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+---- Thread: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) (/showthread.php?tid=163)
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 02-20-2010
I still haven't wired up the track for the warehouse district and for the barge terminal scene - but I have had fun running trains with my kids being the engineer and me being the conductor. They are getting pretty decent at switching - being gentle with the throttle, and understanding how far forward they have to pull before I can throw switches and they can back into a yard track to drop off or pick up cars.
I watch the turnouts and do the uncoupling. Works great. We ran for about an hour and a half this afternoon, most of the time with my youngest kid (age 8) on the throttle, with a blissful grin on his face. He doesn't try to derail the train or run it super fast - he is having fun running it at a moderate speed, and backing into sidings and stuff like that. Looks promising :-)
I'll try to get a little more done on the layout tomorrow.
Grin,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 02-25-2010
Well, got the barge terminal tracks wired up, and have been running quite a few trains to test tracks and wiring :-)
It is getting to be time to tackle the warehouse district tracks. The visual impact I am trying for is a row of tall rail served brick warehouses side by side behind multiple railroad tracks. This area also needs to be able to support running around up to three cars, which will be pushed off the left , under the bridge, and on to two industries to the left of the bridge (the North Star Mill and Anderson produce).
Overall track plan looks like this now:
![[Image: warehouse66h.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/warehouse66h.jpg)
Here is four alternate track plans for the warehouse district:
Plan D:
![[Image: district_66d.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/district_66d.jpg)
Plan G:
![[Image: district_66g.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/district_66g.jpg)
Plan H:
![[Image: district_66h.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/district_66h.jpg)
Plan J:
![[Image: district_66j.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/district_66j.jpg)
I still have trouble making up my mind about the warehouse district. Maybe I should ask Shortliner Jack if he has any ideas here ?
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - ocalicreek - 02-25-2010
As for the plans, well, without spending too much time doing virtual switching, it's hard to say which is best. Looks like 6 of one half dozen of another to me.
A couple general questions/considerations.
First, the double slip on plan J. I know we modelers use them as a device to compress space & reduce the # of turnouts, but would the prototype have used one in an industrial district like that? I'm not saying that should stop you from using it, but from the modeling perspective it may not be as reliable as the regular turnouts it would replace. And having to reach across the layout to fiddle with a turnout, well, it better be bullet proof when you install it.
Second, how does this area balance the traffic levels from staging (and other yards/storage tracks)? I like to think less is more, but sometimes more is more interesting. How much paperwork do you want to do (car cards/waybills) and will including or removing an industry or two change that? I'd be tempted to replace Robinson Bros. or NY Butter & Egg with the back side of a tenement or an abandoned/condemned warehouse, something with some scenic potential.
Galen
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - Sumpter250 - 02-25-2010
steinjr Wrote:I still haven't wired up the track for the warehouse district and for the barge terminal scene - but I have had fun running trains with my kids being the engineer and me being the conductor. They are getting pretty decent at switching - being gentle with the throttle, and understanding how far forward they have to pull before I can throw switches and they can back into a yard track to drop off or pick up cars. I watch the turnouts and do the uncoupling. Works great. We ran for about an hour and a half this afternoon, most of the time with my youngest kid (age 8) on the throttle, with a blissful grin on his face. He doesn't try to derail the train or run it super fast - he is having fun running it at a moderate speed, and backing into sidings and stuff like that. Looks promising :-)
I'll try to get a little more done on the layout tomorrow.
Grin,
Stein
I'm jealous, my daughters were never very interested in the trains. Keep the memory of that "blissful grin on his face", safe from forgetfulness, It's a powerful blessing.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - shortliner - 02-25-2010
Stein - I lke number 4 mainly because you don't have to interupt business at other industries, in order to pull cars out to get others in! Happier customers!!
What about removing the left hand turnout near the loco, and replacing it with a right hand? then you could curve the tailtrack currently feeding the freight house round, move the freight house into the clear area (or make it into a triangular building), and continue that track to the road/yard area and use it as a team track. Say if you don't follow what I'm suggesting, I've copied the track plan and drawn it in - sorry for the rather wiggly track!
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 02-25-2010
shortliner Wrote:Stein - I lke number 4 mainly because you don't have to interupt business at other industries, in order to pull cars out to get others in! Happier customers!!
