Stein's Minneapolis Warehouse district 1957 (HO)
#16
Stein, it looks really good. Switching is my favorite part of model operations, so I really like your layout. As I looked at your track plan,and your plans for cassettes to move trains on and off the layout, it occurred to me that the barge dock just begs for a car float loading dock at the end of that barge dock track. That way you load a train on a cassette, put the cassette on a cart that is at the correct height to have the track line up. You then roll the cart into the end of the dock, and run the train onto the layout or remove another train the same way. If there is a switch on the end of the cassette, you could use two tracks to move one train on and one off or two on or two off the layout.
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#17
MasonJar Wrote:
steinjr Wrote:Your reefer looks good. Just to be certain - by dry brushing you mean putting just a little paint on your brush, and then wiping off most of that immediately, before you apply the brush to your model ? Or do you mean something else in this context ?

Stein

Thanks! Yes, I mean the regular/traditional method of dry brushing. Nearly no paint on the brush, and lots of quick, light strokes to apply what paint is there... This avoids drips, streaks, brushmarks, and obscuring details. I guess the one difference would be if you happen to get too much paint on one stroke it really doesn't matter too much. You just keep working it until all the paint is spread out.

Good luck! Hope that helps.

Andrew

I see. Here is a closeup shots that shows details from my second attempt above a little better:

[Image: front.jpg]

I feel like the thing I struggled most with for my second attempt wasn't really with obscured details, although there aboviously still is room for plenty of improvement in those respects, too.

The thing I really struggled with while brush painting was getting a sharp enough line between the two colors in my white stripe on red engine pattern.

I'll take another shot tomorrow at those stripes using a brush with very little paint, better burnishing of masking tape like Wayne described above, and trying to run the brush away from the masked side, so there is less chance of anything getting under the tape.

Btw - the engine shell I am painting is a throwaway thing - an old shell I am using to practice on - I won't start on my actual engines until I feel I can do a job that will look somewhat passable at 12-15" distance. I suspect there is quite a few more test runs before I am anywhere even in viewing distance of that point Goldth


After looking at some more prototype pics (and based on advice from foulrift) I have also taken apart the top of my coal barge to redo the steel plates around the hatch - to move them in on the sides (creating move deck space outside the hatch), make them lower, and to create some triangular "gussets" along the hatch edge for "reinforcement".

Prototype pics:
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...geid=76889
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...geid=77011

I think I also will repaint it flat black (I got a spray can of flat black). I guess my original attempt with battleship grey is not a sensible color for a barge that will be filled with coal - even with an attempt to add a little "coal dust" (using weathering powders).

[Image: barge.jpg]

Oh well, you try, and then you try again, and then you try again and so on and so forth - eventually there will be a keeper.

Grin,
Stein
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#18
Russ Bellinis Wrote:Stein, it looks really good. Switching is my favorite part of model operations, so I really like your layout. As I looked at your track plan,and your plans for cassettes to move trains on and off the layout, it occurred to me that the barge dock just begs for a car float loading dock at the end of that barge dock track. That way you load a train on a cassette, put the cassette on a cart that is at the correct height to have the track line up. You then roll the cart into the end of the dock, and run the train onto the layout or remove another train the same way. If there is a switch on the end of the cassette, you could use two tracks to move one train on and one off or two on or two off the layout.

Hi Russ --

I did consider a car float in an earlier version of the plan. I like car floats. And if I had done a layout based in e.g. NYC or by the great lakes or a few other places, I definitely would have tried for a car float.

But a car float doesn't make sense for Minneapolis - the river was good for bulk transport that was not time-critical, but you would not save time floating cars across the Mississippi when there were a ton of bridges spanning the river and you would not save time floating cars downstream when there were railroad tracks running down along the river.

The cassette where it is now represents both "points east" (when entering the cassette counterclockwise) or "points west" (when entering the cassette clockwise). I can also prestage two transfer jobs "on the layout" (ie not on the cassette) - one on the "mainline" to the left of the door (second track from the wall) and one on the curved mainline to the right of the door. Or just let a train circle round and round the layout and use the cassette as bridge.

