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Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - faraway - 03-06-2010
steinjr Wrote:faraway Wrote:The Proto 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 switcher are wonderful running engines. Locals would be happy after a Spectrum 2-8-0.
Darn, Reinhard - ...
Stein, I did intentionally mention the Proto 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 and Spectrum 2-8-0 only. All three have in common
- widely available on the market (special offers and ebay) in DC version
- lots of space in the tender to install DCC/Sound decoder with speaker of your choice
- smooth runners
- very common models widely used
- last engines even on duty after 1950
- small engines for small layout
The ten wheeler is an earlier generation and did not make it in 1950 (you may find exceptions). Some used then at the round house, at shops etc. but not for regular switching and transfer services.
The USRA 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 are more expensive and due to the lack of the leading axis very limited to switching. Transfers have been done but with very low speed only to prevent derailing. But mostly switching only was the job. The 0-8-0 was a heavy engine. Tracks at warehouses might not be suitable for that axis load.
The 2-8-0 is quite often in special offers less then 100Euro/USD (e.g <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.trainworldonline.com/catalog/category/detail.php?id=15900&find_section=642">http://www.trainworldonline.com/catalog ... ection=642</a><!-- m --> 84.99USD). It "was" a great engine around 1900. It became a second class local freight engine after 1920. After that it became demoted to switcher still with the capability to do simple transfers (some RR removed the first axis, that limits the speed to switch use only).
I think that is the perfect steam engine for a small layout.
I got a DC Spectrum 2-8-0 at a good price, added ESU a DCC decoder and tested it. I liked it and got a ESU sound decoder and liked it even more. But I run 90% without sound. I don't like the noise all the time. I do never buy an engine with DCC or sound decoders. I have my preferred brands with 1. priority superb motor control and 2. priority common brand (ESU and ZIMO only) for easy programming.
ps. The 2-8-0 is a free lance model with a lot of common with the IC900 series. However, IC did rework that series of engines and did change the sand dome to a very different shape. Therefor is the Spectrum 2-8-0 in 1950 a free lance model anyhow.
pps. There is a more cost effective way to test how older/smaller equipment virtually creates space on the layout
a. Get one or two Mather car (like this <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog.php?id=1483&item=38742">http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog ... item=38742</a><!-- m --> )
b. Get one or two automobiles (like this <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog.php?id=377&item=29965">http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog ... item=29965</a><!-- m --> )
and get a feeling about the change. If you like you might have another look into steam engines.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - Russ Bellinis - 03-06-2010
Stein, just because there were longer cars available in 1957 doesn't mean that you must run them. Any 40 footers built after ww2 would still be in service in 1957. You could also run a few 40 foot high cubes, mix in a few 50 footers (a 50 isn't all that much bigger than a 40). Mill gons would typically be 60 feet long in that era, but other wise 40 foot and 50 foot cars would not be out of place, and you really don't need to deal with longer cars if you don't want to. I think a train made up of 40 & 50 foot cars looks longer than a train of similar length but made up of half as many cars 85 feet long, to say nothing of how many cars will fit on a given siding if they are short instead of longer.
Regarding steam, it depends entirely on the railroad. I model the Santa Fe, steam was gone by 1950 except for a summer rush due to a bumper crop of California fruit in 1952 or 1953 that required them to pull steam out of "moth balls". The N&W and Southern railroads ran steam until 1960, I think. The U.P. ran the Big Boys in helper service on Sherman Hill until 1959, I think. I think the Pennsy and NYC both ran steam well into the 1950's before completely dieselizing. I'm not sure if Minneapolis was served by the Milwaukee Road, C B & Q,, or maybe the Soo; and I'm not sure how long steam lasted on those roads.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-06-2010
faraway Wrote:Stein, I did intentionally mention the Proto 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 and Spectrum 2-8-0 only. All three have in common
- widely available on the market (special offers and ebay) in DC version
- lots of space in the tender to install DCC/Sound decoder with speaker of your choice
- smooth runners
- very common models widely used
- last engines even on duty after 1950
- small engines for small layout
The ten wheeler is an earlier generation and did not make it in 1950 (you may find exceptions). Some used then at the round house, at shops etc. but not for regular switching and transfer services.
