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+---- Thread: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) (/showthread.php?tid=163)
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 12-31-2009
doctorwayne Wrote:steinjr Wrote:
An additional factor to take into account is that I need to have a section boundary somewhere in the region between the two crossovers I have today, to get sections of a suitable length for getting into or out of my small room easily, and I would prefer to not have a crossover straddling the section boundary. And that I didn't want to make too easy to switch - having longish tracks with several industries on the same track, where you had to pull cars at several industries to get things out of or into a third industry was fairly typical of the prototype.
I think that the version above would work best. Robinson's car wouldn't need to be moved in order to switch the other industries, and only the second industry in from each end would require re-spotting if the customers on the ends of the track needed service, the same as if the crossovers were facing the opposite directions. In fact, you could spot two cars at Robinson's if one was left over a switch - obviously, then you'd need to move it for switching the industries accessed by that switch, which would require extra moves through the un-blocked switch. Perhaps an operational possibility during Robinson's "busy season", with the single car shown in the drawing above being the "normal" scenario.
![[Image: robinson04.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/robinson04.jpg)
Good point(s) - I'll see if I can make it work with the two crossovers going "outwards" from Robinson instead of "inwards" towards Robinson when I re-lay the tracks here.
Quote:Keeping the switching district distinct from the main line in this area should generate more moves: not especially good for the prototype, but important on your layout where you want to keep the switching crews busy. If you find that they're too busy, you can always add a turnout or two in the future.
Again, good point.
Quote:I like the water/rail transfer idea, and would definitely include it were I to build another layout.
I would very much enjoy seeing what a modeler like you (or Kurt or many others here) could do with a water/rail transfer - I suspect it would be very convincing !
Smile,
Stein, heading down to the train room again
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - foulrift - 12-31-2009
Stein-I just love what you are doing.Great layout plan. The only suggestion that I would make and this is something I didn't do when we were planning mine was to make mock ups of the various buildings to make sure that they fit in the various locations.This way you will be able to see if you need to make any adjustments to the track which is what I had to do in some areas.
Other than that,I can'[t wait to see more progress pics as them become available.
Happy New Year
Bob
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 01-01-2010
foulrift Wrote:The only suggestion that I would make and this is something I didn't do when we were planning mine was to make mock ups of the various buildings to make sure that they fit in the various locations.This way you will be able to see if you need to make any adjustments to the track which is what I had to do in some areas.
Good point. I have been testing track placement with buildings as I have gone along. I might change my mind about a few buildings, and replace them with other buildings later on, but at least I know the footprint of the buildings I can use for replacements, and I try to make sure I set aside footprints in whole multiples of 2" - which is the length of each wall section if you use Walther's Modulars.
Quote:Other than that,I can'[t wait to see more progress pics as them become available.
Your wish is my command - today I have been working on fitting the cassette and fastening down WS risers and inclines, and in some places, foam track bed.
Here is a couple of in-progress shots - I am starting to think that I maybe will be able to run a train a whole loop around the mainline before I go back to work on Monday the 4th. Knock on wood.
Barge terminal - new coastline and a shelf that can hold two barges - one grain and one with something else - oil, coal or general cargo of some kind:
![[Image: DSCN6087.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6087.jpg)
A view from the door, along the cassette across the door opening:
![[Image: DSCN6086.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6086.jpg)
Right end of top board, looking towards chimney base and elevators:
![[Image: DSCN6088.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6088.jpg)
Just to the right of the road overpass by the elevator - I changed the building configuration a little in the rear corner there:
![[Image: DSCN6090.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6090.jpg)
Oh well, time for dinner and then back to work on the layout.
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - foulrift - 01-01-2010
Looking good Stein.In the third picture,are you planning on running track under the building? That would be neat looking.
Bob
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 01-02-2010
foulrift Wrote:In the third picture,are you planning on running track under the building? That would be neat looking.