As it is now, it is not very scenic - so I might just take it down while running the layout in a point to point fashion. Will have to experiment a little to see how it works out. But I would like to get more of my buildings and scenery in place before doing more on the cassette.

Smile,
Stein
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#19
steinjr Wrote:The thing I really struggled with while brush painting was getting a sharp enough line between the two colors in my white stripe on red engine pattern.

I'll take another shot tomorrow at those stripes using a brush with very little paint, better burnishing of masking tape like Wayne described above, and trying to run the brush away from the masked side, so there is less chance of anything getting under the tape.

Doing the masking in the way Wayne recommended in his old post, and trying dry brushing to avoid leaks under the masking tape seems to work reasonably well:

Yesterday's attempt:
[Image: edge_old.jpg]

Today's attempt:
[Image: edge_new.jpg]



steinjr Wrote:After looking at some more prototype pics (and based on advice from foulrift) I have also taken apart the top of my coal barge to redo the steel plates around the hatch - to move them in on the sides (creating move deck space outside the hatch), make them lower, and to create some triangular "gussets" along the hatch edge for "reinforcement".

Prototype pics:
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...geid=76889
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...geid=77011

I think I also will repaint it flat black (I got a spray can of flat black). I guess my original attempt with battleship grey is not a sensible color for a barge that will be filled with coal - even with an attempt to add a little "coal dust" (using weathering powders).

[Image: barge.jpg]

Here is the changed coal barge. At least the shape is a little closer to the prototype picture. Color looks extremely dark in the photo, not quite as stark in person.

Still - I might just go back to gray as the basic color and try for black wash over the gray and some rust.

[Image: barge_new.jpg]

Smile,
Stein
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#20
Hi Stein,

I like the rework on the barge. The triangular gussets area nice touch. I think its great you are consulting historical phtoos from the Twin cities area as inspiration. As for color I found a photo of what is probably a more contemporary St. Paul area barge but it has similar enough lines to yours. Seems to be a red oxide color. Whatever color you chose rust and grime will be certainly add to the patina! Smile
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sjmurrayphoto.com/images/053006%20barge.jpg">http://www.sjmurrayphoto.com/images/053006%20barge.jpg</a><!-- m -->

Ralph
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#21
Stein,

The new paint job shows HUGE improvements Thumbsup Thumbsup

And i agree with Ralph, nice work on the barge Thumbsup Thumbsup
Josh Mader

Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
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#22
Ralph Wrote:Hi Stein,

I like the rework on the barge. The triangular gussets area nice touch. I think its great you are consulting historical phtoos from the Twin cities area as inspiration. As for color I found a photo of what is probably a more contemporary St. Paul area barge but it has similar enough lines to yours. Seems to be a red oxide color. Whatever color you chose rust and grime will be certainly add to the patina! Smile
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sjmurrayphoto.com/images/053006%20barge.jpg">http://www.sjmurrayphoto.com/images/053006%20barge.jpg</a><!-- m -->

Ralph

Brilliant ! Color is one of those things that is not easy to get from black and white photos Goldth

I have already reprimed the barge with gray spray. I'll try some red/browish for the sides and brown/yellowish for the deck tomorrow - it needs to dry properly, and I need to sand off a spot where I got too much primer before I repaint.

Btw - I went back and looked at some more of the pictures on the website you linked to - that guy (Steve Murray) is a talented photographer !

Thank you very much!

Smile,
Stein
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#23
I'm not familiar with barge traffic on the Mississippi River. Out here in So Cal we have a company that loads trucks and trailers, mostly semi trailers, on barges to haul goods to Santa Catalina Island. they take loaded trailers over and bring back the empties. The next day they repeat the process, or it may be every other day they run over. Do they put rail cars on barges on the Mississippi to move to another port up or down the river? Would loaded rail cars be put on a barge in St Louis for example to go to Minneapolis, or is everything break bulk loading?
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#24
Russ Bellinis Wrote:I'm not familiar with barge traffic on the Mississippi River. Out here in So Cal we have a company that loads trucks and trailers, mostly semi trailers, on barges to haul goods to Santa Catalina Island. they take loaded trailers over and bring back the empties. The next day they repeat the process, or it may be every other day they run over. Do they put rail cars on barges on the Mississippi to move to another port up or down the river? Would loaded rail cars be put on a barge in St Louis for example to go to Minneapolis, or is everything break bulk loading?