What about removing the left hand turnout near the loco, and replacing it with a right hand? then you could curve the tailtrack currently feeding the freight house round, move the freight house into the clear area (or make it into a triangular building), and continue that track to the road/yard area and use it as a team track. Say if you don't follow what I'm suggesting, I've copied the track plan and drawn it in - sorry for the rather wiggly track![ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
Hmmm - that would work too. I misunderstood you a little - I thought you mean to have the tracks above the freight house be a team track (and a second track for unloading stuff into the Security warehouse when things are busy), something along these lines:
![[Image: district_66k.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/district_66k.jpg)
I was so fixated on the back row that I forgot to consider doing something more interesting with the freight house. Much better to use that area more efficiently and curving track down that way!
Mmm - actually - a better idea to let the team track run down there, and preserve the "canyon" look hiding the end of the tracks between the buildings at the far upper left corner of the layout - I can extend the loading area for the freight house without making access too bad by having a platform in front of the rightmost part of the freight house track. Something like this:
![[Image: district_66m.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/district_66m.jpg)
I'll go play a bit with tracks to see what I can do with a building along the wall behind the team track and room for trucks by the team track.
Thank you for getting me going again!
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - shortliner - 02-25-2010
Yes - either way would work, but - as you say - the second version keeps the "canyon effect". Sorry for the poor amendment to your drawing - if I'd had the XTrkCad file it would have been more like yours!
I have to admit that a team track makes a very useful "any Industry, any Freight car" place to put a car without having the industry physically on the layout. The other thing that would work in there would be a grounded container, fitted with an electricity supply from a pole, with a pump facility in it, and hoses that connect directly to tanker trucks and rail trucks - then you could run a couple of tank cars in there and have your "Fuel dealer" somewhere "off-layout". There were some photos, about 18 months back in RMC, of just such a thing
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 02-28-2010
Finally done removing a ton of snow. At least my back thinks it was about a ton - it is not quite as young as it once was. Oh well, the thing to remember is Winston Churchill's answer when asked how it felt to turn 90: "pretty good, considering the alternative". I am only half way to 90 yet ... :-)
The kids were having a blast with the snow, though - the lower layers of snow was getting compacted enough to make good building "stones" for a veritable snow fortress out in our front yard :-)
Tonight after me and my oldest boy was done cleaning up the kitchen from the dad and boy's dinner Pizza baking (while my wife got to relax and read the paper while us three boys made dinner), me and my oldest kid (age 11) ran trains for a while. He did one lap at moderate speed, and then asked if we could do some switching instead of just running
So we switched for about 45 minutes - he really enjoyed running the throttle while I did the turnouts, uncoupled cars and signaled him to pull forward or shove back. We both had a blast. I must say I enjoy being a conductor a lot more than I had expected.
Got the new track configuration laid out for the warehouse district today. Turned out I had an error in my drawing - the module boundary was further to the right than I had on my drawing. Must have done a calculation error when going from centimeters to inches
hock: Lucky mistake, though - turns out I have more room on along the rearmost track than I had though. So I dropped the slip and replaced it with a normal right turnout.
So now the track plan looks like this:
![[Image: warehouse66m2.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/warehouse66m2.jpg)
Some pictures showing the track configuration in the warehouse district:
Left end:
![[Image: DSCN6277.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6277.jpg)
Further right:
![[Image: DSCN6276.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6276.jpg)
Seen from the extreme right end of the warehouse district (from the River Road overpass):
![[Image: DSCN6273.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/DSCN6273.jpg)
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - shortliner - 03-01-2010
Hey, hey! tucking that team track in there really does work out well
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-01-2010
shortliner Wrote:Hey, hey! tucking that team track in there really does work out well
Yes, I rather think it will work. Thank you very much for that idea!
Also, I'd like to thank Galen for reminding me again that the double slip was fairly untypical for the type of place I was modeling.
I knew it, and had eliminated it before, but I was sorely tempted to add it again - I am glad I was able to find room for a regular right turnout (and enough straight track between the two turnouts for one of my small switchers or a 40' car).
Galen - I never replied to your question about planned traffic. I am tempted to have different railroads serve different customers, with each train moving around cuts of around 7-8 cars, with one railroad serving the barge terminal, one serving the warehouses, and one serving the mill.
We'll see - right now I am just trying to stay fairly flexible - and have a little staging, a little yard along the aisle on the shelf along the top wall, and some industry spurs and supporting tracks in the warehouse district.
