the track on hand.
I'm planning on making a video of the new track work.
Also, the problematic locomotive has been revealed to have deceptively dirty wheels. I had kept hitting it with the orange clean on a paper towel, and the "black" grime came off, but apparently the wheels still had stuff on them. I just managed to remove the wheels and clean them, and now they are shiny again. I'm banking on this making my GP15-1 function better.
shortliner Wrote:GEC - There was a layout away back in MR called Conrails Hallsville Pa. by my friend Nick Palette, which might fit your requirements.
a PM with your email will get you a copy
That certainly is the idea i was going for! For those who do not know the layout, it is essentially very similar to the layout above, but with staging on the "curved" end of the layout, instead of across the back.
![[Image: hallsvilleconraillayout.jpg]](http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8587/hallsvilleconraillayout.jpg)
If it were double tracked, and space for a commuter train or two, it would be great. I figure the minimum size should be four 85' cars to a track. this is slightly longer than a three car locomotive hauled push-pull, and is convenient since many of my MU cars are married pairs.
I'll have to keep on coming up with methods for fitting this sort of thing into my space and prototype preferences.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - shortliner - 08-14-2011
That layout was cut from a 6' x4' board -2 pieces 2' x 4' for the ends and 2 "Joiners" of 4' x 1' - If you have the room you could cut an 8' x 4' to give another 2 "Joiners" of 4' x1', or 4 off 2' x 1' to widen the curves and a little in the length. It all depends on the way you decide to assemble the boards, and the space you have available.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-15-2011
I think i've hit a different sort of problem with my Athearn Genesis GP15-1. Does anyone know what the wheels are actually made of? I clean up the wheels with a bright boy, but when i did, i notices a discolored area along where the rails would contact the wheels. Instead of the usual nickel silver look, it had a more coppery color, and it almost seemed pitted. The locomotive runs fine now, but i have never seen anything like that on my Atlas, P2k, Bachmann, or other Athearn locomotives.
Perhaps this is the source of the weird problems with the GP15-1s i keep hearing about?
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - ocalicreek - 08-15-2011
I have replaced early Athearn wheels with Nickel Silver wheels from NWSL. It was one of the first loco 'upgrades' I ever attempted and it was very easy. The result was a set of wheels very easy to keep clean, and increased reliability overall.
But that said, I'm not sure what type of wheels you have on the Genesis units. Both my upgrades were Athearn Blue Box diesels from the 80's with the old sintered wheels that were graphite-colored.
Galen
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - bdw9535 - 08-15-2011
GEC,
After reading your post checked the two on the layout and neither has the discolored wheels. I clean my wheels with denatured alcohol on a paper towel and run the loco over it. Also use it to clean the track. Only problem I have had with the Athearn GP 15-1s was one was operating very herky jerky( for a lack of a better word). After pulling the shell off found that two of the wires to the board that have the little black clips had bad connections. Soldered them instead of the clips and that solved the problem.
Bruce
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - FCIN - 08-15-2011
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:I think i've hit a different sort of problem with my Athearn Genesis GP15-1. Does anyone know what the wheels are actually made of? I clean up the wheels with a bright boy, but when i did, i notices a discolored area along where the rails would contact the wheels. Instead of the usual nickel silver look, it had a more coppery color, and it almost seemed pitted. The locomotive runs fine now, but i have never seen anything like that on my Atlas, P2k, Bachmann, or other Athearn locomotives.GEC;
Perhaps this is the source of the weird problems with the GP15-1s i keep hearing about?
I finally got my Athearn GP15-1 running the other day. Not sure what I did to get it running other than I found the wheels on the rear truck were all out of gauge (too narrow) and the rear truck was not supplying power to the model. Once I corrected the wheel gauge, it started running just fine, and has continued to run okay.
But I have noticed that copper color where the wheels contact the rail. You don't suppose that the wheels are brass with a nickel silver plating do you? Sure has got me wondering. If this loco was going to be my main power for the layout, perhaps I'd look into replacing the wheel sets. For now, I'll just run it off and on and see what happens.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-15-2011
ocalicreek Wrote:I have replaced early Athearn wheels with Nickel Silver wheels from NWSL. It was one of the first loco 'upgrades' I ever attempted and it was very easy. The result was a set of wheels very easy to keep clean, and increased reliability overall.
But that said, I'm not sure what type of wheels you have on the Genesis units. Both my upgrades were Athearn Blue Box diesels from the 80's with the old sintered wheels that were graphite-colored.
Galen
I LOVE those old wheels. I know I have to replace them (they get black after two or three laps on the layout), but they are fantastic for traction. My E60CP locomotives have those old types, and they cannot be stopped. It seesm like the more dirt they pick up, the better they pull, until they can no longer maintain an electrical connection. Nickel Silver wheels seem so much more slippery. Not a problem on a freight where i can justify adding an extra locomotive, but on heavy passenger trains every bit of grip counts.
bdw9535 Wrote:GEC,
After reading your post checked the two on the layout and neither has the discolored wheels. I clean my wheels with denatured alcohol on a paper towel and run the loco over it. Also use it to clean the track. Only problem I have had with the Athearn GP 15-1s was one was operating very herky jerky( for a lack of a better word). After pulling the shell off found that two of the wires to the board that have the little black clips had bad connections. Soldered them instead of the clips and that solved the problem.