Yes, I understood that. I was sorta joking about you leading me into temptation :-)
I am not totally sure what kind of the engine is shown in the prototype picture from 1955 I found - whether is in a 4-6-0 or a 2-8-0 or something else - it is hard to see the wheels. One web page I found seemed to indicate that it was a 2-8-0 (which makes sense), another that it was a 4-6-0 (which is unlikely, but possible). It seems to be pulling a few cars in the picture - either switching or a local run.
Quote:The 2-8-0 is quite often in special offers less then 100Euro/USD (e.g <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.trainworldonline.com/catalog/category/detail.php?id=15900&find_section=642">http://www.trainworldonline.com/catalog ... ection=642</a><!-- m --> 84.99USD). It "was" a great engine around 1900. It became a second class local freight engine after 1920. After that it became demoted to switcher still with the capability to do simple transfers (some RR removed the first axis, that limits the speed to switch use only).
I think that is the perfect steam engine for a small layout.
It certainly is a pretty engine. And that is a far more edible price for it. Even with decoder and speaker added afterwards.
Quote:pps. There is a more cost effective way to test how older/smaller equipment virtually creates space on the layout
a. Get one or two Mather car (like this <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog.php?id=1483&item=38742">http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog ... item=38742</a><!-- m --> )
b. Get one or two automobiles (like this <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog.php?id=377&item=29965">http://www.rd-hobby.de/shopping/catalog ... item=29965</a><!-- m --> )
and get a feeling about the change. If you like you might have another look into steam engines.
Nah, I don't really want to backdate to the 30s - I agree that 40-foot cars are smart, but that's what I am mostly running already. Albeit steel cars instead of outside braced wood cars. And I prefer the look for 1950s cars to 1930s cars.
Not that I am saying that your layout (or Dr Wayne's layout) is not looking good - both layouts are looking fabulous. But the 30s is not my cup of tea.
Sneaking in a steam engine on a late 50s layout, on the other hand, is not totally out of the question. I'll also make sure to bookmark the German supplier you gave me the link to - they seem to have some nice model railroad stuff.
Russ Bellinis Wrote:Stein, just because there were longer cars available in 1957 doesn't mean that you must run them.
I agree. Which is why I am mostly running 40-foot cars. And carrying grain in boxcars, rather than in covered hoppers.
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - faraway - 03-13-2010
steinjr Wrote:... Nah, I don't really want to backdate to the 30s - I agree that 40-foot cars are smart, but that's what I am mostly running already. Albeit steel cars instead of outside braced wood cars. And I prefer the look for 1950s cars to 1930s cars....
Stein, I gave it a try your way http://rubpeters.ru.funpic.de/work/IMGP4062.JPG and switched back. Isn't it great we have the opportunity to build two layouts
btw. This are tow other German online shops I use frequently if it is of interest for you
http://www.aat-net.de/
http://www.modellbahn-atelier-berlin.de/
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-13-2010
faraway Wrote:steinjr Wrote:... Nah, I don't really want to backdate to the 30s - I agree that 40-foot cars are smart, but that's what I am mostly running already. Albeit steel cars instead of outside braced wood cars. And I prefer the look for 1950s cars to 1930s cars....
Stein, I gave it a try your way http://rubpeters.ru.funpic.de/work/IMGP4062.JPG and switched back. Isn't it great we have the opportunity to build two layouts
LOL - sure is. I think that diesel looks even more beautiful on your layout than the steamers. But I have also been looking at some pictures from the Northern Pacific at Northtown yard in Minneapolis in 1956 and 1957 in the latest (I assume) issue of Classic Trains magazine.
Quite a few different steam locomotives were still being used in Minneapolis, even that late. But it was the last couple of years for steam in Minneapolis.
I haven't worked on my layout for far too long - has been too dog tired. Last weekend we spent much of the weekend shoveling snow down from the roofs around here.
