GEC's Layout Progress - Printable Version

GEC's Layout Progress - Printable Version

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Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Tyson Rayles - 07-09-2012

Looking good! Thumbsup

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - sailormatlac - 07-09-2012

You can't go against electric traction! I'm always amazed by your brass catenaries. Are they custom-made?

Matt

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 07-09-2012

sailormatlac Wrote:You can't go against electric traction! I'm always amazed by your brass catenaries. Are they custom-made?

Matt

Yes they are! I built them myself from brass structural shapes. I borrowed heavily from Andy Rubbo and Bill Kachel, who have already built impressive scale PRR electric layouts. I eventually plan to electrify the entire mainline and yard.

I actually started a whole thread on it forever ago, but I have since not done much work on the project. I'm thinking of building a small mock up with spare supplies I have just to get used to the construction process before I hang the wire on my layout. I also want to make a test bed for modular catenary set ups, so I might do this first before apply it to my layout.

<a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1976">viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1976</a>

Right now, though, its looking like it will take forever to get the wires hung. There is always something else to be done that prevents me from putting wire up, such as track maitenance, scenery, repairs, and in this case, a small addition to the layout.

Whats more, the two completed catenary structures are taller than normal, in order to bring the power transmission lines a save distanced over a highway overpass that WAS on the layout. The bridge had to be removed to make room for my new yard. However, there does not appear to be practical space to build a new overpass unless I really get creative with just how far I can span one "segment" of a highway bridge.

The bridge was originally supposed to imply the approach to the Outer Bridge Crossing or Goethals bridge in northern New Jersey (going into Staten Island), but I had just used the Rix overpass kit instead. I think if I went for a more realistic repersentation, it might be able to span the yard, but it would also be more work, and I have very little time between school a few months ago, and now an internship at an R&D Laboratory. Its probably going to have to wait.

Right now there are only three projects on my Radar- Finish the "safety zone" around the layout edges, repairing the fallen AC6000CW and cloning JWB's Arrow I kit, which has been in my house for WAY to long and its been bugging me to much. I appreciate the level of trust I was given for being a stranger on the internet, and every day I don't get that project done nags at me.

But anyways, Here are som Before and after photos of the bridge situation.

An overview of the layout prior to the yard reconstruction.

[Image: P4230045.jpg]

With the Bridge-

[Image: P5290152.jpg]

Without the Bridge-

[Image: P9210171.jpg]

There is an emptyness without the bridge, but on the other hand, the bridge supporsts frequently obscured good photographic angles.

Perhaps some other kind of structure might pass beneath the poles here? I can't think of anything practical though, Maybe a pedestrian overpass?

Looking back on the yard half, the "middle" support for the bridge had to be displaced to the additional trackage. You can already see the uneven spacing where I had to "stretch" the distance to the next support on the left.

[Image: P7060624.jpg]

As you can see here, the Yard tracks pretty much take up any place to put supports at a practical distance. The location of the "Far right" support can be seen as a "plywood" patch on the lower right of the photo. A support might be placed on the one side of the yard, but that would require a large bridge to gap that distance.

[Image: P5300729.jpg]

But anyway, back to the point

Unless I figure out what to do with this bridge, I won't be able to hang the wires since I don't know If i'm going to keep the poles the way they are, or try to rebuild them to be "shorter".

See? It will NEVER get done!

Its fun to dream though...

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Ralph - 07-09-2012

Good plan to build that shelf. Looks like you had excellent help! Thumbsup

Thanks for the overhead shot of the whole layout. Love all the shots of power!

Ralph

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - sailormatlac - 07-09-2012

Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:See? It will NEVER get done!

Its fun to dream though...

Ahaha! Watching picture back from 2007, I'm still running trains on fiber board in terms of scenery!! We move forward, then move back... always, always... learning as we process our ambitious and contradictory dreams!

Joke aside, your bridge, that seems to represent something built in the 60's should be rebuild with larger piles and higher structural beem. Seems like you used the Rix overpass kit that is nice for small and frail structures built around 1930's.

I would keep the bridge for visual separation. Your layout is small in a shape you can feel you don't travel from a borough to another. In this respect, keeping the bridge feels like a good idea. If build strong enough, it could be made in two supporting section you can lift if you need to take some pictures.

Look at real large highways, you'll be surprised how they can span large areas, especially over rails... Good old Google Earth is a cheap way to check that. You could build something real nice from 1/2" and 1/4" MDF board scraps you can get at a local hardware store for a few bucks. Paint them with cheap Krylon paint (I suggest their light beige grey that looks light real concrete) and, if you feel a little bit artistic, wash them with a good old 50-50 diluted black formula. Details can be added later on. I used sprues with wire to make drains. Looking at your beautiful handmade catenary, I'm sure it's not beyond your reach at all.

In my overpass, I used a lot of pillars, much more than the real thing, to hide the tunnel entrance:

[Image: Hedley014.jpg]

The prototype, over the yard entrance in Limoilou. Not in the picture is a part of the yard that actually runs under and parallel to the overpass. The main track cross the track at an odd angle. This exemple is taken is a city with little train traffic, I imagine you could find even more interesting stuff in NJ and NY.

