Second hand power on the Canadian National - Printable Version

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Second hand power on the Canadian National - cn nutbar - 04-15-2014

Here's some examples of locomotives purchased from other railroads that I've spotted in the Hamilton area

[Image: P1160480.jpg]
C40-8W 2099 originally ATSF 866 built 5/1992

[Image: P1160476.jpg]
C40-8 2124,ex UP/CNW 8577

[Image: P1160400.jpg]
SD60 ex Oakway Leasing 9087 built 12/1986

[Image: 666cd271-2b8b-453b-b147-338af0b252cf.jpg]
C40-8 2039,ex CREX,UP,CNW built 8/1990

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - Charlie B - 04-15-2014

I wonder if the proper duties were paid when these were imported, or did the just sneak them across the border. Similar to the fellow wheeling loads of sawdust out of the mill daily.. Icon_lol
Charlie

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - doctorwayne - 04-15-2014

Unless they're made where most of ourstuff is made nowadays (elsewhere), no duty, although CN probably had to pay the HST (Harmonised Sales Tax). Misngth


Wayne

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - cn nutbar - 04-15-2014

Canadian National not only purchased this SD70 from the Illinois Central,it purchased the entire railroad.

[Image: P1160693.jpg]

C40-8W 2458 was part of the package deal

[Image: P11604522-1.jpg]

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - cn nutbar - 04-20-2014

Some more CN acquisitions

[Image: P11208552-1-1.jpg]
BC RAIL C40-8M 4620

[Image: 8098ebf5-452c-479f-b136-0c100e746d16_zpsae8af8da.jpg]
IC SD70 1018

[Image: a56c51fa-257d-4a09-8945-70a6f5299189_zps8b302d20.jpg]
C40-8 ex CNW 8544

[Image: P1060993.jpg]
C40-8 ex CNW 8563 built in 1991

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - BR60103 - 04-20-2014

Philosophical question (or maybe philological)

Is it second hand if you buy the whole railroad? 35

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - Mr Fixit - 04-21-2014

doctorwayne Wrote:Unless they're made where most of ourstuff is made nowadays (elsewhere), no duty, although CN probably had to pay the HST (Harmonised Sales Tax). Misngth


Wayne

You have to Harmonise your Sales Taxes now days?
How does that work?

Singing in harmony with the sales person as you both fork out money for the government?

Mark

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - cn nutbar - 04-25-2014

CN #2035---C40-8 built 8/1990 as CNW #8536,ex UP 9058 and CREX 9058

[Image: 9dd50e62-9f94-4f61-b00e-de302c9bbe85.jpg]

CN #2106---C40-8 built 8/1991 as CNW 8559,ex UP 9071

[Image: 2be6e510-379b-4e76-b504-7123d9639432.jpg]

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - BR60103 - 04-25-2014

Mr Fixit Wrote:
doctorwayne Wrote:Unless they're made where most of ourstuff is made nowadays (elsewhere), no duty, although CN probably had to pay the HST (Harmonised Sales Tax). Misngth Wayne
You have to Harmonise your Sales Taxes now days?
How does that work?
Singing in harmony with the sales person as you both fork out money for the government? Mark


The federal and provincial governments both collect sales tax. When it was "harmonized" the province added it to all the things they'd exempted from it years ago.

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - cn nutbar - 04-30-2014

It was a good day for railfanning as I spotted four secondhand diesels

CN 2151---C40-8 ex ATSF 832 built 5/92
[Image: 0daa6847-aaeb-48b5-816d-4705aac87fb4.jpg]

CN 2116 C40-8,ex CNW 8569 and CN 2110 ex 8563,both built 9/91
[Image: 014-6.jpg]

Illinois Central SD70 1037
[Image: 002-9.jpg]

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - cn nutbar - 05-03-2014

A few more "used " locomotives were spotted at Bayview today

CN 5413,ex Oakway SD60 9045 built in Nov./1986
[Image: 5e5e01e7-e71f-46b6-b3d2-58cbabb9072b.jpg]

BC Rail C44-9W 4647 built 9/2000
[Image: 68d7d8c2-3f25-417f-b14b-24da115583bf.jpg]

Another SD60 ,5471 ex Oakway 9047
[Image: ceb78bd4-569c-471b-b01f-35e36444f9a4.jpg]

CN 2157,ex ATSF C40-8W 844,built in May 1992
[Image: 040.jpg]

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - Mr Fixit - 05-03-2014

I was aware of CN's efforts at purchasing second hand power after seeing numerous photos of the units before and after they were put through the workshops in Illinois, but my question concerns the pros and cons of such an exercise.
What is the likely lifespan of modern high power locos and what price advantage and/or tax/depreciation/insurance/operating benefits are to be gained from buying second hand?
Thoughts and comments most appreciated.
Mark

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - cn nutbar - 05-05-2014

Excellent question Mark---I wish I could provide answers to all your inquiries,hopefully someone else can provide more information.All of the used locomotives have been upgraded to meet the current CN specifications,so in many ways they are equal to new locomotives at a much reduced cost.I did find a couple of articles on CN's recent locomotive acquisitions.