Kinda - this is how I plan to run the tracks in that area:
![[Image: DSCN6092.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6092.jpg)
Left to right:
- New York Eggs and Butter (Red building with grey concrete "skeleton") and Great Northern Stationary (building with covered loading dock)
- Track under the road overpass to the North Star Mill Company
- Track to the elevator (and back to the main)
- Mainline (leftmost track on raised road bed)
- Milling Siding (rightmost track on raised road bed).
After dithering a bit on the issue, I have decided to run the tracks in the warehouse district directly on the foam, instead of on a raised track bed.
I have also considered whether to do another building for the freight house at the far left of the milling district, and have the track go into the bulding, instead of behind the building. I'll have to experiment a little with building shapes to see what I can come up with here.
Overview of this area on the latest updated track plan (plan 66c):
![[Image: district.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/district.jpg)
I still hope to caulk down the last risers and track bed tomorrow, and hopefully also start laying some mainline track.
If I get the time to do it - the traveling cinema is coming to our little town junior high school gym tomorrow (it comes about once a month), and the kids want me to take them to see an animated movie in the afternoon, my "kid" brother (who is getting to be a middle aged man :-) wanted me to come along for a workout at the other gym around lunch time, and my sister has been invited over for dinner tomorrow night.
We'll see how much time gets left over for work on the layout. Hopefully an hour or two in the morning, at least.
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - faraway - 01-02-2010
steinjr Wrote:...After dithering a bit on the issue, I have decided to run the tracks in the warehouse district directly on the foam, instead of on a raised track bed. ...Yes! You may consider real street running or very deep buried in ballast and dirt. May be at a later stage you may decide to mix both to get the best visual impression.
Good luck with all your other obligations...
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - foulrift - 01-02-2010
Stein-That's exactly what I was talking about. Sweet.
Bob
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 01-03-2010
faraway Wrote:steinjr Wrote:...After dithering a bit on the issue, I have decided to run the tracks in the warehouse district directly on the foam, instead of on a raised track bed. ...
Yes! You may consider real street running or very deep buried in ballast and dirt. May be at a later stage you may decide to mix both to get the best visual impression.
Yes, that is what I was thinking about.
Here is the kind of track look I am visualizing :
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/image.cfm?imageid=180280
And here are some pictures which are inspirational with respect to the kind of look I am visualizing for the warehouse scene as a whole.
(Click on pictures on shorpy.com to see blowups with way more detail):
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6990
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6958
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6924
Those last three pictures are from Duluth in 1905, and Duluth in 1905 of course is not exactly the same as Minneapolis in the 1950s, and things like cars, engines, signs on buildings are older, and buildings are lower, but the type of track configuration, and the relationship between tracks and buildings is about same.
But wanting to do something, and actually doing are two very different things. I am sure there will be quite a bit (and then some) of trying and failing before I get things to look right :-)
Oh well, once my family gets up, so I can start work in my layout room with power tools, I'll get back to work on cutting down the end boards of the three layout sections that comprise the warehouse district scene, so the section end boards are level with the ground/foam instead of being level with where raised tracks would have been.
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - faraway - 01-03-2010
steinjr Wrote:...
Here is the kind of track look I am visualizing :
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/image.cfm?imageid=180280...
That is the kind of deep buried track often found in industrial areas. I tried to do that with one of my tracks (team track) by a two step process. First the usual ballast and than the covering dirt (sand in my case). That did not come out as good as expected. I will omit the ballast the next time and put the track in the dirt only. You may do a small test on a spare track if you can put a layer of dirt on the ballast without interfering with the wheels.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - CAR_FLOATER - 01-04-2010
Hey Stein -
I have been following your latest "train of thought" regarding the ballasting of your track, as I encountered the same issue on my layout. On my prototype, the yards were just blassted with cinders, since these railroads not only hualed and burned coal, but cinders were in abundant supply, being located so close to NYC. Thus, there were no such thing as perfectly maintained ballast profiles, ie; the PRR 4 track Broadway, until you got on to the mainline, and even then they weren't that nice. Anywho, that made laying my track easy. Al lI did was lay it directly on the foam, and I tacked it in place with long straight pins used for sewing. The ballast I used isn't even "real" ballast, ie; Woodland Scenics or other mfg., but rather black sanded tile grout. One of the guys that I operate with suggested with, and I only tried a small sample section on my layout, but I have yet to make the decison weather I like it or not yet. Oh, the reason I like it (other than the fact that it looks like cinders) is that because it is grout, it has it's own adhesive in it already, so all you have to do it wet it, and it sticks. No mat medium, no white glue needed.
