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ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - odave - 07-02-2010
As promised, here's a thread about my HO scale layout. This layout is my second, following the first after a 25+ year break from the hobby. I'm building it in a 10'x18' exterior shed.
This first post is an overall look at the layout as planned. Sorry, it got kinda long
Construction details and photos will follow in subsequent posts. There's not much to show yet as my pace is glacial.
Current state
At bat: Finalize Bad River "riverbed"
On Deck: Lay Lakefield Track!
Goal
My model railroad layout will provide a fun activity for myself and my family, primarily. It will be a "learning" layout that portrays a "good enough for me" model of realistic railroad operations, with scenes that give a sense of place. Although the layout will be freelanced, it will maintain a prototype flavor. That is, its aspects will be influenced and guided by prototypes without being completely restricted by them.
Summary
Theme...............Midwest USA, small town agriculture & manufacturing.
Locale................Mid-Michigan
Era...................Late 1970s
Prototype............Freelanced short line (Saginaw Valley & Western). Chessie System has trackage rights.
Size..................8' x 18'
Scale.................HO
Style..................Donut
Nominal Car.........50'
Nominal Train.......GP-38 + 8x50' cars + caboose
Main Line Run.......41'
Minimum Radius....24"
Minimum Turnout...#5
Maximum Grade....0%
Construction........Extruded foam over plywood & lauan on 1x4 open grid.
Height...............50"
Track................Commercial code 83 main & sidings, code 70 spurs
Control..............DC for now, but wired for easy conversion to DCC later
Operators...........1-3, most often 1 (me)
Operations..........Casual but purposeful
Track Plan
As of 7/2/2010
![[Image: Layout7H_labels_1024.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/Layout7H_labels_1024.jpg)
Schematic
![[Image: SVWSchematic.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/SVWSchematic.jpg)
As you can see, I basically have two switching layouts separated by hidden end-curves, which provides a continuous running option. Distances between scenes can be simulated by holding trains behind backdrops and/or running laps. This overall arrangement leads to my three...
Operation Scenarios
1. Both Lakefield and Carson City are operated, staging is on the hidden end curves and on-board ("just arrived"). Focus is on local switching and yard job.
2. Only Lakefield is operated, Carson City is used for staging. Focus is on local switching and through trains.
3. Only Carson City is operated, Lakefield is used for staging. Focus is on yard job, some through trains.
I have not yet made any decisions on specific operation mechanics, but I am leaning towards Track Warrant Control and switchlists.
Background
The Saginaw Valley & Western Railroad is a freelanced shortline operating between the real Michigan cities of Saginaw and Grand Rapids. Inspiration comes from my childhood, which was spent in this area along the actual Pere Marquette > C&O > Chessie System line. This real life line, nicknamed the "Turkey Trail", zig-zagged its way across the state between the two cities.
![[Image: PMToGR.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/PMToGR.jpg)
While I think the Turkey Trail would be a great subject for a prototype based layout, I feel my available time and skill level are not up to the task. My personality is such that if I were to point to a town and say "that's Breckenridge", and the structures and trackage looked nothing like the real Breckenridge, it would bother me. Since the main goal of this layout is "learning" and not "strict prototype replication", I decided to let myself off the hook and go freelance.
But I don't want the "anything goes" kind of freelance layout. Conveying a sense of place is very important to me, so I have placed restrictions on motive power, rolling stock, structures, industries, road names, procedures, landscapes, etc. to be those one would see in the late 1970s in mid-Michigan. At least when the layout is "in character" during an operations session. I believe this approach gives my layout a strong protoype flavor, while at the same time releases me from the need to kitbash or scratchbuild things unless I really want to.
So instead of the real Saginaw Valley & St. Louis Railroad starting its east-west line from St. Louis, MI to Saginaw in 1873, my precursor will start in the same year but run from Ithaca. This establishes a NE-SW "air line" between Saginaw and Grand Rapids, which would be completed by 1905. Mergers with other, smaller railroads also establish a north-south branch line from Lowell to Remus, MI.
![[Image: SVWToGR.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/SVWToGR.jpg)
Is this a plausible alternate history? Not really, unless there are some geological modifications that make the larger rivers in the area flow in different places. But plausible alternate history is not required for the success of this layout. Much more important to me is conveying the general atmosphere and railroad operations typical of this locale, as well as casual fun with my kids.
System Map
This is where my fictional railroad would run if it existed in Michigan, along with the real railroads it would interchange with. Some towns on the line are real, and some are invented to provide more traffic for the line.