The CN fleet as of 2007 consists of 1548 locomotives, most of which are products of either General Motors' Electro-Motive Division (EMD), or General Electric/GE Transportation Systems. Some locomotives more than 30 years old remain in service.

Much of the current roster is made up of EMD SD70I and EMD SD75I locomotives and GE C44-9W locomotives. Recently acquired are the new EMD SD70M-2 and GE ES44DC.

Beginning in the early summer months of 2010, CN purchased a small order of GE C40-8's and GE C40-8W's from Union Pacific and BNSF Railway, respectively. The intent was to use them as a cheaper power alternative. CN currently has 35 GE ES44ACs and EMD SD70ACes on order for 2013 delivery. These will be CN's first AC powered locomotives.[citation needed]




CN to acquire 161 locomotives to handle expected traffic increases, improve operational efficiency

Will help meet growth and customer focused service plans

MONTREAL, March 22, 2012 — CN (TSX: CNR) (NYSE: CNI) announced today a major locomotive acquisition program to accommodate anticipated traffic growth and to improve operational efficiency, enabling the railway to better serve its customers.

CN will acquire 65 new high-horsepower locomotives as well as 96 second-hand high-horsepower locomotives that will be upgraded.

Keith Creel, executive vice-president and chief operating officer, said: “CN's locomotive acquisition program represents a balanced, capital-effective approach to handle expected volume growth over the next two to five years and to meet the locomotive requirements resulting from customer focused service plans.

“The new and used motive power will enhance operational efficiency and reduce fuel consumption by permitting the retirement of older, high-maintenance locomotives and the cascading of less fuel-efficient main-line units into less-demanding yard and local switching operations, while providing additional locomotives to accommodate increased traffic.”

CN will take delivery in 2013-14 of 35 new ES44AC locomotives from GE Transportation (GE), and 30 new SD70ACe locomotives from Electro-Motive Diesel (EMD). The GE units have 4,400 and the SD70ACe units 4,300 horsepower.

Creel added: “The program includes the acquisition of alternating-current locomotives (AC), which will represent a first for CN. Our current fleet of approximately 1,900 locomotives employs direct-current (DC) traction technology, which has served us well because of the overall favourable grades of our network.

“We will harness the key advantage of AC traction – much higher adhesion or train-pulling ability at low speeds -- in assigning the new AC units to heavy-haul coal service in northern British Columbia and Alberta, where steep grades and sharp rail curvature make heavy demands on our locomotives.”

CN will purchase this year 42 second-hand GE Dash 8-40C locomotives, 11 leased GE Dash 8-40C locomotives, and 43 second-hand EMD SD60 locomotives. The Dash 8 units have 4,000 and the SD60s 3,800 horsepower. These direct-current technology locomotives will be upgraded to CN specifications.

The new locomotives CN is purchasing are equipped with distributed power technology (DP), a GE product, which improves train handling and fuel efficiency. The company expects that 50 per cent of its high-horsepower locomotive fleet will have DP by the end of 2013.



Railway environmental initiatives
Since 1995, Canadian railways have taken measures to reduce locomotive emissions under two Memoranda of Understanding. The first MOU was between the Railway Association of Canada (on behalf of the Canadian railways) and Environment Canada, and was in effect from 1995 to 2005. The second was between the Railway Association of Canada, Environment Canada and Transport Canada. It covered the period 2006–2010 and identified Canadian railway company commitments to reduce GHG and air pollutant emissions on a voluntary basis.

Canada's Class I freight railways invest in the economic and environmental sustainability of their railway operations through fleet renewal programs, technology improvements, and adoption of best practices. Both of Canada's Class I freight railways have fleet renewal programs in place to rebuild or replace less efficient locomotives with newer, more fuel-efficient models. New locomotives are built to a higher environmental standard and emit fewer GHG and CAC than older locomotives. Canada's Class I freight railways have continued to deploy new operational measures and technology aimed at reducing locomotive emissions. Initiatives to reduce fuel consumption and emissions include improvements to equipment, operations, technology and infrastructure.

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - Mr Fixit - 05-05-2014

Thanks for that posting cn nutbar, it sure helps to explain some of the thinking at CN.
Interesting that 50% of the high horsepower fleet should have DP capability by now.
As I understand it that will come in very handy during those very cold Canadian winters helping to keep those brake lines working and charged. DP also helps in train handling everywhere, but in particular where the grades are tough and the curves are sharp.
Mark

Late question; where is it in Canada that the trains spiral up and down through a mountain range?

Re: Second hand power on the Canadian National - doctorwayne - 05-05-2014

Mr Fixit Wrote:.....where is it in Canada that the trains spiral up and down through a mountain range?


There's some info on the Spiral Tunnels HERE


Wayne