I will try to post a photo soon for you to see.
Back to ballast profiles though, my suggestion is to use a combo of "flat" cinder ballasting and in-street trackage. Very few operations like yours or mine would have a nice "perfect" ballast job, UNLESS you were modeling something like a heavy-duty belt line, ie; Terminal RR of St. Louis or Belt RR of Chicago. Those would have a "mainline" of sorts, and would require a "propper" ballasting of the main tracks. But if you just want to model an inner city branch, flat is the way to go. As I always say, consult prototype photos if you can, but I see you have been looking for and finding other real-world examples online. Keep up the good work!
RAH
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - tetters - 01-04-2010
On the subject of grout for ballast.
Maybe you've been following Craig Bisgeier's Housatonic RR website? He has some interesting comments about its use as a medium for ballast.
http://www.housatonicrr.com/const_journal_10.htm
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - CAR_FLOATER - 01-04-2010
tetters Wrote:On the subject of grout for ballast.
Maybe you've been following Craig Bisgeier's Housatonic RR website? He has some interesting comments about its use as a medium for ballast.[/url]
Tetters -
Actually, no, I don't as a general rule. I know Craig personally, and he was the one who suggested using it (and I was the one who let him try it on my layout). Craig found it to not be suitable for his layout (too fine of a product if I remember correctly for his needs and likes). He was going to use it as a cinder underlayment for his crushed rock ballast that the ties were to be "laid" directly upon.
As I said, I'm not sold 100% on it either (but I do like the idea), but as I said, it does have it's advantages. My only issue is that once it dried, it got a whitish cast to it, which may be because of the adhesive in it as it dried. I like the "scale look" of it, and that it requires one stwp to apply - add water. I do have an idea to hit it with a wash of india ink (or something similar) to see if it goes away, but honestly, right now ballasting is not a priority on the layout.
RAH
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - tetters - 01-04-2010
Not to hijack stein's thread. I'd like to do a comparison myself and see what I prefer. For my own yard and sidings, I'd like to do that buried in the dirt look, without it looking like cement as well. I might do an experiment on a three foot test section of track and try three different methods. The charcoal grout being one of the choices. I'll post up the results in another thread.
Now back to the Minneapolis Warehouse District 1957 in HO.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 01-04-2010
tetters Wrote:Not to hijack stein's thread.
No problem - it is very relevant to the look I am going to try for. Am looking forward to your test.
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - doctorwayne - 01-04-2010
I used Woodland Scenics Fine Cinders around my engine shop in Lowbanks, and while I like the colour well enough, the texture appears too coarse. The addition of some black grout might make it look better, so I may give it a try.
![[Image: Freightcarphotosandlayoutviews018.jpg]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/some%20layout%20views/Freightcarphotosandlayoutviews018.jpg)
Another possibility for tracks in dirt might be WS Fine Turf - Earth. I tried real dirt (very fine) but didn't particularly care for the effect, as it came out looking like brown concrete. The Earth stuff retains some of the discrete appearance of its particles, although I mixed mine with fine ballast and weeds. Perhaps real dirt with a light dusting of Earth will look more "dirt-like" than the real thing.
![[Image: Foe-toesfromfirstcd229-1.jpg]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/some%20layout%20views/Foe-toesfromfirstcd229-1.jpg)
Wayne