Bruce
I haven't had the problem with my GP15-1, but I DO have that problem with an Athearn RTR RS2. its a more recent model, and i guess now they've totally abandoned the old metal clips (some of you rolling your eyes out there, but i haven't bought much in the way of Athearn locomotives in a while other than these being discussed
). The annoying part is apparently they still use the frame to pass electricity, and there is some sort of spade connector that screws in somewhere, but i can't find it for the life of me. It looks like it should go between the frame and the deck just behind the cab, but i can't get this to fit together without jamming or warping the shell.
FCIN Wrote:GEC;
I finally got my Athearn GP15-1 running the other day. Not sure what I did to get it running other than I found the wheels on the rear truck were all out of gauge (too narrow) and the rear truck was not supplying power to the model. Once I corrected the wheel gauge, it started running just fine, and has continued to run okay.
But I have noticed that copper color where the wheels contact the rail. You don't suppose that the wheels are brass with a nickel silver plating do you? Sure has got me wondering. If this loco was going to be my main power for the layout, perhaps I'd look into replacing the wheel sets. For now, I'll just run it off and on and see what happens.
This is exactly what i was thinking. I would not be surprised if they are plated at all, but then aren't most wheels like that? Still, I might think about getting new wheel sets. I'll have to take a picture of the problem spots on the wheel.
As far as the wheel gauge goes, i didn't check that before i removed the loco from the layout to be worked on, but i definitely checked the wheels before i put them back in, just to make sure they didn't shift any while i was working on them.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Russ Bellinis - 08-16-2011
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:This is exactly what i was thinking. I would not be surprised if they are plated at all, but then aren't most wheels like that? Still, I might think about getting new wheel sets. I'll have to take a picture of the problem spots on the wheel.
J-B wheel sets are solid nickel silver. NWSL wheels sets used to be Nickel plating on brass back in the 1980's. I haven't used them since the 1980's, but I have heard reports from people using them now that NWSL changed over to solid cast nickel silver instead of plating brass. I don't know what Athearn is now using for wheels, but if the plating has come off resulting in wheels that look like brass, I would replace them with either J-B's or NWSL.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 09-22-2011
Well, my classes have begun again, this time at a new school, in Philadelphia. While this is one of the better places for me to learn the secrets of life (being a Biotechnology Major), its just about sapped my free time. I get two days off, and have some time free, but half the week in in Philadelphia all day.
I did manage to bring in some new things.
no project progress. still need to re-lay the track on the outside curves of my layout, and wire in each section with fresh wiring.
I want to start building a 1979 version of the Broadway Limited's New York Section. I was able to pick up this Slumber-coach for cheap.
![[Image: p9211032.jpg]](http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1318/p9211032.jpg)
Also picked up this new gondola. Its an NJ Transit gondola with CNJ heritage.
![[Image: p9211035.jpg]](http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1770/p9211035.jpg)
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 09-29-2011
I'm having a minor layout identity crisis.
i am unsure of which prototype i prefer, New Jersey DOT or SEPTA. Ideally, a Northeast Corridor layout would solve all these problems (they've all run on all portions of the NEC for one reason or another), but thats to big for this space!
Recent offerings of SEPTA models have made modeling such lines possible, and they may offer better opportunities for freights running on the same line as the commuter trains than does the NJ DOT stuff i've been trying to model.
these are my thoughts, input is welcome.
NJDOT former PRR/CNJ lines
Pros
- I already own 15+ Jersey Arrow III MU cars, and other Jersey Arrows may be had.
- The commuter operation I eventually want to model
- Wide vareity of rolling stock from ATSF, BN, CNJ, GN, PC, and others in various paint schemes and patches
cons
-very few RTR or kit NJ DOT equipment available. Most of it (U34CH, Comet 1 Push-pulls) operate only on former Erie Lackwanna lines.
-Many locomotives require complex custom paint jobs or difficult kitbashing to be completed. Most commuter cars are Resin kits or brass car sides. all of it is expensive
-Very little freight operations on the prototype outside of the Northeast Corridor. (could be a pro in terms of a small layout)
SEPTA Reading Division
Pros
-Simplified Catenary
-Interesting mix of freight and commuter traffic
-prototype trains no longer than 4 cars on average, even at peak.
-Recent HO scale SEPTA offerings are simpler kits and are more readily completed. Simple paint schemes and readily available decals
-Frequent SEPTA strikes result in very interesting lashups of MU cars sandwhiched between conrail diesels in commuter service
Cons
- I only own very few SEPTA models, not enough to make a full train (6 EMUs, 1 Silverliner IV, 2 Silverliner IIs, 3 Silverliner IIIs)
-Recent HO SEPTA equipment produced in limited runs for high prices. many models behind schedule for arrival on store shelves
-Nearly as difficult to obtain as NJ DOT models.
-While the Reading Division is a good prototype, it is far from the eventual Northeast Corridor model railroad I wish to build.
Re: GEC's Layout Progress - bdw9535 - 09-29-2011
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:and they may offer better opportunities for freights running on the same line as the commuter trains than does the NJ DOT stuff i've been trying to model.
G-E-C,
Not knowing much at all about commuter operations, have you looked at the NJ Transit AC Line from Winslow to Atlantic City. The Southern RR of NJ operates on this line to get it's freight into Pleasantville. You wouldn't be able to run your electrics but have seen a variety of NJDOT equiptment on this line.
Bruce