+- (https://bigbluetrains.com)
+-- Forum: Mainline (https://bigbluetrains.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=17)
+--- Forum: HO Modeling (https://bigbluetrains.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=21)
+--- Thread: Steam... (/showthread.php?tid=294)
Re: Steam... - nkp_174 - 12-30-2008
Smoke is typically viewed a toy train item. That is why no one offers it. I've had HO locomotives that smoked, and frankly, it looked terrible. It didn't add any realism at all...the exhaust didn't match the cylinder strokes...in addition to being the wrong shape, color, scent...etc...
It is more popular in larger scales because they have more toy influences. Lionel until recently was far more of a maker of toy trains than model trains...MTH cut their teeth reissuing old Lionel stuff. They skirt the line between toy and model...hence 2-rail and 3-rail offerings. This allows those whom are into toy trains to become modelers...and vice-versa. (some of their models today are gorgeous) LGB was also on the interface of toy and model. It doesn't make their products any less interesting, but they have a certain sector of their market which still enjoys toy train gimmicks...smoke...more so than in smaller scales. The drawback of the residue (which is well known) is not felt as badly in larger scales. You also see this in the types of track and wheels that are used...large scales frequently have steel on steel...which causes sparks in HO and doesn't work in N...due to electrical conductivity.
Bachmann's old N&W J did have smoke...but I don't think they've ever offered it for their Daylight. Think of it being like an Athearn Genesis SD-70 having a button on the top which caused the engineer to pop out of the cab and wave...most people that want the detail of the Genesis model don't want the toy-like feature. If you are brave and want to kitbash, you can probably add a smoke unit...but you might find a circuit board in the smokebox which prevents such an installation.
Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-30-2008
The reason I asked more about the smoke install is because the Broadway engines have the option. I look at the smoke systems that I saw on the video and it adds something to an engine that has all of these moving parts. The fact that the sound and the chuff work together adds something to it for me. If it was just smoking then I would see the point of toy like. Similar to the older stuff.
It just seems strange to me that the smoke systems are not made better or out of something that doesnt cause so much damage. I was also wondering if yours had not caused a damaged section from the oil on your layout, would you still use it? I am guessing you got a smoked engine for some reason. Thanks again!
Re: Steam... - nkp_174 - 12-30-2008
COMBAT Wrote:The reason I asked more about the smoke install is because the Broadway engines have the option. I look at the smoke systems that I saw on the video and it adds something to an engine that has all of these moving parts. The fact that the sound and the chuff work together adds something to it for me. If it was just smoking then I would see the point of toy like. Similar to the older stuff.
It just seems strange to me that the smoke systems are not made better or out of something that doesnt cause so much damage. I was also wondering if yours had not caused a damaged section from the oil on your layout, would you still use it? I am guessing you got a smoked engine for some reason. Thanks again!
That locomotive has an interesting history. I received for christmas in first grade, along with an aux tender and 6 matching rivarossi passenger cars. The early Bachmann 4-8-4s had a design flaw with their split axles...so when it broke, they replaced it. It broke again, and my brother and I destroyed it. Elementary school kids. I don't recall what trouble it caused. We we renewed our interest in trains during high school, we bought a new Bachmann Plus J. It also had a smoke unit, but we didn't use it. It added nothing for us...so I don't have much personal experience with it from the time when I've been old enough to remember. I then had an accident with that J, and it was replaced with a new Spectrum J that doesn't have smoke.
While in high school and college, I began to suspect that the oils that were applied to the track actually caused more harm than good...same thing with regular track cleaning. I'm not alone in this view, as it has been discussed on the old forum. I don't allow any kind of oil into my train rooms...and that includes the smoke oil. It isn't methane...it does not burn clean (side note, you don't smell natural gas...you smell the sulfur that is added to let you know if it is leaking). I know exactly the scent...I can remember that from childhood.
For the most part, you can go ahead and find a locomotive with a smoke unit and not worry about it. If you notice problems, then stop using the smoke...and see about disabling the smoke unit.
Re: Steam... - Tom - 12-30-2008
I'm still pretty convinced that not only will the 2-10-4 by Bachmann that you already have will not only run ok on DCC to try it out, I would actually bet you a Coke it has a smoke unit in it if you want to see one in action for yourself. Give it a try, a DCC system will run one analog engine, so see if it works for you. If you have any sewing machine oil or gun oil, put a few drops down the stack if it still runs and see what happens.