On Monday I came down with a hefty case of the flu, and I have been all wrung out all week. I made it in to work on Tuesday, but had to go home again at lunchtime, and worked from home on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday - today was the first day in a week I felt up to going outside to hit the gym for a workout.
Hopefully I should feel up to some layout tasks again tomorrow.
Thanks for the links!
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - faraway - 03-14-2010
steinjr Wrote:... I think that diesel looks even more beautiful on your layout...Stein, you are a dangerous man :o I got infected by the diesel virus again... Currently running steal boxcars and steal reefers with NYC S2, SW7 and VO660 with sound decoders. I love that tok, tok, tok of older diesel.
Hope you are well and up again!
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-15-2010
faraway Wrote:steinjr Wrote:... I think that diesel looks even more beautiful on your layout...Stein, you are a dangerous man :o I got infected by the diesel virus again... Currently running steal boxcars and steal reefers with NYC S2, SW7 and VO660 with sound decoders. I love that tok, tok, tok of older diesel.
Hope you are well and up again!
I'm up again. Ran trains for a little while with my kids, and started working on a bridge yesterday.
But today both of our kids came down with the same crap I was down with all of last week
Had to take out youngest kid to the emergency room tonight and get some help reducing the swelling in his throat. Took two rounds of inhaling racemic adrenaline (I think that's what they called it) and some kind of cortison (?) to keep the swelling down, so he could breathe easy. They told me they had had a lot of older kids in with those symptoms the last couple of weeks.
Oh well, he is resting easy now. So I'll try to grab some sleep now, so I can get up early tomorrow morning, and my wife can sleep in a bit then.
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-28-2010
Well, it has been quite a while without any work on the layout. So last week I invited a model railroading buddy to come over this Sunday to run trains.
Sure enough - that got me started again - can't let my friend down - so I replaced the small yard at the front of the layout (which had some convoluted twists and turns) with two longer tracks with easy access, wired up a couple of industries more and got the tracks ready for the warehouse district.
Ran out of time before I got the warehouse district wired, but we still had a good time switching a bit with my trusted RS-3, before we put his transition era Norwegian steam engine on the tracks. It ran beautifully - had an amazingly slow creep speed and made some great chuffing sounds as it ran.
We also had a look at a layout section he is working on - he also took a tip from Ian Rice (and me) and is building his layout from 1/4" plywood. Looks good.
Would have shared some pictures from my camera, but I can't find the charger for the camera battery so I can get it charged enough to download the pictures from the camera.
Oh well - we'll probably find it somewhere during "the quiet week" (ie Easter) - I'll be off work from mid-day Wednesday until Tuesday morning - this Easter I hope to get the warehouse district tracks operational.
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-28-2010
Found the charger for the camera. My wife had hidden it by putting it where chargers are kept, instead of leaving it wherever I last left it ...
Here are some pictures from today:
1) My friend Svein switching the yard with an RS-3:
![[Image: CIMG0116.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0116.jpg)
2) The junior engineer is picking up some cars:
![[Image: CIMG0124.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0124.jpg)
3) One of the three beautiful Norwegian 4-8-0 engines Svein brought along:
![[Image: CIMG0120.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0120.jpg)
We had hoped to put a decoder into the engine above, but none of us had a screwdriver quite small enough for the screws holding the top of the tender down ... to quote Kevin Kline: "disappointed!!!!". We had both been looking forward to seeing this beauty run.
Oh well - Svein plans to go buy some smaller screw drivers - we'll see it run next time:
4) An exotic meeting in the Milling district - an RS3 from Great Northern passes a Norwegian steam engine under the road overpass:
![[Image: CIMG0127.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0127.jpg)
5) We got an urge to find out if his steam engine could pull, so we made an improvised transition coupler of soldering wire (couldn't find any twine), so we could couple freight cars with knuckle coupler cars to his engine, which has chain link couplings:
![[Image: CIMG0134.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0134.jpg)
It worked - sort of - until the first uphill, where we had some runaway cars ....
6) At the end of the visit we sat down and had something to drink while we looked at the first section for Svein's new layout - which also is built of 6 mm (1/4") plywood, in the way Ian Rice does it. Here the turn table and some turnouts have been test fitted:
![[Image: CIMG0136.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0136.jpg)
I think this will be a lovely layout.
