doctorwayne Wrote:The interest in trains has been with me at least back to when I was three years old. The real ones, steam at first, were right across the street from our front door.
So did you have trains when you were a kid? And have you had layouts for most of your life? Or did you return to the hobby in your adult years?
doctorwayne Wrote:In reality, a separate structure for the layout (even if we go ahead and build another house) is impractical, cost-wise, as it would require both heating and cooling, neither of which are needed in the basement.
Yes, but one man's "impractical" is another man's "let's do it!" After all, isn't the entire hobby rather "impractical"?
I talked about the heating-cooling issue with my AC guy, and he said it would be most cost effective to get a wall unit and build it in. I've been doing some research, and one that will heat/cool 800 sq ft costs around $600. Of course, the electricity to run it is what adds up.
doctorwayne Wrote:if I ever build a totally new layout, it will be an example of "less is more", with less track (figuratively speaking) but longer runs between towns, and fewer towns.
I've been thinking that way for my extra shelving that my building will allow. I'm not really modeling towns, I'm more or less doing something like the Empire and Modesto or the LAJ, with a heavy dose of the flavor of the industrial parks south of Houston. I may not add many more industries than what I have on the existing shelves... I'll just put some distance between the interchanges and more open country similar to what is down here.
Took me a day and a half to cut the rafters to length, install the lookouts, and put on the subfascia. I never would have thought it would take so long. Of course, working by myself added to the time required. Up and down the ladder a thousand times. Installing "cripples" to hold up the end of a long board while worked on the other end. All that kind of stuff. But anyway, it is ready for the roof deck!
30% chance of rain tomorrow. We'll see what happens.
Yesterday, I cut all the rafter ends off. At first, I was working off a ladder, dragging it through the mud, then I climb on it and the legs would sink, ugh, it was taking forever. Then I finally "smarted up," realizing that I had a lot of work to do at the sub-fascia level. So, I built some staging that I could walk on and do the work. Sped me up tremendously.
Here is the sub-fascia in progress.
Lookouts installed which will support the subfascia up the rakes.
Here are the girls giving me a Christmas present. They carried 43 sheets of plywood out to the building, a sheet at a time. They decided to just carry it instead of using the wheelbarrow.
And here it is ready for the roof deck.
I also put in 3/8 threaded rods, washers, nuts through the beam/post connections. Then I changed out all the little drywall screws I had used in the joist hangers. Replaced them with beefier deck screws. I'm glad we had the "nail versus screw" discussion here, because when I was removing the drywall screws, about 5% were broken, or the head broke off when I was taking them out! Here is the drywall screw and the replacement:
Wish me some good weather for tomorrow. Talk to y'all later!
Gary
Gary, this is probably obvious to you, but I mention it just in case you haven't thought of it. If you insulate your building in the walls as well as the roof, the a/c will work less, use less electricity, and the temp will stay more comfortable. You could use one of those high tech electronic thermostats, but I prefer a manual one that is a dual heat & a/c, myself. Set your temps to be comfortable to you when operating, and then when you leave, set the a/c to 80 degrees, and the heat to 65. That way the heater and a/c run a minimum of time, but you don't risk finding models warped from the hot weather when you return to the train building after a hot day. If you are putting in a ceiling so that the building has an attic, an attic mounted exhaust vent will help too. They even have exhaust fans for the attic that are solar powered.
My house is about 1100 square feet, and has cost me as much as 250 dollars per month to keep at 80 degrees Fahrenheit. But, there are a few differences between my house and your train room: 1) that month it averaged about 115 degrees outside; 2) my house was built in 1950 and had no insulation at the time; 3) I have windows. SInce your building lacks windows, you should be able to insulate it pretty well and keep heating/air conditioning costs down. Even as I type this, I can feel the cool air sinking off my living room window.
-- Kevin
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Russ, great minds think alike. Your thoughts are pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
The building will have an attic. I was planning in putting in a "through the roof" vent fan that has an adjustable thermostat. I already have one like that in my well house. I actually did see one of the solar powered ones the other day, Didn't look at the cost, but thought "What a neat idea!"
If you have other ideas, be sure to let me know. Please don't assume I already thought of something.
Nachoman, you're right, windows can be an issue. I guess some of the new double pane energy efficient ones are good, but the older single pane windows let in the outside temp something fierce. The building will be well insulated for sure. And as Russ mentioned, I'll adjust the temp on the AC/heat to not run as much unless I am in the building.
Put up most of the roof decking today. Tomorrow I will finish up the decking, then install the fascia, then tarpaper the roof, and do the drip edge. Sounds like I should be able to accomplish that. However..... I thought I was going to be at this point 4 days ago!
So far we have eight 10 to 12 hour days invested in this... way over my estimate. If I was a house builder, a $150,000 house would cost $300,000! Now, a lot of the time, I have been working by myself, and sometimes it seems to take 4 times longer than if I had an extra set of hands.
Gary S Wrote:If you have other ideas, be sure to let me know. Please don't assume I already thought of something.
Thanks!
If you're planning on insulating the ceiling, don't forget to use a vapour barrier before you install the drywall on the ceiling, and the same goes for the walls.