The Proto steamers are NICE, VERY nice, nicely detailed, but no smoke option in any of them that I am aware of. I would give the one you already have a try and see what it does. It may fire right up (the reason I say that is because I have a similar Bachman steamer that is about the same age and close to your 2-10-4 and it still runs like a champ).
Also too, not sure if you were aware, Bachmann makes the GS-4 4-8-4 in various paint schemes with a smoker in it. I had one of those (that took a dive off the layout and died a crushing death unfortunately) that I bought for Alicia since she loves the Daylight. It smoked and it ran pretty decently. Much cheaper alternative to the MTH GS-4, but it not DCC ready, you'd have to hard wire a decoder, not sure if that is something you like to do or not.
Re: Steam... - Tom - 12-30-2008
Two other things about smoke, if you DO have a smoke unit in the engine you eventually choose, it is kind of a "use it or lose it" proposition. Basically it is an electrically operated burner, so if you just add smoke sporadically, you run the risk of burning up the smoke unit. In other words, you have to keep oil in it and keep using the smoke unit or risk losing it for good. Not a bad thing if you decide a smoke unit is for you, just a heads up.
Also, I almost forgot, Alicia found scented smoke fluid on E-bay a while back. I have an MTH O Scale DDA40X Centennial and though I don't model O Scale (I bought it to sit on my fireplace mantel as I have a thing for a certain Centennial) and of course, the redneck in me HAD to see and hear it run just once. On the advice of a Youtube video, I used lamp oil for the smoke units in it (it has 2 engines and 2 smoke units), and boy was THAT a mistake! I smoked us out of our house. My neighbor still gives me wierd looks when I see her outside. Alicia had looked into getting a loop of Lionel 3 rail roadbed track and a few MTH and Atlas O cars to run that monster around the Christmas tree, and of course, she HAD to have "baking cookies" scented smoke fluid.
hock: There were all sorts of scents, candy cane, baking bread, baking cookies, oil fired steam engine scent, coal fired steamer scent, pine tree scent (I know, under a Christmas tree?!), diesel smoke scent, and a few others I can't remember. She found them on E-bay and I just looked and saw a few the other day as well. We ended up not doing the O Scale loop for the Centennial because she requires at LEAST a 72" (?!) MINIMUM radius curve to operate on. That makes for a 12' circle around the Christmas tree. Compared to my On30 loop around the tree, that's like killing flies with a sledge hammer, a little overkill. Not to mention we were looking at spending over $700 for what we wanted train and track wise and that was for just a simple circle, so we decided to go On30. Alicia wants me to add Tsunamis and smoke units to her two On30 2-6-0's (she STILL wants a smoking engine that smells like baking cookies!), but *I* am not going to attempt it.
Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-31-2008
Tom Wrote:Two other things about smoke, if you DO have a smoke unit in the engine you eventually choose, it is kind of a "use it or lose it" proposition. Basically it is an electrically operated burner, so if you just add smoke sporadically, you run the risk of burning up the smoke unit. In other words, you have to keep oil in it and keep using the smoke unit or risk losing it for good. Not a bad thing if you decide a smoke unit is for you, just a heads up.
My understanding is you can turn the smoke unit off and on through the DCC control. You can also adjust its output.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.railking1gauge.com/detail.asp?item=80-3118-1">http://www.railking1gauge.com/detail.asp?item=80-3118-1</a><!-- m -->
When using a DCC controller, the following Proto-Sound 3.0 locomotive features are accessible:
(F8) Smoke on/off
Oh this too... (F28) Train Wreck
DCS Locomotive Features
Smoke on/off
Variable Smoke Output Settings
I think it may end up being this engine... Its not my first choice as far as looks because it doesnt have all the open detail look I want but it does have the smoke, the sound, the dcc, the correct road name, the nice color and shine I would want in a restored engine. Hell, it even has the correct area.... Is it a for sure deal, not yet. Is that one in the lead. A definate YES!
![[Image: 80-3118-1.jpg]](http://www.mth-railking.com/photos/80-3118-1.jpg)
Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 12-31-2008
Tom Wrote:I'm still pretty convinced that not only will the 2-10-4 by Bachmann that you already have will not only run ok on DCC to try it out, I would actually bet you a Coke it has a smoke unit in it if you want to see one in action for yourself. Give it a try, a DCC system will run one analog engine, so see if it works for you. If you have any sewing machine oil or gun oil, put a few drops down the stack if it still runs and see what happens.
