Steam... - Printable Version

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Steam... - COMBAT - 12-20-2008

I dont know if this is posted in the right spot but here it goes. :?

I am looking for a HO Steam engine that would fit into this style of layout. Its modern and I know steam isnt but I want one!
http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=184

Now, here are the details. It MUST have DCC, SOUND and all the bells and whistles so to speak. Smoke would be nice but not a must. Goldth I also want it to be able to run on 22" radius. It doesnt need to be huge but it does need to go along with the Road names I am doing now which are BNSF, BN, Santa Fe, Candian National or BC Rail. I am modeling the Pacific Northwest so that is an option too. Now the biggest issue is I dont think anyone makes a steam engine in those road names. I DO NOT WANT BRASS, so please dont suggest it.

If you have any suggestions PLEASE let me know. I tried to look around but dont know ANYTHING about steam engines. Oh, I did see a show called Extreme Trains on the History Channel. http://www.history.com/minisites/extreme-trains They showed a Steam Engine that has been converted from Coal to Oil?? Here is an excerpt from the shows details:
The Union Pacific's famous 844 steam locomotive, built in 1944, is the longest-running steam train in America. It still runs on UP's mainlines today. Matt rides the 844 on its annual outing, taking 750 rail fans from Denver to the biggest rodeo in the world in Cheyenne, Wyoming. This train is so popular that traffic jams form along the tracks when it runs, as people "chase the train." This episode also looks at the gold rush of the 1850s.

Now, I wouldnt mind a Steam Engine that has been converted to this type of operation but again, no one makes a model like this do they? 35

Hope you arent laughing at me to hard yet as I am serious about the engine I want to buy but dont know what to get. Thanks in advance for your help!

Re: Steam... - Dave Harris sctchbld - 12-20-2008

844 is a 4-8-4 northern type & is probably made by many non brass makers. Do a search thru Walthers & I am sure you will find one, perhaps the Exact one you want, the UP 844. Being the Last steam loco built for UP there will be a LOT of interest in it.

Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-20-2008

Only thing is I dont model UP.. I want a road name in what I am modeling. Sad

Re: Steam... - Puddlejumper - 12-20-2008

SP Daylight 4449 saw some run time in BNSF paint on BNSF rails. It is also a 4-8-4.

Dave

Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-20-2008

Puddlejumper Wrote:SP Daylight 4449 saw some run time in BNSF paint on BNSF rails. It is also a 4-8-4.

Dave

Cool, who makes one? Also, will this 4-8-4 run on 22"?

Re: Steam... - Mileswestern - 12-20-2008

I wouldn't suggest running a 4-8-4 on 22" radius, you can do it but it looks stupid..

You're asking for too much..frankly. The small steam that probably wouldn't be seen on the mainline is generic and doesn't represent any of the prototypes you mentioned. (like the Roundhouse 2-6-0 2-8-0 or 4-4-0 although they have sound)

All of the Bachmann models either represent a Ma&Pa prototype (4-4-0,4-6-0), follow Harriman road (IC, UP, SP) building practices or are obscure (USRA 2-6-6-2, 2-10-0 decapod) models of rare steamers. Anything larger than a 2-8-0 will look and run terrible on 22" radius curves.

Nobody has produced a worthy 4-6-2 that isn't distinctly PRR.

I would wait a couple of years and save your money for the possible release of some NP or GN prototypes with sound and DCC. They're bound to appear.

All of the strictly ATSF steamer prototypes in HO are all too large to run, espically the behemoth 4-8-4 with that 12 wheel tender! The 2-10-2's from BLI aren't much smaller and will require a 30" radius to look right.

Just my opinion, from the desk of someone who's researched model steam locomotives for the last 5 years.

Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-20-2008

Good to know! Thank you for your feed back. I went out and looked with the suggestion of the 4-8-4 and I found these.

