+- (https://bigbluetrains.com)
+-- Forum: Branchline (https://bigbluetrains.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=45)
+--- Forum: Layouts (https://bigbluetrains.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=46)
+--- Thread: Southern Pacific Switching Layout (/showthread.php?tid=3248)
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Justinmiller171 - 08-14-2011
faraway Wrote:May be you can get two or three flex tracks, a turnout and two boxcars now or at least soon . It may be in poor condition and from a garage sale etc. It is important to get a feeling about the real size and volume of the stuff you are planning.I already have started that, I have built a couple of building mock-up for the top portion of the layout and put down some atlas snap-track and flex-track just to get a feeling of how it will look and I like it!
faraway Wrote:I forgot, get a truck with a long trailer. You will have a tendency to make all roads far to narrow
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-14-2011
faraway Wrote:I forgot, get a truck with a long trailer. You will have a tendency to make all roads far to narrow
I third that! When I was originally planning my layout, it did not occur to me how big a tractor trailer REALLY was. The issue in my case was not really roads, (a two lane road is about 3.5 inches in HO), but the truck docks. On my original layout incarnation, if the truck was backed to the loading dock, the tractor end was right at the fence line of an adjacent structure!
It is important to have some of these around to figure realistic sizes. You can also try measuring real life locations with the Google Earth ruler tool (in the program, not the website), to get a better idea what the spaces should be.
Observe, my layout June 2007. I had just recently purchased a tractor trailer and finally realized that no truck would ever fit into that space (though I did find a small athearn box truck sold with American Hardware Supply logos on it that could have fit). This was about the time i figured that squeezing a small portion of an oil refinery into my layout was also a bad idea. Getting rid of that would not only be more realistic track/train wise, but would open up some more room for trucks.
![[Image: ussnewjersey025tb9.jpg]](http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1179/ussnewjersey025tb9.jpg)
I removed the walthers fence i had started, and lifted the buildings off the layout. You can still see where i weathered the road differently, but i figured it would be alright.
![[Image: ussnewjersey039bf5.jpg]](http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/539/ussnewjersey039bf5.jpg)
I know you're set, but again, don't worry about things being perfect. Changes like this happen on all layouts, not matter how experienced. The more you see, the less you know, and there will always be something you can do differently to be more realistic.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Justinmiller171 - 08-14-2011
Here are my answers to Lance Mindheim's layout planning questions:
*What aspect(s) of the hobby do I truly enjoy the most:
Operations, Researching, and building scenery
*What resources can I, without question, consistently bring to the hobby. By resources I specifically mean time, energy, and commitment. Lack of awareness of energy levels, available time, and commitment are probably the the largest stumbling blocks to being a successful participant in the hobby:
Besides for school I have lots of time to work on the layout, If I had unlimited funds I would be working on the layout all of the time
*If I build a layout, how will I interact with it? Will my satisfaction come from being an operator, railfan, or simply the joy and satisfaction of building things. Maybe having a miniature copy of a place and time you find truly appealing is your motivation:
I like operating and building a miniature version of a place.
*What is my commitment to self awareness to find something that truly interests me. If the overall theme is “just something with bridges, tunnels, a coal mine and pier” is that what truly interests you or are you just settling?
Things that interest me: Southern Pacific in Oregon, Appalachian Coal Mining, Santa Fe in Arizona, and ISLs
*What is my attention span for a given theme? If you only want the layout to last several years that’s fine as long as you acknowledge it:
This layout will last for about 2 years
*If your primary interest is operations, what type of operations?
Local switching operations
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Justinmiller171 - 08-14-2011
ocalicreek Wrote:You may think you've been planning a model railroad...when it looks to me more like you've been designing a layout (or multiple layouts). :|
Well, since I won't be able to work on the layout for awhile, I guess I should actually "plan" a layout. I posted my answers to Lance's questions in my last post.
I think the problem with all of my designs has been that they don't have a clear theme, I love researching railroads so I really want to model a prototype switching area.