![[Image: SVWSystemMap_900.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/SVWSystemMap_900.jpg)
Modeled Scenes
Lakefield is a fictional version of a typical midwestern small town. It is dominated by a farm co-op, which includes a grain elevator and related farm supply stuff. Running roughly even with agriculture in terms of importance in this area is manufacturing (automotive and other), which is represented by job shop Lakefield Tool & Machine. Rounding out the typical small town industries are Hayes Lumber and McNier Fuels. These are named for two of my boyhood friends whose fathers had model railroad layouts that inspired me to build my first layout back in my teen years. On the outskirts of Lakefield is a rural scene with a farm, muddy river, and a through truss bridge. This scene will help reinforce the tone of Michigan's Saginaw valley.
Carson City is a real place in Michigan, but was served only by the Grand Trunk Western. Since Carson City is approximately half-way between Saginaw and Grand Rapids on my fictional air-line, it seemed to be the logical place for a small yard for turning locals and interchange with another road. The yard here has three main functions:
1) Interchange traffic: SVW locals from Saginaw and Grand Rapids turn here, and the GTW will set out/pick up as well.
2) Originate & terminate a local that goes up the Remus branch one day and returns the next.
3) Serve local industries (team track, refrigerator plant, locomotive service area).
Refrigerator manufacturing was an important industry in this region at the time, with nearby Greenville once being dubbed "the refrigerator capital of the world". While Carson City is a bit to the east of this refrigerator Mecca, I figured that with the presence of another railroad, one of the companies might have built a satellite plant here. Besides, it comes in handy for a scene transition.
The real Carson city was also home to a small oil refinery, served by the GTW. A good deal of my interchange traffic will come from this plant.
Trains
Traffic on the SVW is laid back but not sleepy. Obviously my layout does not have enough staging to operate all of the trains below, so not all of them will run all the time. Individual operation sessions can be "hand crafted" to focus on different trains in different scenarios.
Through trains
GS10 - Grand Rapids to Saginaw, daily
SG11 - Saginaw to Grand Rapids, daily
Locals
GC30 - Grand Rapids to Carson City, daily
CG31 - Carson City to Grand Rapids, daily (return trip of GC30)
CS32 - Carson City to Saginaw (return trip of SC33)
SC33 - Saginaw to Carson City, daily
CR34 - Carson City to Remus, Mondays & Wednesdays
RC35 - Remus Carson City Local Tuedays & Thursdays
CCY - Carson City Yard Job, daily
Extras
GS50 - SVW grain extra, Grand Rapids to Saginaw, seasonal
SG51 - SVW grain extra, Saginaw to Grand Rapids, seasonal
X200 - Chessie System run-through, Grand Rapids to Saginaw, daily
X201 - Chessie System, Saginaw to Grand Rapids, daily
Xnnnn - Special excursion, uses lead engine number, seasonal
Motive Power
The SVW roster is largely inspired by the real life Ann Arbor Railroad, which started with Alco diesels and later switched to EMD Geeps when the Alcos started to wear out. The SVW's new geeps are mainly found on the through trains, while older Alco RS-2s are used on locals. Yard switchers are Alco S-1 & S-3s
The Chessie System run-throughs will have power typically seen in Michigan at that time, namely GP7s, GP9s, GP30s, and GP35s of C&O and B&O heritage. Western Maryland F units even made occasional appearances in the late 70s.
The SVW is friendly to a local railroad preservation society, allowing them to use SVW trackage for steam excursions or photo-freight charters on the weekends.
Well, that's probably more than enough for now. I'll post pictures of the actual layout in the days to come.
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - scubadude - 07-02-2010
Great plan, well thought out. Looking forward to your progress, don't forget to get some new batteries for your camera! We'll be waiting for the pictures....
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - Gary S - 07-02-2010
Very impressive write-up. Obviously you've done a lot of planning and put a lot of thought into what you are doing. That will make for a great layout. The concept and history and geography of your railroad seems plausible to me. Again, most impressive.
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - P5se Camelback - 07-02-2010
O'Dave ... I'm both impressed and heartened!
I'm really impressed with the thought and organization that you've done ... it is not all that dis-similar to my own approach to the hobby, using my model railroading time in the days following graduation from college and working to start a career as a research and planning project when I had time in the evenings, but no money and no space beyond a three-foot-long section of track that I used as a "class" in hand-laying track and and developing ballasting technique. Route travelled, industries by town/village, standards of the road, Class Numbering Systems for Locomotives as well as for Freight and Passenger Rolling Stock ... all of those things are coming into play now as I, like you, rejoin the hobby after a lengthy hiatus.