[Image: r09q0030_photo_1.jpg]

The span is about 140 ft, so 19 inches in HO!!! More than you need my friend! Just make sure the girder doesn't look too frail. Rix overpass then to look like a pancake over long distance...

Hope this help!

Excellent work on your catenary. My prototype was an electric traction too, but I only represented both end of the line that were steam and diesel... However, I'd like to depict a few catenary at one station to show the true nature of the road...

BTW, I love your electric roster. It reminds me I have a very old athearn Virginian electric locomotive very similar to yours. These engines have lots of character!

Matt

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - sailormatlac - 07-09-2012

If I had to redo more concrete highway piles, I would laminate together 3/8" x 3" x 48" long board between two smaller 1/8 x 2-1/2" xx 48" MDF board. Then you cut them to the right height. Saves a lot of works and makes quickly nice sets of perfectly straight and strong piles.

Matt

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - jwb - 07-10-2012

GEC, I wouldn't worry about the Jersey Arrow kit -- it would just be in a closet in my place, so I figure it's doing some good with you. Get to it when you can!

I like several things about your plan, among them that the video you took last year shows it has a good, workable operating scheme. I also like your ability to put the kind of equipment I liked to see when I was riding the NEC back in college (but several generations back) onto a 4x8. Just a few structures and the catenary poles capture the basic atmosphere very, very well. I always appreciate your updates -- keep em coming!!

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - shortliner - 07-10-2012

Matt - Can I ask what you used for the decorative sidewall on the bridge, and the top railing supports
Cheers
Jack

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - sailormatlac - 07-10-2012

shortliner Wrote:Matt - Can I ask what you used for the decorative sidewall on the bridge, and the top railing supports
Cheers
Jack

Jack, for the decorative sidewall, I only laminated 0.2mm styrene sheet cut in assymetrical pattern and spaced by about 1mm according to the prototype. The railing was also scratchbuilt with styrene. I built my own rectangular section tubing from styrene and cut it in section. Honestly, it was tedious to glue and tedious to cut. I destroyed many of them, just handling them. I would recommend using rectangular styrene or brass shapes instead! More efficient and far less frustrating.

The concrete divider between lanes was done by sawing at various angles a strip of 1/4 MDF... We lost it during transportation and my friend never wanted to make another one, too much affraid of losing a finger or two... Icon_lol

Hope it helps!

BTW, how far have you completed your nice NYC layout?

Matt

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - sailormatlac - 07-10-2012

Jack, you'll find a more information about the process her:

http://hedley-junction.blogspot.ca/2010/11/cover-this-hole-which-i-cannot-behold.html

Matt

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - shortliner - 07-11-2012

Matt - Many thanks - I have done a couple from MDF, Dowel rod, and Plastic extrusion mouldings - but I may need to do another shortly
Thanks again
Jack

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Mileswestern - 07-12-2012

Justin,

The thing that's always puzzled me in the many years I've watched you forever rebuild your layout is that it never meets your goals for nice, smooth curves or a station large enough to efficiently serve the beautiful passenger equipment you have so painstakingly (Comet cars anyone?) built over the years since I remember you posting on the original Gauge forever ago. You keep making small changes to an otherwise flawed layout. Plus you need some sort of fascia so it doesn't look as if the earth is floating on 3/4" of plywood. You might not have the space, time or inclination to start a new layout now, but you should improve your layout to truly showcase the great equipment you've been modeling! Cheers

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 07-12-2012

sailormatlac Wrote:
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:See? It will NEVER get done!

Its fun to dream though...

Ahaha! Watching picture back from 2007, I'm still running trains on fiber board in terms of scenery!! We move forward, then move back... always, always... learning as we process our ambitious and contradictory dreams!

Joke aside, your bridge, that seems to represent something built in the 60's should be rebuild with larger piles and higher structural beem. Seems like you used the Rix overpass kit that is nice for small and frail structures built around 1930's.

I would keep the bridge for visual separation. Your layout is small in a shape you can feel you don't travel from a borough to another. In this respect, keeping the bridge feels like a good idea. If build strong enough, it could be made in two supporting section you can lift if you need to take some pictures.

Look at real large highways, you'll be surprised how they can span large areas, especially over rails... Good old Google Earth is a cheap way to check that. You could build something real nice from 1/2" and 1/4" MDF board scraps you can get at a local hardware store for a few bucks. Paint them with cheap Krylon paint (I suggest their light beige grey that looks light real concrete) and, if you feel a little bit artistic, wash them with a good old 50-50 diluted black formula. Details can be added later on. I used sprues with wire to make drains. Looking at your beautiful handmade catenary, I'm sure it's not beyond your reach at all.................

....................The span is about 140 ft, so 19 inches in HO!!! More than you need my friend! Just make sure the girder doesn't look too frail. Rix overpass then to look like a pancake over long distance...

Hope this help!