The Proto steamers are NICE, VERY nice, nicely detailed, but no smoke option in any of them that I am aware of. I would give the one you already have a try and see what it does. It may fire right up (the reason I say that is because I have a similar Bachman steamer that is about the same age and close to your 2-10-4 and it still runs like a champ).
Also too, not sure if you were aware, Bachmann makes the GS-4 4-8-4 in various paint schemes with a smoker in it. I had one of those (that took a dive off the layout and died a crushing death unfortunately) that I bought for Alicia since she loves the Daylight. It smoked and it ran pretty decently. Much cheaper alternative to the MTH GS-4, but it not DCC ready, you'd have to hard wire a decoder, not sure if that is something you like to do or not.
This is my concern. The smoke unit in the engine I posted is clearly old. Have they improved on them since then, I would think so. Do I know for sure, not a clue. The fact that the one from MTH smokes and chuffs in sync tells me yes.
I did not know about Bachmann. I looked at their stuff and didnt see it. Are you sure its still available?
Re: Steam... - Russ Bellinis - 01-01-2009
I looked at Bachmann's web page. It didn't list any 4-8-4's except the Norfolk & Western "J". they have made a number of production runs of the S.P. Gs4 over the past few years, so they may have moved on to other models. It will probably be back before too long, but then again I thought the Santa Fe 4-8-4 would be back soon after the first Bachmann Plus run and it took at least 4-5 years before they ran it again!
Re: Steam... - nkp_174 - 01-01-2009
Perhaps a good resource for Bachmann's offerings is their UK page. I've long felt that their US version stinks...
Here is the UK version: http://www.bachmann.co.uk/price1.php?prod_selected=americanho
Walthers is usually the best place to find pictures, but the Bachmann UK site is the only place they index their offerings by model rather than category (I don't need to see 10 variations on a 2-10-0, just that they have a 2-10-0).
Re: Steam... - Russ Bellinis - 01-01-2009
Just looked at your link, nkp_174. They show it out of stock on all Gs4 models. You are right, though it is a lot easier to find a particular product than the American Bachmann page!
Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 01-01-2009
Thank you for the link. I too didnt see anything available.
Re: Steam... - nkp_174 - 01-01-2009
Russ Bellinis Wrote:Just looked at your link, nkp_174. They show it out of stock on all Gs4 models. You are right, though it is a lot easier to find a particular product than the American Bachmann page!
I just don't understand why their american page is so un-user friendly. I love their British page...it'll list new items long before their american page (such as when the new 4-6-0 was announced)
It isn't a big deal if they aren't currently producing it, just check on ebay. (I searched for Bachmann 4-8-4). There are currently 38 non-N&W Bachmann 4-8-4s on ebay (avoid the expensive buy-it-now...the only Bachmann 4-8-4s worth $140 are the Spectrum versions). The biggest caution here is to know which version you're getting. If it is factory DCC equipped, it is the current version. (Bachmann plus engines date from the 1990s and are ok...they typically have too strong of springs on the rear and lead trucks which I clip to improve pulling power).
Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 01-01-2009
I am afraid of not getting what I ordered from Ebay. May cost more but I get whats advertised and a warranty from the manufacturer. Besides, I dont ever pay retail so its not a big deal.
Re: Steam... - COMBAT - 01-09-2009
So, I have narrowed it down to these two..
A Broadway Limited engine,
![[Image: bli-5161.jpg]](http://www.broadway-limited.com/images/products/bli-5161.jpg)
Info:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/BLI_5161_BlueLine_ATSF_4_8_4_3759_DC_Sound_DCC_Ready_HO-4845-1852.html">http://www.broadway-limited.com/product ... -1852.html</a><!-- m -->
Or a Mikes Train House engine,
Info:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.railking1gauge.com/detail.asp?item=80-3118-1">http://www.railking1gauge.com/detail.asp?item=80-3118-1</a><!-- m -->
Video:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://extranet.mth-railking.com/videos/see2.asp?show=80st12252v&size=big">https://extranet.mth-railking.com/video ... v&size=big</a><!-- m -->
What say YOU?
Re: Steam... - Tom - 01-09-2009
Two great choices! For what it is worth, I like the MTH GS-4 you have pictured there. The 4449 has a BIG history in the PNW.