Some of these are listed as 18" recommened. I assume they mean minimum. When you say stupid, what do you mean? You also call them " behemoth " why? They were big. Since I know nothing of steam can you explain? Thanks for your help!! Cheers

http://www.mthhotrains.com/Gs4.asp

http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/BLI_5162_BlueLine_ATSF_4_8_4_Unlettered_DC_Sound_DCC_Ready_HO-4846-1852.html
[Image: neotmp6224731E22D85E3.jpg]

http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/BLI_5161_BlueLine_ATSF_4_8_4_3759_DC_Sound_DCC_Ready_HO-4845-1852.html
[Image: bli-5161.jpg]

http://www.broadway-limited.com/catalog/SP_Cab_Forward_AC4_5_HO-1851-1.html
[Image: neotmp621782649330032.jpg]

http://www.broadway-limited.com/catalog/PCM_SP_Cab_Forward_AC_12_4_8_8_2_HO-1763-1.html
[Image: neotmp26538.jpg]

http://www.precisioncraftmodels.com/BLISounds/atsf2102.swf

http://www.broadway-limited.com/catalog/BLI_AT_SF_3800_Class_2_10_2_2_10_4_HO-1779-1.html
[Image: neotmp964362.jpg]

Re: Steam... - doctorwayne - 12-21-2008

Your chances of finding the exact loco for which you're looking are, in my estimation, nil. BN, BNSF, and BCRail were all created after the demise of regular-service steam, and any reasonably close model of a Santa Fe loco that I can think of is BIG. That leaves you with only Canadian National, and, as any Canadian modeller can tell you, nobody makes an accurate and affordable model of a Canadian steamer, save for the TH&B version of the Broadway NYC Hudson, something, I think, that's not generally available and wasn't that good of a deal.
In my opinion, your best bet would be to buy a painted, but unlettered Bachmann Spectrum Consolidation. These locos are available with DCC and sound. Skip the smoke - it leaves a residue on the rails that's a poor conductor of electricity and it doesn't look very realistic, anyway. The Bachmann loco is a great runner, good puller, and has good detail, and it will run on your 22" radius. I have seven of them and I'd buy more of them if I needed more locos. If you want to do quite a bit of modification, these locos can be converted to fairly accurate models of several classes of CNR 2-8-0s, but my suggestion is to merely letter it for CNR and enjoy it as it is. Or, letter it for one of your other favourites - nobody here is going to report you for modelling something that never was - I have a basement full of that kind of stuff. Wink Big Grin
I modified four of mine to look like this: (click on the photo to see the front end - I don't know why it's cut-off here)
[album]164[/album]

The other three will be re-built as CNR locos, and will involve a lot of modifications.

Wayne

Re: Steam... - Mileswestern - 12-21-2008

Combat, I'm always glad to help.

What I mean by "stupid" is that they'll perform very poorly around 18 and 22" radius curves, they'll hang WAY over the centerline of the track, possibly taking out lineside scenery (I know this one from first hand experience) The manufacturers say the whole 18" radius thing so they will attract the gullible...er.."first time buyer" No steam locomotive larger than a 2-8-2 should run on any curve sharper than 30" radius.

Large steam isn't all it's cracked up to be either. The Rondhouse 4-4-0 can outpull most of the larger steamers thanks to a well-balanced design and traction tires.

I myself am a fan of small steam. What's more appealing to watch: One large steamer squealing and jerking around 22" radius curves, derailing if your track is even a small bit out of line, or....

Two small steam locomotives double heading up a grade with a long consist of cars?

All of the predecessor roads of the BN (NP, GN, SP&S, CB&Q) all had VERY distinctive steam locomotives with unmistakable traits.

The GN was a fan of the Belpaire square firebox, like the PRR, but used oil burning steamers.
The NP has a distinctive high headlight, among other features which could be recreated with some kitbashing.
The CB&Q had a wide variety of interesting steam locomotives, but like the SP&S, they're all too distinctive to model easily.

Nobody has produced a good looking GN, NP or CB&Q locomotive. With ONE notable exception that may just be the way to go! Look at the BLI heavy mikado here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.broadway-limited.com/catalog/BLI_USRA_Heavy_Mikado_2_8_2_HO-1811-1.html">http://www.broadway-limited.com/catalog ... 811-1.html</a><!-- m -->
I would personally purchase the CB&Q model, as it's the only correct one of the bunch.

The Santa Fe models of steam locomotives fall into three catagories:
-Freelanced crap produced to cash in on the ATSF craze (Think warbonnet F7's and lionel)
-Prototypically correct, but REALLY oddball locomotives, like the Proto 2000 heritage ex-NW Y6b 2-8-8-2's that the ATSF had for 5 minutes before retiring them shortly after WW1 ended. Another example is the Bachmann spectrum 2-10-0 that the ATSF owned a single locomotive second hand after merging with the Kansas City, New Mexico & Orient.
- Models that are either too old to have been produced with sound or even too old to have been equipped with a can motor or nickel-silver wheelsets (Like the MDC Roundhouse 4-4-2/2-6-2/2-8-0)

Hope this helps!

Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-21-2008

Thanks for the info. So, in short dont buy steam. Icon_lol

I dont really want more then one engine and I am not gonna pull anything but a few passenger cars. I do want realism and the size isnt as important to me as the look and the realism ect that is available out there. I like what this engine has to offer,

http://www.mthhotrains.com/Gs4.asp
CLICK HERE TO SE IT IN ACTION!
http://www.mthhotrains.com/newsdetail.asp?artid=330

The video shows what makes this engine neat. The smoke with the chuff is cool and a feature I would want. I do not want an engine that is going to be hanging all over the place so on 22" curves was is the max size of an engine I would want? Do they make it in the road names I am looking for with the features I want?

Thanks again and anyone else, please feel free to voice your opinions and experinces. It is greatly appreciated! Worship

Re: Steam... - Mileswestern - 12-21-2008

The GS-3/4 is THE most beautiful locomotve ever built IMHO, but how many times have I warned you about running a 4-8-4 on 22" radius curves?! IT WON'T WORK & IT WILL LOOK BAD.

Now I didn't say don't buy steam, but if you want the realism you're after, I gave you some suggestions just read my last post more carefully.

This locomotive is what you're looking for to run on 22" radius curves:
Meet the USRA 2-8-2 Mikado.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mthhotrains.com/mikado.asp">http://www.mthhotrains.com/mikado.asp</a><!-- m -->
It has Smoke, Sound and is from MTH.

All you'd need to do is buy the unlettered version and decal it for the CB&Q and there you have it! Problem solved?

You can do whatever you want, it's your purchasing decision, but I hope this helps.

Re: Steam... - MasonJar - 12-21-2008

Since it's a modern layout, you can "justifiably" choose any steamer you want. Just make up the appropriate story... Wink

I would second Wayne's recommendation of the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0. Good, solid engine, and pulls well. Plus, you can get it already lettered for Canadian National Railways. Throw in a Tsunami sound decoder and you'd have one sweet engine. I really like mine, although I have yet to add sound to it.

The Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-0 is also a great engine, but maybe smaller than you were thinking?

Andrew

Re: Steam... - nachoman - 12-21-2008

My recommendation would be to create a fictional tourist line that occasionally has trackage rights on the nearby mainline. But that seems to contradict your realism criteria, sooo....I am going to suggest a Bachmann GS4, SP daylight. It has run many excursions in your modeled area, and is a prototypical model that would not require extra details or kitbashing. There are other steamers that have run excursions in that part of the country, but none (that I am aware of) have been produced in HO. Now, you could make a reasonable representative of any locomotives by modifying a "generic" one as Wayne says, but again this seems to contradict your criteria.

Miles is correct that longer steamers going around sharp curves looks silly. But I will add that the loco will look far lest silly than the passenger cars it is pulling Smile In other words, if you are okay running 85' passenger cars on 22" radius, don't hesitate to run a 4-8-4. The bachmann engine I mentioned above should work just fine on 22".

Re: Steam... - Selector - 12-21-2008

For the size of curves you have, and considering it will be a one-only, I can't think of a better candidate than a PRR or other railroad's Pacific 4-6-2. This would today be strictly an excursion engine, fast, powerful, and it would look waaaaaaaaay better on tight radii than any 4-8-4 Northern type engine. Otherwise, stick with small 6 coupled engines to the extent you can. The only 8-coupled I would personally run, and enjoy running, has already been suggested by Doc Wayne.

-Crandell

Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-21-2008

Thank you to everyone giving me their opinions. Does anyone have a steam engine that they can post a picture of on a 22" curve for perspecitve purposes? I would really like to see this over hang we are all talking about. I am ok to scarfice some things for the over all goal. You just have to on some stuff.

I like this engine a lot.
http://www.mthhotrains.com/Gs4.asp
[Image: 80-3118-1.jpg]

Its the right road, the color is cool and has all the details I want. My only concern is the over hang and possibly hitting cliffs and such next to the track. I could always Shoot the areas it would hit but Id really prefer not to do that. If anyone has a picture they would be willing to show I would appreciate it.

Thanks! Thumbsup