I'm very interested in the graphics that you posted with the copy. What software was used to develop the track plan drawing and the route through the state of Michigan map? Really nice stuff! I wouldn't mind generating some of that stuff myself!
And you mention you've "been gone" from the hobby for 25+ ... Myself likewise and as I use all my fingers and toes doing the math, I think that would take your last involvement back to the late seventies and the days when the concept of "Freelanced Prototype" was being made popular by the likes of Allen McClelleand and Tony Koester and "the boys of the Lichen Belt," all modeling the area of and around the coal fields of the Appalachian Mountains. Those were the same people and magazine articless that influenced me.
One thing about your overall plan does concern me though ... you said "shed" and the image that first came to mind when I saw the track plan drawing, and the double doors at one end, was steel outdoor lawn equipment storage shed. Now, my sister and her family live outside Detroit and I know that in the winters, the couldn't see outside through the frost on the windows in the winter until they replaced all the windows with "double-pane vacuum-space insulated" windows. So how will you deal with COLD in this "outside shed?"
hock: I will watch your progress with interest, O'D, and If I have't taken the opportunity to say so before ... Welcome to Big Blue at The-Gauge!
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - ocalicreek - 07-02-2010
Welcome, ODave! Great plan! Well thought out!
I like the operations style - casual but purposeful. This is what I've striven for on previous layouts. Great drawing and well-executed history.
Galen
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - Ralph - 07-02-2010
What a well thought out presentation!
I especially enjoyed the maps and placement of your layout in the world, and the "in character" approach that keeps the Michigan flavor. Makes me want to do something similar in presenting my own layout. Looking forward to more!!Ralph
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - nachoman - 07-02-2010
Wow. I am always amazed at how well some of you plan your layouts out. Mine usually go no further than a pencil drawing on the back of a hotel bar cocktail napkin
. I really like your plan - should make for a fun layout.
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - odave - 07-03-2010
Thanks guys. One good thing about not having enough free time to actually work on the layout is that I've had plenty of "brain time" to spend on it. The bad thing, of course, is that I don't have any track down yet! I hope to remedy that soon.
Here's some answers:
The track plan was drawn with 3rdPlanit and "scenic'd" using PaintShop PRO 6. The other drawings are in PSP too - I think they're is up to version 10 or 11 or something, but I like the older version because I think the UI is better, and later versions seem to be more oriented to photo editing than plain ol' drawing. I know I could use 3rdPlanit for scenery too, but for a plain 2D drawing I found PSP to be faster.
I guess you could call my shed a small barn. It's made of wood and insulated, and heated with an electric heater. I can keep it fairly comfortable in the winter time. My house doesn't have a basement, and the garage gets too dirty/has too much kid traffic to safely house a layout. So it's the shed or nothing, and nothing is not an option
My first layout was built in the late 70s/early 80s when I was a teenager. It was two nested loops on a 5x9 table with no specific theme other than running trains around. I did have ATSF power, except for a Pennsy 0-6-0 I bought on a whim. Had a lot of fun with that until college and career took over.
I'll keep you guys updated on progress!
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - P5se Camelback - 07-03-2010
O'D ...
Your story sounds a lot like mine (except for the ATSF -- mine was all Pennsy), and, as with you, the research and planning became the substitute for actual layout building. I have now subscribed to this thread and will be following it very closely, as you and I are in very much the same place ... right-of-way identified and surveyed, track plan drawn and reviewed, and construction about to commence.
My original track plan is now under serious review due to concerns uncovered by my entry in the 2010 Summer Structure Challenge, and what had been merely a collection of boringly uninteresting unrelated structures has morphed into a "campus" of interesting industrial structures, all related to one large industry. This newly introduced industry will solve one problem (hiding the entrance to hidden staging) but since it will be requiring another siding or two, a different problem has risen its very ugly head ... a 24"R curve which (on paper) hadn't been a problem as it ran behind the boringly uninteresting, unrelated structures and some judiciously placed trees and fences, I now realize takes up SPACE that hadn't been a problem when I layed out the original track plan prior to adding this "campus" of structures. So ... some re-alignment of visible track in this corner of the proposed layout, as well as what leads up to it and what is beyond it will need to be addressed for everything to become "copasetic" again. But the result will be much more interesting and probably become an area that is a lot more fun to switch when we get around to Operation!