Main goal is to have switching for a two person crew or two persons each running one train at the same time.
And Sumpter - I and my wife both feel blessed to have our two boys. They are sometimes the proof that insanity is hereditary - you get it from your children. But they also make us laugh, makes us feel proud, and makes us feel very fortunate.
Grin,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - Russ Bellinis - 03-02-2010
I love your design as well as the execution, Stein. That is a lot of layout in a 6' x 11' space. Often times people try to fit too much into the space and want to run long mainline trains with big power in a space like that and end up with the Locomotive chasing the caboose. I think you layout is PERFECT for that space.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-03-2010
Russ Bellinis Wrote:I love your design as well as the execution, Stein. That is a lot of layout in a 6' x 11' space. Often times people try to fit too much into the space and want to run long mainline trains with big power in a space like that and end up with the Locomotive chasing the caboose. I think you layout is PERFECT for that space.
Thank you, Russ. I am enjoying it too :-)
Smile,
Stein, who feels rather the worse for wear after two hours on the roof clearing off snow ...
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - faraway - 03-03-2010
Stein, you might gain considerable space if you shift the time line by about 20 years.
It makes an impressive difference if I put the standard after WWII all steal 40' boxcars oder all wood boxcars on the layout. I use old wood boxcars of 40' length but they are smaller and not do high. It is the volume of the car that makes the difference. I can shrink my layout to a shoe box by putting some 70'+ well cars and some 50' covered hoppers on the tracks. It is a disaster. Going back to 193x is the opposite and creates space.
The second impressive effect comes from the automobiles and trucks. It is amazing how small a street can be with a Ford AA or a Jordan truck on it and still look well proportioned.
Both modifications (small cars and small automobiles of an earlier area) create space without any changes on the layout!
The Proto 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 switcher are wonderful running engines. Locals would be happy after a Spectrum 2-8-0. If you like diesel, I did just discover the Atlas HH600.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-03-2010
faraway Wrote:Stein, you might gain considerable space if you shift the time line by about 20 years.
It makes an impressive difference if I put the standard after WWII all steal 40' boxcars oder all wood boxcars on the layout. I use old wood boxcars of 40' length but they are smaller and not do high. It is the volume of the car that makes the difference. I can shrink my layout to a shoe box by putting some 70'+ well cars and some 50' covered hoppers on the tracks. It is a disaster. Going back to 193x is the opposite and creates space.
The second impressive effect comes from the automobiles and trucks. It is amazing how small a street can be with a Ford AA or a Jordan truck on it and still look well proportioned.
Both modifications (small cars and small automobiles of an earlier area) create space without any changes on the layout!
The Proto 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 switcher are wonderful running engines. Locals would be happy after a Spectrum 2-8-0. If you like diesel, I did just discover the Atlas HH600.
Hmmm - I will certainly consider that as an option for later. But for right now, I am more fond of the diesels of the late 50s than I am of steam engines.
Easy enough to change later, if I change my mind.
Thank you for the suggestion!
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-06-2010
faraway Wrote:The Proto 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 switcher are wonderful running engines. Locals would be happy after a Spectrum 2-8-0.
Darn, Reinhard - I don't want to change eras - I love my diesels too much for that, but you got me to look at steam engines again - my wife is might very well kill me (in some nice and kind way, of course - but still ...) if I spend $300+ on a good steam engine with DCC and sound (no point in running steam without sound, is there?)
I wonder - how late could I semi-realistically run a steam switcher in the Twin Cities anyways - early 1950s? Mid-50s?
Hmm - found this prototype picture showing an Omaha road steam engine pulling some cars in 1955:
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresources/image.cfm?imageid=100795
What have we got here - is this a 2-8-0? Or could it actually be a 4-6-0 - a ten-wheeler??
Could this be used to justify one of these babies: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-84501 or http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-84906 ?
No - must concentrate on getting tracks ready, and test running and tinkering with them until they are reasonably bullet proof. We can revisit the question of steam engine or not later.
I've spent all day today shoveling snow off roofs in the neighborhood that had started to creak under the weight of the snow. Tomorrow I am helping my sister with a fundraiser for cancer research (she is a cancer survivor - knock on wood).
Might be another weekend where nothing gets done on the layout - I am so beat from the snow shoveling that I am thinking of going to bed at 8 pm
hock: Oh well, maybe run a little trains in the morning :-)
Grin,
Stein