Also, if you want your attic insulation to give you the maximum benefit, don't forget to provide ample ventilation in your soffit and an equal capacity at or near the ridge - it's better to have too much rather than not enough.
I built a 16X38 building in my back yard in August to October 1988. I insulated all walls and ceilings on both floors. When temperatures are in the high 90s, the bottom is about 80 or so with no A/C. A small window unit keeps it comfotably cool. If I leave it on low or medium, it stays that way. Upstairs, it is much hotter, but a bit larger window unit, left on medium-low keeps it very comfortable after it is once cooled.
I've just about got everything moved downstairs now. I can still get up and down the stairs, but with a lot more difficulty than when I built it. I use electric heaters in the winter, but only when I'm out there.
So you can see, insulation in every place truly pays off, comfort-wise and penny-wise.
Gary:
Just a thought, have you considered putting in skylights?? aka Solar Tubes. solar tubes let in natural light, and if installed correctly, won't let any heat in. I know you probably don't have much need for heating!!
I only know what I know, and I don't understand very much of it, either.
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Another day in the books. My wife helped me all day long and we accomplished alot. Finished the roof decking and tied up the loose ends up there, made sure everything is ready for tar paper. Fixed some of the bubbles and bad spots in the plywood... yeah... brand new plywood and a few of the sheets were pitiful. Warped plys, bubbles, and missing plys in spots too.
Then we put on the hardiplank fascia. Then we put on some more sheets of the plywood on the walls. I got to thinking that with all the weight on the roof now, we better put some more on the walls to help hold things together.
Supposed to be good weather tomorrow, so I will take one more day off from work and get the tarpaper and drip edge on.
Photos:
This pic should have been in my last post above - I put in the wrong pic and didn't even see it. This is from yesterday evening.
Here, the roof decking is complete and we are installing the hardiplank fascia on the rakes.
Fascia all around and a few more sheets of plywood on the walls:
A pic inside the building
And a view from the end. I haven't been taking many pics from other angles becasue the yard is just too muddy to walk in!
doctorwayne Wrote:If you're planning on insulating the ceiling, don't forget to use a vapour barrier before you install the drywall on the ceiling, and the same goes for the walls. Also, if you want your attic insulation to give you the maximum benefit, don't forget to provide ample ventilation in your soffit and an equal capacity at or near the ridge - it's better to have too much rather than not enough.
EDIT----- see next post!
Down here in the south, it seems typical to either use that sprayed on cellulose stuff in the walls, or they use fiberglass batting that is completely enclosed in plastic, sort of like a pillow in a pillowcase. I'll do the latter I think. I haven't seen anyone actually stretch a big piece of plastic across the studs. How is it typically done up north? They actually stretch a big sheet of vapor barrier on the inside and staple it to the studs before the sheetrock goes on?
For the soffit vents, I will use the pre-vented hardiplank soffit sheets. Have you seen those? I'm not using a ridge vent per se, although that is what is on my house. I'm planning on using a powered vent fan near the ridge line. I'll have to check the manufacturer's info and see just how much attic space the fan is designed for to make sure I have enough.
Oops... Wayne... I misread your comments. You were talking about the ceiling. We usually use the fiberglass batting that has kraft (?) paper on one side which acts as the vapor barrier. It is installed with the paper down against the sheetrock. So again, up north, do they usually stretch plastic across the ceiling joists before the sheetrock?
sgtcarl1 Wrote:Gary:
Just a thought, have you considered putting in skylights?? aka Solar Tubes. solar tubes let in natural light, and if installed correctly, won't let any heat in. I know you probably don't have much need for heating!!
We were discussing the soalrtubes. Seems like a really nice product. Only thing is, alot of my time out in the building we be at night... work all day, play at night kind of thing. So not sure if the solartubes would be a real advantage. But if I ever build a new house, I an seriously going to try to use them.
yellowlynn Wrote:I built a 16X38 building in my back yard in August to October 1988. I insulated all walls and ceilings on both floors. When temperatures are in the high 90s, the bottom is about 80 or so with no A/C. A small window unit keeps it comfotably cool. If I leave it on low or medium, it stays that way. Upstairs, it is much hotter, but a bit larger window unit, left on medium-low keeps it very comfortable after it is once cooled.
I've just about got everything moved downstairs now. I can still get up and down the stairs, but with a lot more difficulty than when I built it. I use electric heaters in the winter, but only when I'm out there.
So you can see, insulation in every place truly pays off, comfort-wise and penny-wise.
Lynn
Lynn, that is a nice building! Is your layout in there? And the upstairs bascially doubles the space of the building. I feel for your "up the stairs with a lot more duifficulty now"! I'll be 50 next May, and my knees are getting really bad. I have been doing some suffering going up and down the ladders. You can see my knee brace in some of the photos. Probably will get a knee replacement sometime in 2010. So, that is why my house and everything else is one story!
Did you put those shingles on the upper sides? That is steep!
I'll definitely insulate as much as I can. The well/storage building we built (well insulated) stays considerably cooler than the outside temp in summer.