So, while I scratch my head about how to hide a "hidden" track, and busy myself with trying to fit a complex of buildings that I must complete building by 7 September into an area of which I'm not quite sure of its eventual size ...
hock: I will be watching this thread with great interest, stealing as many good ideas as I can (don't we all ... at least use them as "starting off points?") and observing how much farther along you get in the construction of a layout than I do. I say that because I'm legendary for second-guessing everything and coming up to the "last blow of the horn" on a project with too much to do and having to ignite the midnight oil to meet a deadline!
It's a damn good thing I'm retired!
So ... Let's get building! :!:
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - odave - 07-10-2010
Some pictures to post. First, here's the layout shed, 10'x18'
![[Image: IMG_1612a-1.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/IMG_1612a-1.jpg)
Back in May I was all set to start laying track and I took one last look at the state of Lakefield's backdrop. I knew that the blue I had chosen for the sky was too pale under the actual lighting conditions, but I wasn't sure how much it bugged me. I realized that if I were going to change it, this was the last "easiest" time to change it before trackwork was down. So I bit the bullet and removed the benchwork from the walls. I did the repaint this weekend:
Before
![[Image: IMG_1616a-1.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/IMG_1616a-1.jpg)
After
![[Image: IMG_1664a-1.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/IMG_1664a-1.jpg)
Before
![[Image: IMG_8761a-1.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/IMG_8761a-1.jpg)
After
![[Image: IMG_1662a-1.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/IMG_1662a-1.jpg)
Next step, re-mount the Lakefield benchwork:
![[Image: IMG_1619a-1.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/IMG_1619a-1.jpg)
One lesson I learned when I built the benchwork - do knot forget to check for knots!
![[Image: IMG_8741a-1.jpg]](http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/odave807/ModelRailroad/svw/IMG_8741a-1.jpg)
I was in a hurry and forgot to check. Luckily the split went to the bottom rather than the top, so the joist wasn't wasted.
That's it for now...
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - scubadude - 07-10-2010
P5se Camelback Wrote:O'D ...Huh :?:
Your story sounds a lot like mine (except for the ATSF -- mine was all Pennsy), and, as with you, the research and planning became the substitute for actual layout building. I have now subscribed to this thread and will be following it very closely, as you and I are in very much the same place ... right-of-way identified and surveyed, track plan drawn and reviewed, and construction about to commence.
My original track plan is now under serious review due to concerns uncovered by my entry in the 2010 Summer Structure Challenge, and what had been merely a collection of boringly uninteresting unrelated structures has morphed into a "campus" of interesting industrial structures, all related to one large industry. This newly introduced industry will solve one problem (hiding the entrance to hidden staging) but since it will be requiring another siding or two, a different problem has risen its very ugly head ... a 24"R curve which (on paper) hadn't been a problem as it ran behind the boringly uninteresting, unrelated structures and some judiciously placed trees and fences, I now realize takes up SPACE that hadn't been a problem when I layed out the original track plan prior to adding this "campus" of structures. So ... some re-alignment of visible track in this corner of the proposed layout, as well as what leads up to it and what is beyond it will need to be addressed for everything to become "copasetic" again. But the result will be much more interesting and probably become an area that is a lot more fun to switch when we get around to Operation!
So, while I scratch my head about how to hide a "hidden" track, and busy myself with trying to fit a complex of buildings that I must complete building by 7 September into an area of which I'm not quite sure of its eventual size ...
I will be watching this thread with great interest, stealing as many good ideas as I can (don't we all ... at least use them as "starting off points?") and observing how much farther along you get in the construction of a layout than I do. I say that because I'm legendary for second-guessing everything and coming up to the "last blow of the horn" on a project with too much to do and having to ignite the midnight oil to meet a deadline!
It's a damn good thing I'm retired!
So ... Let's get building! :!:
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - Ralph - 07-10-2010
Backdrop looks great!
Ralph
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - nachoman - 07-10-2010
Another separate building! Nice... is it heated?
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - P5se Camelback - 07-10-2010
scubadude wrote " Huh? :?: "
Uh ... I apologize ... I guess I kinda hijacked the thread there, for a couple minutes and just babbled on in a late night ramble ... my bad ... I should never start typing a posting when I'm tired and having trouble staying awake ... I'll shut up now!
Re: ODave's Saginaw Valley & Western - Gary S - 07-10-2010
I've often looked at the outbuildings in the parking lot of Home Depot and wondered how they would be for a layout. Is this building a pre-fab one or did you build it from scratch?