Svein's track plan can be seen here:
![[Image: ISL_i_boden_05_w790.jpg]](http://www.mjf.no/forum/uploads/794/ISL_i_boden_05_w790.jpg)
The Norwegian words on his plan:
"Tømmer" = log loading
"Ferge" = car ferry
"Frilastspor" = team track (literally the word means "free load track")
"Gods" = freight house
"Stasjon" = station/depot
"Privet" = old fashioned name for a room where a man sits alone .... :-)
"Lasterampe" = loading dock
"Industri" = industry
Smile,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - railroader9731 - 03-28-2010
Ah yes freinds over to get the job done. Not big on the foren power but them steam models are AWSOME
Also like the layout plan.
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - faraway - 03-28-2010
Did you do all the tracks and wiring? Must be as you did some operation.
ps. The blue rods on the steamer look great. Was that common in Norway?
pps.What temperature do you have in the room with the layout or was your son on his way into the snow outside?
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - Gary S - 03-28-2010
Thanks for sharing the photos. I'm glad to see y'all having fun!
Also, thanks for the Norwegian terms and translations (I see that the English word "privy" is a derivative of the Norwegian).
And, I had the same question as Faraway = how cold is it over there?
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 03-28-2010
Thanks for the comments, guys.
Tracks are not fully wired up - I still have to wire (temporarily) the four tracks closest to the warehouses and the staging tracks. Also, tracks are not fastened down yet - I am waiting for spring to get far enough that I can take up the tracks, take the sections outside and paint the landscape before I fasten down tracks and finish the wiring properly (at the moment temporary wiring is hanging down under the layout).
Layout room was at about 18C - call it about 65F or so. I was in there in my T-shirt, my friend Svein was just wearing a normal sweater, but Truls was feeling a bit chilly today - he might be brewing on a cold. Coldest it has been in the room was about 40-45 degrees Fahrenheit - between 5 and 10 C, in mid-January, after an extended period of of temperatures below minus 20C (zero fahrenheit) outside, and lots of snow. But now spring is coming, roads are getting bare, snow piles are shrinking, and temperatures run in the 40s (Fahrenheit) on the outside in the daytime (even though we still get frost on some nights).
Gary - fun to (re)learn that the English word for "privet" is privy. Of course. Had heard it before, but it's not one of the words I use daily in English, so I had forgotten it. After a little googling, it seems like Norwegian (or at least old fashioned Norwegian - these days we use "WC", from the English "Water Closet") got the word from the latin word privatus (private), via the Anglo-French privé.
Reinhard - I don't know how common it was to paint the rods on the steam engines over here. But the company that makes those steamers are renowned for making accurate models, and at the price of those steamers (that brass H0 scale loco was made in only 25 numbered copies, I think Svein said, and it cost about 6000 kroner - about $1000), I would expect it to be a pretty accurate representation of the prototype.
9731 - I guess I like foreign locomotives. But then, what is a foreign locomotive to me is not necessarily a foreign locomotive to you, and the other way around :-)
Smile,,
Stein
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - railroader9731 - 03-30-2010
9731 - I guess I like foreign locomotives. But then, what is a foreign locomotive to me is not necessarily a foreign locomotive to you, and the other way around
Re: Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO) - steinjr - 04-02-2010
Well, it has been Easter vacation for a couple of days - we are done with family parties and honey do lists - I finally got back to working on the railroad. Started a little basic landscaping - nothing very dramatic - what will be a grassy bank between the aisle and the main along the left side of the layout, and a some gentle undulations in what will be along the front of the yard and between the main and the warehouse district running track.
Rough impression of area I am working on - I gave it a quick first coat of brown to get a better impression of what the landscape would look like.
![[Image: CIMG0149.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0149.jpg)
Closeup of a small depression/ditch between the main and the track into the warehouse district:
![[Image: CIMG0150.jpg]](http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/warehouse/CIMG0150.jpg)
I'll continue tomorrow.
Smile,
Stein