It does, but then the Northeast is notorious for small short bridges. There is a highway bridge over the Northeast Corridor that might work, but I'll still have to find a prototypical design to copy. I was thinking about trying to repersent the approaches to the Outerbridge Crossing (the original inspiration for the layout was the Perth Amboy area, where the Outerbridge crosses over the former PRR/CNJ New York & Long Branch, now the NJ Transit North Jersey Coastline). The Outerbridge is an older 1930s bridge, but it is built thicker. Unfortuneately, I suspect that the distance between spans on the approach is not much larger than the distance on the rix kits, even though the Outerbridge would be more substantial.

It also might be a more involved project-

[Image: 57649014.jpg]

Quote:Excellent work on your catenary. My prototype was an electric traction too, but I only represented both end of the line that were steam and diesel... However, I'd like to depict a few catenary at one station to show the true nature of the road...

BTW, I love your electric roster. It reminds me I have a very old athearn Virginian electric locomotive very similar to yours. These engines have lots of character!

Matt

If its Virginian, it probably is meant to be the same. I know that Lionel made an HO version of the E33 in a shortened form. I have two E33s (known on the Virginian as "EL-C").

I love the electric locomotives. Its not a very common prototype. There are a few modelers of American electric operations, but I like to think I have a pretty nice roster for the time period I've Chosen. I'm thinking the best Electrified layouts are Andy Rubbo's Northeast Corridor, Rick Abramhson's New Haven, and Bill Kachel's PRR set up. Each is pretty large and very well done with a good electric roster.

If I ever do get a larger electric layout built, I'm pretty confident in claiming I'm probably one of the only people doing the Northeast Corridor in the late 70s.

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 07-12-2012

jwb Wrote:GEC, I wouldn't worry about the Jersey Arrow kit -- it would just be in a closet in my place, so I figure it's doing some good with you. Get to it when you can!

I like several things about your plan, among them that the video you took last year shows it has a good, workable operating scheme. I also like your ability to put the kind of equipment I liked to see when I was riding the NEC back in college (but several generations back) onto a 4x8. Just a few structures and the catenary poles capture the basic atmosphere very, very well. I always appreciate your updates -- keep em coming!!

Alright, that makes me feel a little better. I just finished my application up for my Masters degree program, which means I now have the nights to myself (no more assignments or paper work for now). I've managed to scrape together enough cash that I think I can go ahead and purchase the supplies I need cast the body and floor.

Yes, my layout has improved functionally, and that is something I'm truly happy about. Not to long ago, the layout was fairly dysfunctional. Its not perfect for what I want to run, but it does get the job done. I do feel like I've taken a few steps back structure wise though. In particular, this Highway bridge, and the "American Hardware Supply" building did a fantastic job dividing the layout into quadrants.

This overhead shot is from 5 years ago (2007).

[Image: 73007045.jpg]

You can see the difference here, where the extra height of the building really obscured the other half of the layout, to the point where the catenary poles on the other side wouldn't necessarily be obvious.

[Image: 73007037.jpg]

Magic pan bakery, on the other hand, is a little less impressive, but as far as realistically making use of the track, it fits better. I suppose I could always swap the trains back to the "old" way with Protech plastics and American Hardware supply, but I'm not sure how well American Hardware supply fits the modern era, either, since its difficult to spot two 50' boxcars on its loading dock.

[Image: 8909modeltrainstuff029.jpg]

Re: GEC's Layout Progress - Green_Elite_Cab - 07-12-2012

Mileswestern Wrote:Justin,

The thing that's always puzzled me in the many years I've watched you forever rebuild your layout is that it never meets your goals for nice, smooth curves or a station large enough to efficiently serve the beautiful passenger equipment you have so painstakingly (Comet cars anyone?) built over the years since I remember you posting on the original Gauge forever ago. You keep making small changes to an otherwise flawed layout. Plus you need some sort of fascia so it doesn't look as if the earth is floating on 3/4" of plywood. You might not have the space, time or inclination to start a new layout now, but you should improve your layout to truly showcase the great equipment you've been modeling!

I'm Chris, lol

Now, I do see what you're saying, but I wouldn't call it flawed just yet.

I will admit that its been 8 years and I still haven't covered the sides, but since its not essential, it usually doesn't factor high on my priority list.

In any event, I don't think the layout is as flawed as it was. I've rebuilt the track, so that I have a larger yard, and easements in my curve. Its all flex track, rather than sectional, cutting down on electrical power loss. The larger yard fixed the "over-capacity" problem, and so local freight runs go smooth.

As far as running a switching operation, I think i'm just fine- <a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2pi3rDA2fI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2pi3rDA2fI</a>

That said, I DO see what you're saying, and I agree. While the layout itself is not necessarily flawed, it definitely does not fit my modeling aims any longer. Its not meant to run anything bigger than a short two-four car commuter train.

My Electric Freight engines are all big mainline power moving long trains from Waverly to points south and west under the wire. My commuter and Amtrak trains definitely need space to "stretch out.

unfortuneately, I don't see what I can do about this. The only thing i can really do to show case it better is to get wires up so my Pantographs can touch something.