I haven't really fallen in love with any railroad yet, so I am open for almost anything as long as it is easily model-able.
If I am doing anything wrong at any-time please don't hesitate to yell at me
, I have a bad habit of reading through things quickly 
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - ocalicreek - 08-15-2011
Thank you for taking the time to revisit Lance's questions. I think his distinction between designing a layout vs planning a railroad is very important but I understand that's only my opinion and ultimately you have to decide if it is helpful or not. I'm not yelling at you...at least not yet...
Galen
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Brakie - 08-15-2011
Justinmiller171 Wrote:ocalicreek Wrote:You may think you've been planning a model railroad...when it looks to me more like you've been designing a layout (or multiple layouts). :|
Well, since I won't be able to work on the layout for awhile, I guess I should actually "plan" a layout. I posted my answers to Lance's questions in my last post.
I think the problem with all of my designs has been that they don't have a clear theme, I love researching railroads so I really want to model a prototype switching area.
I haven't really fallen in love with any railroad yet, so I am open for almost anything as long as it is easily model-able.
If I am doing anything wrong at any-time please don't hesitate to yell at me
Justin,Its always better to plan a layout that fills your needs even if that means designing several and tweaking your last design before you even start construction and after the start of construction be willing to tweak some trackage if needed.
I have planed,tweak and re planed Slate Creek over the past several months until I was completely satisfied with the finish plan and ideas.The latest change is using C55 track instead of C80 track-a better upgrade.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Justinmiller171 - 08-15-2011
I think the first step in "Planning" my layout should be to find a theme, I know I am going to build an ISL but I can't find a specific theme. Any ideas?
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Brakie - 08-16-2011
Justin,ISLs don't really need a theme other then choosing the industries you're good to start the planing stage-and as a caution I suggest the industries be completely independent businesses that ships and receives their cars off line and not from each other since they are close together..You see a shuttle truck service could handle that business much better then rail.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Russ Bellinis - 08-16-2011
I was planning to do a "prototypical" model of the LAJ in Vernon, Ca. After spending a day in Vernon with Reinhard exploring the LAJ, I changed my mind. I saw a number of buildings that I want to model that are not close to each other. In some cases they no longer receive rail service. I've decided to model specific buildings and industries that I like in Vernon and put them where they will fit on my layout without regard to their exact locations in Vernon. Some industries that no longer receive rail service will be served by rail on my layout. It will be more of a "proto-freelance" than an actual "prototype" ISL.
I've brought this up because the prototype doesn't have nearly the space restraints that we do as modelers. You may not find a specific industrial area that meets all of your criteria, or you may find that what you want to model is too spread out to fit your space, and has too many things in between what you want to model. Hopefully my layout will look like Vernon or South Central Los Angeles when I'm done, but it won't be an exact copy of any specific area.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - pgandw - 08-16-2011
Brakie Wrote:Justin,ISLs don't really need a theme other then choosing the industries you're good to start the planing stage-and as a caution I suggest the industries be completely independent businesses that ships and receives their cars off line and not from each other since they are close together..You see a shuttle truck service could handle that business much better then rail.
I have to agree with Brakie. I plan my switching areas by a combination of track plans I like, and selecting industries and an operating scheme for each industry.