Well. I can't say I have ever seen anything about taking rail cars up or downriver from Minneapolis by carfloats. But they did have quite a few different kinds of interesting barges back in the 1930s, 40s and 50s:

Grain (in the background - sliding covers): http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...eid=102086
(I am not sure what the closest barge is carrying - maybe some kind of machinery or crates or some such thing)

Coal: http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...geid=76889

Oil: http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...eid=151380

Shipping containers: http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...eid=163371

Btw - it just struck me that you may only see half my plan, since the forum truncates some pictures - here is a link directly to the plan:

http://home.online.no/~steinjr/trains/mo...ouse40.jpg

Smile,
Stein
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#25
steinjr Wrote:
steinjr Wrote:After looking at some more prototype pics (and based on advice from foulrift) I have also taken apart the top of my coal barge to redo the steel plates around the hatch - to move them in on the sides (creating move deck space outside the hatch), make them lower, and to create some triangular "gussets" along the hatch edge for "reinforcement".

Prototype pics:
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...geid=76889
http://collections.mnhs.org/visualresour...geid=77011

I think I also will repaint it flat black (I got a spray can of flat black). I guess my original attempt with battleship grey is not a sensible color for a barge that will be filled with coal - even with an attempt to add a little "coal dust" (using weathering powders).

[Image: barge.jpg]

Here is the changed coal barge. At least the shape is a little closer to the prototype picture. Color looks extremely dark in the photo, not quite as stark in person.

Still - I might just go back to gray as the basic color and try for black wash over the gray and some rust.

[Image: barge_new.jpg]

Following an color image from Ralph showing that barges may actually have been more oxide red in color, I tried this repaint - it may need another coat of paint and some weathering:

[Image: barge_red.jpg]

Comments or suggestions ?

Smile,
Stein
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#26
Stein, you were right I did only see 1/2 of your layout. It looks like it would be a fun layout to operate.
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#27
I like the new color of the barge, and if you were to leave it with only one coat, it would seem that it has seen many hard years of work, of coarse, you could always give it another coat to completely cover it, then weather it yourself as well Misngth
Josh Mader

Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
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#28
Trucklover Wrote:I like the new color of the barge, and if you were to leave it with only one coat, it would seem that it has seen many hard years of work, of coarse, you could always give it another coat to completely cover it, then weather it yourself as well Misngth

You are right. I'll just leave it like it is for now. Well, time to get going on the last Christmas preparations - any more modell railroading will have to wait until December 26th or so.

Merry Christmas, people!

Smile,
Stein
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#29
The barge is looking good Stein!
Enjoy the Christmas preparations! Merry Christmas to you too!
Ralph
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#30
It's been fairly slow going model-wise over Christmas.

After a couple of false starts where I just had to stop and wash down the model before starting over again, I have finally gotten a halfway decent start on painting a couple of switchers (a GE 44-tonner and a GE 70-tonner) in Omaha Road colors (which in 1957 was basically C&NW yellow and black, with the C&NW herald, plus lettering for the Omaha Road).

Example prototype switcher from cnwhs.org:
http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/albums...8-1958.jpg

Switchers primed with Tamiya white primer:
[Image: primed.jpg]

Switcher sprayed with a couple of coats of yellow:
[Image: ge-paint.jpg]

Plan now is to wait at least 24 hours for the paint to cure - preferably wait a whole week, if I can muster the patience for it, to allow the yellow paint to cure, and then mask the sides of the engine from the walkways up to the horizontal line across near the top of the hoods, and mask V-stripes across the front and rear, before spraying over a little yellow to seal the edges of the tape, let it dry and then spray with black to get a black top, cab, top stripe on hoods, walkways, railings etc.

By that time, hopefully the C&NW heralds etc I ordered before Xmas will be here, so I can let the black cure, spray with glosscote, decal, weather, spray with dullcote, clean the mask off the windows again and so on and so forth.

Still far to go on these switchers. But at least it feels like I have gotten a little start on them.

Btw - if one of the moderators should want to move this thread over to the layouts forum, then that probably would be a good idea.

Smile,
Stein
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