For instance, the sawmill on my 1900-era logging line. A rail-served sawmill needs a decent quantity of logs coming in, and a stock pile of logs to pick from. In the west, water storage was the most common form of storage. A river/stream was dammed to create a log pond. So at a minimum I need a spur to serve the log dump. Cars would be unloaded, and then "parked" until a train into the woods could take them back as empties. Similarly, empty flat or box cars would be needed to load the sawn lumber, and parked until a train hauled the lumber to its destination. So another spur to load lumber, and some track to hold cars and put outgoing trains together. Typically, trains would deliver and pickup at the beginning and end of the day. If the mill was isolated, some sort of provision was made to bring workers to and from the site - could be a passenger car, or maybe just a flat car. Mills of that era were powered by steam; boilers would use wood scraps for fuel, so no need for loads of fuel. Logs and lumber would be moved around the mill by flumes, conveyors, rollers, or trams - or some combination of these methods. And that's just one industry.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Justinmiller171 - 08-16-2011
I have been looking at Ed's version of Lance's Palmetto Spur, I really would like to build a layout like that with only 4 turnouts and all turnouts facing the same direction. I think a runaround is a waste of space most of the time.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Green_Elite_Cab - 08-16-2011
Justinmiller171 Wrote:I have been looking at Ed's version of Lance's Palmetto Spur, I really would like to build a layout like that with only 4 turnouts and all turnouts facing the same direction. I think a runaround is a waste of space most of the time.
Its only a waste of space if you don't need to get to the locomotive or cars to the other side of a train. Besides, I don't think it takes up to much space in the grand scheme of things, they aren't very wide and they don't interupt track work that much. Its up to you. If you build the way you say now, than no, you don't need a run around. Besides, its not like your train is really going anywhere. once you switch all your industries, you're going to just reset the cars anyway.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Justinmiller171 - 08-16-2011
The Theme: Freelanced ISL in 1979 8-)
Can't wait to get some track so I can start testing some track arrangements.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - Brakie - 08-16-2011
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:Justinmiller171 Wrote:I have been looking at Ed's version of Lance's Palmetto Spur, I really would like to build a layout like that with only 4 turnouts and all turnouts facing the same direction. I think a runaround is a waste of space most of the time.
Its only a waste of space if you don't need to get to the locomotive or cars to the other side of a train. Besides, I don't think it takes up to much space in the grand scheme of things, they aren't very wide and they don't interupt track work that much. Its up to you. If you build the way you say now, than no, you don't need a run around. Besides, its not like your train is really going anywhere. once you switch all your industries, you're going to just reset the cars anyway.
There's a lot more to ISL operation then just "resetting the cars"..A good rotation plan is a must..The cars you picked up today must be removed and another inbound cut be placed on the layout.
I don't recall seeing many runarounds in industrial areas in fact many urban branch lines didn't have them-we pulled or reverse into the branch.Even today runarounds seems far and few between since a lot of locals still uses cabooses for long reverse moves or a locomotive on each end..
There is a reason for that..
The amount of work required to make a runaround takes time-lots of time since you must make a three step for in between,set handbrake on at least three cars,close air valves,release the three step and uncouple,pull to the switch,stop and unlock and line the switch,pull ahead,stop,close and lock the switch,pull ahead stop short of the switch,unlock and open the switch,pull clear of the switch,close and lock the switch,reverse back to your train,stop,check coupler alignment,couple to train,apply the three step,in between,connect the air hoses,open air valves,walk to the rear of the train checking air hoses and make sure all air line valves are open and release the handbrakes,walk back to the engine and pump up the air,make a brake test..
Of course back in the day we had 2 men to do the work plus we would need to switch the caboose to the proper end of the train or we may elect to reverse move(caboose lead) back to the yard.
Re: Southern Pacific Switching Layout - faraway - 08-16-2011
Brakie Wrote:...We model railroader have a tendency to forget what has to be done at the prototype and make our judgment based on what we do at our layout. Your list is a wonderful reminder of the real world :!:
The amount of work required to make a runaround takes time-lots of time since you must make a three step for in between,set handbrake on at least three cars,close air valves,release the three step and uncouple,pull to the switch,stop and unlock and line the switch,pull ahead,stop,close and lock the switch,pull ahead stop short of the switch,unlock and open the switch,pull clear of the switch,close and lock the switch,reverse back to your train,stop,check coupler alignment,couple to train,apply the three step,in between,connect the air hoses,open air valves,walk to the rear of the train checking air hoses and make sure all air line valves are open and release the handbrakes,walk back to the engine and pump up the air,make a brake test..
...